Tragedy

[tigermoth737]

Now before i get into the point of this thread, first off i would like to say that i am not stating that i would like to see drivers killed or badly injured. but i started this thread out of curiosity, because i need to know people's opinions on the drivers we have lost over the years. how the deaths could have been avoided, and different views on how the accidents occured and devices that we have today that could've made nearly all of these deaths avoidable. I dont wish to start a big stupid fight over this, and apologie's if anyone thought the title meant someone died in pre-race testing or in an accident not related to racing. I have seen many F1 crashes, i dont watch them coz i'm blood thirsty, i study them to see what went wrong, to understand the sport better. So with this in mind, please avoid this thread if you are blood thirsty and enjoy watching drivers get killed or seriously injured.

 

[tigermoth737]

So i think i should kick thing's off with the accident that doomed ground effect technology and the ''sliding skirt's", the tragic event that we all could'nt believe happen to this man, the little man from Quebec, Gilles Villeneuve.

 

[amp88]

Gilles' death was caused by him running into the back of a slower car while he was on a flying lap, not because of ground effect cars or sliding skirts (unless you mean that the sudden loss of ground effects caused the car to leave the ground after the contact?). That was simply a racing accident and at such high speeds nothing much would have stopped him from being killed given the technology involved in the cars back then.

Of the last two drivers killed at a Grand Prix weekend (Roland Ratzenberger and Ayrton Senna), I believe only one could reasonably have been prevented. Ratzenberger's crash was caused by a front wing failure, he hit the wall at very high speed. It would be unreasonable to believe a driver could survive a near head-on collision with a concrete wall at 180+mph, in terms of car design anyway. A multi-layered tyre wall could possibly have saved his life, but even with a tyre barrier in place it he probably still would have been killed (Michael Schumacher hit a tyre barrier at 60-odd mph and broke his leg at Silverstone, with much improved car safety compared to Ratzenberger's car).

Senna's death, on the other hand, could easily have been prevented, IMHO. There are a number of theories surrounding the cause of the fatal accident, but the bottoming out of the car caused by the drop in tyre pressure/temperature due to following the (incredibly slow) safety car is one of the strongest (and the one I believe contributed the most). I believe if a faster Safety Car were used the drop in pressures and temperatures would not be so severe and the accident could have been prevented. Martin Brundle mentioned during last year's Japanese GP that there was a suggestion of using something like a DTM car as the safety car, but that this would need a team of mechanics to set it up and a highly skilled driver.

The current safety car is something in the region of a minute per lap slower than current F1 cars, this difference in speed is too much, IMO. We need a faster safety car, not necessarily a racing car, possibly something like a Radical SR8.

 

[tigermoth737]

gilles hit jochen mass at 200 k's an hour, if that happened today he would,ve lost the tyre and the suspension element's or vice versa, and if his car somersaulted into the air and cartwheeled today then he would've been protected by the safety cell, his car "flew" because of the technology.
And by the way, i am fairly aware of what happened to him, throw any fatality at me and i could tell you what happened.

besides, i did'nt ask for a lecture, refer to the first post. i will probably start a new one up soon.

Also, for the safety car idea, they already have a skilled driver, bernd maylander, he drives the safety car and particapates in dtm regularly so there you have it, get an old, say 2001 or 2002 spec mercedes clk dtm car and keep the current safety car driver. to easy

 

[DQuaN]

Errr, i think one of the main factors that contributed to Giles' death was the fact that he was ejected from his car.

Had the seat and restraints held im in the car, he may have had a chance.

 

[tigermoth737]

yeah but the cause of the accident in the first place was the weak, fragile body and the skirts that suspended his car in the air. but yes you do make a very good point there.

 

[tigermoth737]

I know we only just got started but heres a more unique situation. Tom Pryce at Kyalami. and if you have'nt seen the crash then dont go looking for it. no matter how curious, just dont do it. i can explain upon request.

i will tell you, that'll save ya'll.
Tom pryce started in a low position at kyalami, but he was slowly making his way up the field.
Renzo Zorzi, team-mate of tom, pulled over just on the brow of the crest, he had a split in his fuel pipe, 2 marshall's are called over from across the track after a small fire starts licking around the cars engine.
The car was stopped on the long front sraight so it was'nt the most ideal place to get called into action.
the marshalls start there trek across the track, 19 year old Jansen van vuuren lugging a fire extinguisher hobbles across the track.
Tom comes up on the straight, he tucks into the slipstream of hans joachim stuck, all of a sudden stuck swerves, van vuuren is in front of tom and as fate would have it,he struck jansen, the 80lb fire extinguisher hit tom flat in the face and tom was killed.
as you can imagine, jansen was killed aswell, but he was flung in the air and the force of the hit tore his limbs apart, his body was then cast aside on to the armco barrier.
if that was'nt enough then tom's car kept going down the long front straight, everyone in the pits look around, "What the hell's going on?"
Toms car arrives at the first corner at high speed, it hits jacques laffite's ligier and both cars spin violently into the catch fencing.
Jacques hop's out of his car and is unhurt but he know's somethings not right, he goes to toms car and finds blood spattered all around the cockpit, he then in shock runs from the car and gestures to the marshall's to help him out.
an ambulance takes tom away but the race continues as normal. the fire extinguisher ripped off tom's helmet and he had horrible lacerations to his face. the fire extinguisher was struck moments later by niki lauda and it got jammed in his radiator sending engine tempratures through the roof, but he remarkebly still won the race.

 

[amp88]

I know we only just got started but heres a more unique situation. Tom Pryce at Kyalami. and if you have'nt seen the crash then dont go looking for it. no matter how curious, just dont do it. i can explain upon request.

Better trained track marshals and no running across the track carrying fire extinguishers.

 

[Blake]

Errr, i think one of the main factors that contributed to Giles' death was the fact that he was ejected from his car.

Had the seat and restraints held im in the car, he may have had a chance.

As far as I know he was alive and concious until he hit a post on the catch fencing. Still, chances of survival from a fall like that are pretty small, anyway.

 

[liam2maps]

Roland. Hardly remembered which is unfortunate because he made his way deservedly to top level motorsport. What I find the saddest thing of all is that, a mountain bike presented to the team by Ratzenberger in Brazil to mark his F1 debut was auctioned for only £420, after his death to pay off Simteks debt.

Something a team should NEVER have sold.

For Roland

 

[liam2maps]

This isn't F1 related but Daijiro Kato. If anyone saw his crash which is pretty recent you would be disgusted at how the Japanese marshalls handled the whole situation.

Daijiro Kato is a person, not a ****ing rag doll.

 

[Lee]

besides, i did'nt ask for a lecture, refer to the first post. i will probably start a new one up soon.

It wern't a lecture, it was a post made of very well made points on a number of crashes. Give people more of a chance, right now you've posted up 3 crashes, slow down a little so people can state their points.

Great post by amp 👍 Rep time!

 

[amp88]

It wern't a lecture, it was a post made of very well made points on a number of crashes. Give people more of a chance, right now you've posted up 3 crashes, slow down a little so people can state their points.

Great post by amp 👍 Rep time!

Thanks, much appreciated 👍

 

[Mike Rotch]

This thread is serving no purpose: "talk about tragedy, but not blood and guts"? A driver being killed doing what he loves in front of millions of people is tragedy enough without having to analyse every bit of it in detail.

You may want to also search, this topic has been covered before.