To early braking

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Phoenixsui

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Switzerland
Switzerland
Hi Racers

How do you avoid to get in trouble when there is players who brake early by intension to signal you that they will soon brake.
Lets say normally you brake at 100m and this guy brakes at 130m but just a split second and then again at 100m. Forcing you to brake as well so you wont brake to late and push him out. But I find that irritating and it cost a lot of focus. And when in battle mode in the last laps you may dont expect that from him.
Also i have to look where he brakes instead of maybe a mark where i normally would brake.
When going in a close fields of 3+ cars i think you should not brake 30 meter earlier just to signal the guy behind you to brake.
Yesterday i accidentally pushed 1 out of a corner and he lost 4 places because he did that. We were going almost on qualiy laptimes the last laps and there is no room for such things when you are in front and the guys behind you also fight tightly for positions. Bumper on bumper racing only works when everybody goes the same speed and does no strange things.
Normally i brake 5-10m earlier than normal when close behind someone and just lapping and waiting for a misstake. But if this dude even brakes 30m earlier then what should i do? Is it even my fault when i bump him in this Situation? Should i let him come back in front of me after that?
I am currently in B S Rank races and these guys are mostly in 1-2 sec same lap times. So there is for me no reason to brake much to early when i see they all know the track and the brakepoints. Only in the very beginning of the race i brake this early. But thats what alsmost all do in lap 1 to avoid crashes.
What do you think? Is the one in the back always responsible to avoid the crash or maybe at some point also the guy in front who leads the group of cars?

See you on the Tracks ;)
 
Brake off the racing line. Either you’ll pass them to the apex or you can drop in behind them.

Double braking is a common technique by the way - particularly for FF and FWD cars - brake once in straight line to get some speed off, lift off brake and turn in to apex while braking lightly which gets FF/FWD cars to turn in better. So it’s not necessarily that the guy is brake checking you or even braking that early - his lap time might require that kind of braking.
 
i just simply sacrifice my lap time and stays out of the racing line, at least first time i have to brake behind a racer, if he brakes too early or do that "brake test" stuff, i'm safe of ramming him, most of times i even got advantage because my "late brake" ... after a couple corners if i see he brakes right i know i could stay behind him without worries.

maybe you could try that..
 
It's always your responsibility as the following car to avoid the contact. If you're not capable of covering the brake with your left foot (which massively reduces time spent to get on the brakes), you need to be off line in the braking zones.

If I'm following a car very closely, I'm constantly judging the skill of the driver in front. Does he hit the same brake points and apexes as I do corner after corner? Where does he brake earlier/later than I do? Can I trust him not to do something silly?

Even if I do trust the driver in front, if I'm not in position to pass him approaching a corner, I will lift earlier than I need to, and brake progressively rather than aggressively. As long as I hit the apex and get a solid exit I don't lose time to the car in front, but I pretty much take the risk of hitting him away completely.

RotorHed
Double braking is a common technique by the way - particularly for FF and FWD cars - brake once in straight line to get some speed off, lift off brake and turn in to apex while braking lightly which gets FF/FWD cars to turn in better. So it’s not necessarily that the guy is brake checking you or even braking that early - his lap time might require that kind of braking.
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That's not 'double braking'... what you're referring to is 'trail braking', and it's common in most motor sports.

Brake hard in straight line, at the turn in point start reducing brake pressure proportional to how much steering angle you have applied, and carry this to the apex... gradually reducing brake pressure as you apply more steering angle.
 
Stotty
That's not 'double braking'... what you're referring to is 'trail braking', and it's common in most motor sports.

Brake hard in straight line, at the turn in point start reducing brake pressure proportional to how much steering angle you have applied, and carry this to the apex... gradually reducing brake pressure as you apply more steering angle.
Click to expand...

Worth noting aswell that for those if us using the dual-shock, trail braking is hard to do and it frequently ends up being brake-off-brake - there is just not enough travel to be as progressive as I would like. I can see why it can be annoying if you are driving a car that suits brake-turn-go.
 
Askaroth
i just simply sacrifice my lap time and stays out of the racing line, at least first time i have to brake behind a racer, if he brakes too early or do that "brake test" stuff, i'm safe of ramming him, most of times i even got advantage because my "late brake" ... after a couple corners if i see he brakes right i know i could stay behind him without worries.

maybe you could try that..
Click to expand...
It is what i do as well. But some Players change that during the race. Maybe because you are getting closer to them and they start to scare you to bump them. And exactly when you are closer than before you shouldnt brake early in my opinion. But i know it is hard to trust in Multiplayer games ;). When you push at the end of a race you wont brake early when 3 cars are waiting to pass you as well.


RotorHed
Brake off the racing line. Either you’ll pass them to the apex or you can drop in behind them.

Double braking is a common technique by the way - particularly for FF and FWD cars - brake once in straight line to get some speed off, lift off brake and turn in to apex while braking lightly which gets FF/FWD cars to turn in better. So it’s not necessarily that the guy is brake checking you or even braking that early - his lap time might require that kind of braking.
Click to expand...

I know what you mean. But in my situation i mean 2 times braking in the straight. First soft and short and then hard.
 
Stotty
It's always your responsibility as the following car to avoid the contact. If you're not capable of covering the brake with your left foot (which massively reduces time spent to get on the brakes), you need to be off line in the braking zones.

If I'm following a car very closely, I'm constantly judging the skill of the driver in front. Does he hit the same brake points and apexes as I do corner after corner? Where does he brake earlier/later than I do? Can I trust him not to do something silly?

Even if I do trust the driver in front, if I'm not in position to pass him approaching a corner, I will lift earlier than I need to, and brake progressively rather than aggressively. As long as I hit the apex and get a solid exit I don't lose time to the car in front, but I pretty much take the risk of hitting him away completely.



That's not 'double braking'... what you're referring to is 'trail braking', and it's common in most motor sports.

Brake hard in straight line, at the turn in point start reducing brake pressure proportional to how much steering angle you have applied, and carry this to the apex... gradually reducing brake pressure as you apply more steering angle.
Click to expand...

2 things

1) no it’s not just on the driver behind to avoid contact. The rules are quite clear about the requirements on drivers - the leading driver is not allowed to drive in a way that causes a collision and neither is the driver behind.

2) I know what Kind of braking I meant thanks - my description is accurate.
 
RotorHed
2 things

1) no it’s not just on the driver behind to avoid contact. The rules are quite clear about the requirements on drivers - the leading driver is not allowed to drive in a way that causes a collision and neither is the driver behind.

2) I know what Kind of braking I meant thanks - my description is accurate.
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1) Drive by your 'rules', and you'll continue to moan/whine when you get penalties.

2) Sorry, but you are wrong. One application of brakes. One application of throttle... basic track driving v1.01

The only time someone would brake, release the brakes, then brake again is if they braked too early in the 1st place... otherwise you're just causing unnecessary weight transfers and unbalancing the car.
 
Easy one, don't stay too close behind someone when approaching a corner: the driver in front maybe believes you want to push him out, which make him brake earlier. Go a bit on the side and try to overtake if really he brakes early.
 
Stotty
1) Drive by your 'rules', and you'll continue to moan/whine when you get penalties.

2) Sorry, but you are wrong. One application of brakes. One application of throttle... basic track driving v1.01

The only time someone would brake, release the brakes, then brake again is if they braked too early in the 1st place... otherwise you're just causing unnecessary weight transfers and unbalancing the car.
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I haven’t whined or moaned about penalties - I think you should be careful making assumptions about people.

As for braking, your 101 is true for convenient classroom scenarios.
 
RotorHed
As for braking, your 101 is true for convenient classroom scenarios.
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The 1-1 track tuition I had with Sean Edwards (RIP) at Donnington some years ago would dispute this is a simply a classroom technique...

1. One application of brakes, from brake point to apex, reducing brake pressure proportional to steering angle and decreasing speed
2. One application of throttle, from apex to exit point, increasing throttle as lock is reduced

The basic fundamentals of managing corner entry and exit.
 
it's a matter of consistency. each driver has his own driving line. it's perfectly fine to brake early as long as you follow your driving line and not trying to brake check your opponent. on the contrary you are not allowed to ram a car in front of you just because your braking point is not reached yet.
 
If I'm in front, I chose my own braking point. It's up to others around me to change their braking point, or their line, to suit.

When "push to pass" is so prevalent in many real racing series, is it any wonder many virtual racers do the same?
 
vonMarshall
Worth noting aswell that for those if us using the dual-shock, trail braking is hard to do and it frequently ends up being brake-off-brake - there is just not enough travel to be as progressive as I would like. I can see why it can be annoying if you are driving a car that suits brake-turn-go.
Click to expand...
This is false, for me at least. I trail brake all the time in Gr3 with a DS4. But I come from a motorcycle background where you get nowhere if you don't do it on track. Natural behaviour for me. Same fingers different hand lol
 
I tend to brake earlier than most with my driving style which obviously causes issues when overzealous racers are behind me. I try to brake with a relatively gradual application of the brakes rather than just immediately stomping on them. That way, drivers behind me have adequate warning that I'm going to slow. If they want to try and go around me, they have time to move over and do so but if they don't, they also have time to react and get onto their brakes.
 
Askaroth
i just simply sacrifice my lap time and stays out of the racing line, at least first time i have to brake behind a racer, if he brakes too early or do that "brake test" stuff, i'm safe of ramming him, most of times i even got advantage because my "late brake" ... after a couple corners if i see he brakes right i know i could stay behind him without worries.

maybe you could try that..
Click to expand...

What he said.

I cannot recall a time when I'm following someone that I don't let off the gas or brake earlier than I normally do when following a slower racer.
 
demeaning pie
What he said.

I cannot recall a time when I'm following someone that I don't let off the gas or brake earlier than I normally do when following a slower racer.
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i meant sacrifice my general performance, obviously i cant talk about lap times if i'm following a slower racer, my mistake.
 
if it's my first time braking behind the guy I angle outside off of the brake line so that I'll miss him and go to the outside if he brakes short. once I know where they brake then I can get more exacting with where I am.

What I don't do though, is brake late to the inside of the brake line and barge pass him, because I'll probably get clipped by him as he attacks the apex. Once I know their tendencies then I can possibly brake to the inside if I think I can make It through fast enough and not get clipped... but that usually happens against late brakers who don't have enough traction to stick to the inside.
 
I'm in the "lift slightly before the guy in front brakes" camp. I get more time to react to any shenanigans up front, I can brake at my own pace instead of having to slam on the brakes and hope to miss his bumper and it give me a clearer view of what line he's taking so I can line up my exit and get around if it's safe to do so. It's probably also easier on the guy behind as my bumper isn't filling his windshield as fast either. :)

As has been said a couple times, the lead driver is entitled to their line, their speed, etc. It's up to you to avoid the contact and find a way around when appropriate. Late braking to the apex is usually not the best way to go in my experience. You end up too fast for the line and end up cutting across everyone behind on your way into the grass/wall/etc. Easier and safer to brake early, line up a late apex and get on the throttle earlier than the guy in front and pass after the corner. Most people I'm racing against just aren't paying attention to their surroundings mid-corner which is where you get all the contact from.
 
One thing I have noticed is the rear view mirror when using 'bumper cam'... It makes following cars look a lot further away than they really are.

Gives the person in front the impression their lead is much bigger than it really is.
 
Stotty
One thing I have noticed is the rear view mirror when using 'bumper cam'... It makes following cars look a lot further away than they really are.

Gives the person in front the impression their lead is much bigger than it really is.
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Agreed. Need an "object in mirror blah blah blah" decal on it. :D

I also feel the radar feature is a bit too tight to be useful, unless I just haven't figured out how to zoom out.
 
If the guy in front is also trailing another competitor close by it is to be expected that he will brake a few meters earlier. U cant or should not brake at the same spot as always when your 1-4m behind someone, especially if u are not sure where his brake points are yet. Maybe he brakes a bit earlier and you will have no time and control left to react, also the loss of downforce impacts your own braking power and distance.

When following another car close by do a small lift before braking or brake a little early to give room to react or choose another line so contact will be avoided if he brakes early.
 
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RotorHed
Brake off the racing line. Either you’ll pass them to the apex or you can drop in behind them.

Double braking is a common technique by the way - particularly for FF and FWD cars - brake once in straight line to get some speed off, lift off brake and turn in to apex while braking lightly which gets FF/FWD cars to turn in better. So it’s not necessarily that the guy is brake checking you or even braking that early - his lap time might require that kind of braking.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I do it fairly often with those cars otherwise they just won't turn in.
 
Phoenixsui
It is what i do as well. But some Players change that during the race. Maybe because you are getting closer to them and they start to scare you to bump them. And exactly when you are closer than before you shouldnt brake early in my opinion. But i know it is hard to trust in Multiplayer games ;). When you push at the end of a race you wont brake early when 3 cars are waiting to pass you as well.



I know what you mean. But in my situation i mean 2 times braking in the straight. First soft and short and then hard.
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You should definetly brake a little earlier or lift a little if you are not attempting a pass or you are in risk of hitting them and it will likely be your fault. No matter what point in the race. If theres car behind adjust your line to keep them from passing you if needed but they as well should brake or lift earlier or they would be taking the same unnecesarry risk.
 
Another vote for lift-brake when following. It might even make you faster.

The following driver has to be hyper-focused at all times. Last night a driver braked in front of me on the straight-it didn't seem like a brake check, more like scrubbing off a penalty. If I wasn't alert, I would have rear-ended him. Instead, free pass!

Yes it would have been better if they moved off the racing line first. I've been there though-didn't realize I had a penalty and slammed the brakes in a panic to get rid of it. Stupid but not intentional.

I'm not erratic in the braking zones, but my performance can be uneven. There are a lot of factors. Track knowledge, amount of practice, and controller/wheel play a big part. My G29 pedals give me no braking feel, the edge of lockup is a mystery and so are the front tires sometimes. I am also struggling with smooth throttle application. To compensate for these shortcomings, I am less aggressive than I could be.

Most of the Daily races I've been in have been spectacular. Following close battles and planning clean passes is grin-inducing. Holding your position for a few laps against a faster competitor (without driving like an idiot) is so rewarding. I'm as likely to raise my hands in triumph at the end of a race for these little things as a victory.
 
superwally
Another vote for lift-brake when following. It might even make you faster.
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It can, and often times will simply because you tend to carry more corner speed than the "wait until you see god then brake" method. Most times when I let off, brake and then enter the turn I am also braking at or close to the apex, not because I will miss the corner, but to avoid butt packing the car in front of me.
 

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