Tires and Tuning

Discussion in 'GT6 Tuning' started by Racin510s, Oct 5, 2017.

  1. Racin510s

    Racin510s Premium

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    I did a search about tires and only found one thread response about tires. As a beginner tuner I've noticed that some tuners state "sports hard to sport softs". The same type answer about Comfort and Racing tires. I was reading the November issue of Motor Trend where 12 cars were tested hot lapping Laguna Seca and had a drag race with all 12 at an Air Force base. The results were listed and there were several tire choices from Bridgestones, Michelins, Goodyear to Pirellies. The Michelin Sport Cup II being the tire with the best traction with Pirelli P Zeros a close second. Here is the only result I found about tires in GT6.
    GT6 .............. Real World
    Race Soft = Pure fantasy
    Race Med = Pure fantasy
    Race Hard = The softest qualifying tire imaginable
    Sports Soft = Race Soft Slick
    Sports Med = Race Med Slick
    Sports Hard = Race Hard Slick or Soft Track Day tire for street cars
    Comfort Soft = Soft Sports Tire or Semi Slick
    Comfort Medium = Soft Street Tire
    Comfort Hard = Your Average Street Tire

    For every hot car I've had I have used Pirelli, Yokohama and Michelins. All 3 once they have warmed up seem to have close to the same grip when driving on the street or an autocross in a big parking lot and a few track days that I was fortunate to be able to run. I'd really appreciate a response from any tuner that has also raced in real life events like the SCCA or someone that has worked in a tire store that has the experience to make an educated statement. How is the choice of tires directly related to the tune? Please let me know what you think or have experienced. Thanks in advance.

    BTW If there is a thread that has already discussed this topic please post the link or to the Moderators move my post to the proper place.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2017
  2. Bowtie-muscle

    Bowtie-muscle

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    Shalom!
    You being up an interesting and complicated question, in my opinion anyway. I somewhat disagree with that chart of tire compounds. I do agree that RS tires are fantasy, as were the old Super Softs, but I believe that RM tires are soft qualifying tire, and RH are likely meant to be long lasting racing tire. But after that, it is unclear and very foggy.
    Being in the business, I install tires, so know something about it. I have had to opportunity to install Soft Street tires on a ZR1, these were basically track tires that you could use for road use. But you would not want to get caught in any rain with them on. These would be, in my opinion either SS, or better yet, Sport Super Soft. If you were to but a 2017 Grand Sport or Z06, they come with Michelin "Summer only" tires. These would be somewhere between SM and SS tires. They average high priced sports car would come from the factory with, according to traction rating on the sidewalk of any tire, SM tires. Your average sports tire would then be SH. I myself prefer Goodyear tires, and remember the old GT+4 Eagles that came factory on my old Beretta. They did not have long life for most people due to driving habits, but I got really good life out of them. They were what would be In game SH I guess.
    BUT, your average street car tire is meant to last longer and give better fuel mileage. These are your CS tires. All weather tires, giving just enough grip to keep you out of trouble unless you drive reckless. Really cheap tires, will come with a lower traction rating and would be CM tires. YOU REALLY WOULD NOT want to go to a track day with these. In my opinion, CH tires are also completely fantasy, as they would not be safe for anything other than city driving.
    In my opinion, adding extra power is great, but if you can not transfer it to the asphalt, what good is it. Tires make a huge difference, and are also part of suspension tuning as they themselves have a spring rate. Lower profile tires have less give and flex and therefore give better handling. Why would Ferrari put CS or SH tires on a car? They would not make the car handle any better and you would be better off buying something cheaper that you could ACTUALLY drive and keep on the road.
    So, that was long winded and I'm sure some will completely disagree, that's ok. It's my opinion.
    As for tuning in game, I am all about grip. So I prefer SS tires on everything, but 500pp and less I will use SH as they are good enough for the power the cars will typically have. 400pp I will use CS tires, and never anything under unless for drifting which I am terrible at. I tend to leave racing tires for race cars or for high powered cards 600pp and over.
    Again, these are just my thoughts and my opinion. But in the end, this is a game and "I" approach it as such. More grip, meaning Sports Soft tires, is how "I" enjoy the game.
     
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  3. Racin510s

    Racin510s Premium

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    Shalom to you Bowtie,

    I completely agree with you. :tup: I have a friend that owns a tire store and shop and I had asked him about tire compounds. He doesn't play video games, but his knowledge of tires and their compound was very helpful. I didn't agree with the chart either. The reason I asked what is a subjective and complicated question is I'm learning to tune. I'm a former race car driver in the SCCA and know how crucial tires are not only on a race car but a street car too. When I tune I always use +1 or +2 if they are available. The lower profile giving much better grip than the standard tire that came on the car stock. Your comparisons of the different tires is very direct and true. I would never put a comfort tire on any car I own.

    When PD puts out new seasonals and limit choice of tires especially comfort tires it really ticks me off. I can deal with a SH tire but would much prefer SS or SM. The grip level of the tire in combo with suspension setups can make a good tune a bad tune. Likewise it can make a bad tune usable if SM or SS are available to use. So IMHO your explanation is right on the spot. I too would prefer SS on any car I'm tuning or running in an event. I agree with your PP thoughts as well. I am very grateful for your response and the time you invested in it.:tup::tup::tup: People like you are the reason :gtplanet: is the best community on the net.:cheers:

    Shalom v kol tov, ( peace and be well)
    Barnabas
     
  4. Rinsky

    Rinsky Premium

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    I'm almost positive that the +1 & +2 wheel size in GT6 is cosmetic only. I have yet to notice any changes in tuning by changing wheel size. However Im far from custom tuning every car in the game so if you find one that it changes on please let me know what car its on because I would like to play around with it.
     
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  5. Bowtie-muscle

    Bowtie-muscle

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    C7 Stingray, only +1 available, but it does change things.
     
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  6. Rinsky

    Rinsky Premium

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    Very interesting. Thanks for the info I'll check that out.
     
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  7. Racin510s

    Racin510s Premium

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    @Rinsky. As Bowtie said it does make a difference. I'm a sophomore at tuning in GT6 and still learning. For the Muscle Car event I used +2 on the 427 Cobra. I first tried the setup as it was and the car was ok but felt mushy. I messed around with the tune, springs, toe, and ARB. It was a good tune but it was missing something. So I put +2 wheels on it and then it was so tight I had to go back to the original tune undo all of the changes I made. I test every car that I drive in Test Drive before ever going to the event. I made only 2 changes to the tune.

    You asked about what cars, I have used either +1 or +2 on every American car in my garage. Just as @Bowtie-muscle stated above about the C7 Vette it does change how the car drives just like it would in real life. I can't say that it makes a difference on every car that has the option. I suggest you try it. Pick a car that has the option and let me know and I'll try to give you a tune that hasn't been touched. Put the tune on the car, don't change the wheels. Pick a track and put Sports Hard on it for tires. Run as many laps as you like and record your lap times. Let me know if you have a specific issue with the tune, like understeer or oversteer. Then do +1 first and record your lap time. See if the car handles to same. Do the same for the +2. The one thing that is very important is the tune should not have the ride height set to low. We can go on from there.
     
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  8. Rinsky

    Rinsky Premium

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    Im glad you two finally found out that +1 & +2 wheels will change the handling on some cars. This will definitely change my approach on tuning.
    After reading all the tuning guides and none of them saying for sure if it changed anything or not, then testing it out for myself on my favorite car in the game Ferrari 365 GTB4 '71 and noticed no difference in handling or lap times so I really just never gave it much thought again.
    Thanks again for sharing this information.
     
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  9. Rinsky

    Rinsky Premium

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    https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/resources/nissan-fairlady-z-300zx-twinturbo-z32-89.6297/


    Above is my first posted tune and I would really like to have you two look it over and give me your thoughts. I test at Circuito de la Sierra because it has a good mix of everything from high and low speed turns, jumps and small sideway jumps, high speed strights, chicanes and not much room for errors. 500PP is my favorite class and thats where my focus on tuning is right now using Production Cars only on Sport Soft tires with a controller and Automatic Transmission. The brake system in this car is sub par at best so my focus was getting the most out of mid corner and corner exit speed since you can't rush into corners with this car.

    I will try to explain the madness behind my tune for the Nissan Fairlady Z 300ZX TwinTurbo (z32) '89 at Circuito de la Sierra. This track possess all kinds of challenges mixed in one bag and car setups will be different here than a smooth race track. The car is definitely not one sought after in online racing or anywhere for that matter. Like most of the 80's cars in GT6 they just don't handle well and are hard to tune. Lets face it there are just mutch better handle cars in GT6 that make people skip over cars like this....plus Im a huge fan of 60's 70's 80's cars in the game and its a real challenge to tune some of them.

    1. First I set my Ride Hight and Springs for a smooth ride across rumble strips and airborne jumps keeping the car settled on the ground and in the air. Once this is the achieve everything eles is all about maximum traction and my adjustments to the Damper Compression Rear, Dampers Extension Front are a reflection of that.

    2. Next I moved on to the Toe angles. My Rear Toe angle was set positive for turn in and straight line grip of the rear tires and the Front Toe was set negative for slight oversteer and front end turn in grip.

    3. Next is the Camber and it can be tricky to set up at this track because of its many different challenges. The more Rear Camber thats added the less grip you have on a Rear Wheels and that is almost always a bad thing so finding that balance is not an easy task and why I have more camber added here than I would run on a race track. Example: take a look at the video below ( between 1:10 to 1:20 ) at first your car goes airborne over the hill then the road quickly turns left so at this point you must place your car all the way over to the left with two tires over the rumble strip as the car loses all the weight on its suspension and in some cases is airborne again in a downhill curve. If you're carrying any kind of speed when the car lands and the Camber angles Front and Rear are set to low the car will immediately start sliding until its off the road into the dirt and slams into the guardrail.
    If you have the Front Camber angle set to lets say 1.0 and very little to no Camber angle set on the Rear lets say between 0.0 and 0.5 then the cars Front will grab traction but the Rear will slide causing the car to start violently fishtailing or spin out of control immediately. By having both Front and Rear Camber angles set to 1.0 or higher the car then has enough grip to put the power down when the car lands even though all its weight transferred to the right side. The trade off is some rear wheel spin coming out of sharp low speed corners even with the LSD set very low.

    4.The 300ZX is not happy on late braking as its Brake System is sub par at best so you must scrub off alot of speed before you reach the corner and make your time back up putting the power back down mid corner through the corner exit. I also used some ballast here to keep the Front and Rear tires from glowing red so much. I also now run +2 wheels when its aloud for more grip.

    So that's a little run down on my tuning madness and I would really appreciate it if you two could look at it sometime and let me know what I've done right and what I need to improve and work on. Im really enjoying the tuning aspect of GT6 and I'm very eager to learn more.

     
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  10. Bowtie-muscle

    Bowtie-muscle

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    I will give it a try when I get a chance, might be a few days though as my schedule is hectic.
     
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  11. Rinsky

    Rinsky Premium

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    Take your time I'm in no rush at all.
     
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