Transmission question

B

bostwick_965

34
I have a question about transmission tuning and I think that this first question is new because I have conducted a few searches and have come up with nothing. My second and third questions are just to help me clarify. My 1st question is that in the transmission setting if you want to decrease the amount of wheel spin in a given wheel you make that gear taller decrease the number in that specific gear field. This seems to work on decreasing wheel spin but even when I tried to match the gears that followed I still could not produce a better split time for the test track 400m or 1000m. I will give you an example I have a full moded NA tuned Toyota Trueno (non SS) that rides on simulation tires to increase the effects of wheel spin on the determining gears. The car has no changes in suspension or LSD basically at stock setting except TCS and ASM are set at zero after all of the upgrades modifications. The reason that I chose to do it this way is because if I can get rid of some power over steer before I fool with the suspension and LSD it should be easier to set up the suspension and LSD at a later date. The transmission is set so the cars top speed will be 140 Mile Per Hour this top speed remains constant throughout the whole test. Set the car to automatic so the shift points dont change. So you take the car to the test track and make the gears that create wheel spin taller to decrease wheel spin. I find that your split times have decreased on both the 400m and the 1000m. You then spend time on trying to match the gears better only to find the same lower split times. Maybe My theory is wrong or I am doing something wrong in the setup or maybe you just have to sacrifice split time for the decrease in wheel spin. If you can clarify please do it would be greatly appreciated? :)

I also have another question I have heard that when tuning your transmission that the final gear ratio relates how many times the drive shaft has to spin to produce on wheel rotation. A hypothetical example is that if you have the final gear set at 4.0 then it has to turn 4 times to create on wheel rotation. If it was then changed to 1.0 it would mean that the rotation of the drive shaft is equal to the rotation of the wheel. If I follow this it makes sense that a lower final gear would produce more top end. The thing that bothers me is how exactly does increasing the amount of times the drive shaft has to rotate to create one wheel rotation create quicker acceleration. It would seem to me that more drive shaft rotations to create one wheel rotation is counter productive. :crazy: Last question how does this relate to the individual gear ratios. Once again this is what I have heard if you can clarify it would be greatly appreciated. :dopey:
 
bostwick_965
The thing that bothers me is how exactly does increasing the amount of times the drive shaft has to rotate to create one wheel rotation create quicker acceleration. It would seem to me that more drive shaft rotations to create one wheel rotation is counter productive.
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Do a Google search for "Mechanical advantage" or "Mechanical advantage gear ratios".

The higher the ratio, the more torque is being imparted to the wheels of the car. A 5:1 gear ratio is putting five times more torque to the wheels than a 1:1 ratio.

You can mess with transmission ratios all you want, but the following old GT3 trick has always worked for me. Using this, I can quickly set the final drive to where it needs to be for each track. The close ratios of the transmission that you get with the "tranny trick" seem to work on all tracks.

"There exists in GT3 a thing called the "Tranny Trick" - this works because the game records two Final Drive ratios - the number on the screen and "Final Drive @ Auto Setting" - the Final Drive value that was set when the Auto Setting was set. The trick works like this:

"Increase the Final Drive ratio as high as you can. Usually it's 3.999, 4.499, 4.999 or 5.499. This makes the gearbox very close.

"Move the AutoSetting full right, then full left. Only the full left is important (for extra-close gears), but some cars have low Auto Settings as standard which can bugger the tranny trick right up.

"Now move the Final Drive ratio (the L1 and L2 buttons make the ratio move in increments of 10) back to a level that produces the desired top speed. Keep testing and adjusting it until you reach a point where you're redlining right at end of the longest straight."

Personally, I set the final drive higher than that, so I'm redlining well before the end of the longest straight. The higher ratio gives me better acceleration out of the turns, resulting in better lap times.
 
Thank Zardoz you for helping me understand the transmission better I appreciate it.
The only thing is I know about the trany trick I was just wondering if you could change gear ratios to decrease wheel spin without loosing time on the track.
 
bostwick_965
Thank Zardoz you for helping me understand the transmission better I appreciate it.
The only thing is I know about the trany trick I was just wondering if you could change gear ratios to decrease wheel spin without loosing time on the track.
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Dunno. Never tried it because it seems really time-consuming. Also, a taller ratio means poorer acceleration.

I always control wheelspin the cheap way, by using a little TCM. ASM just slows the car down, so never use any of that.

Depending on the car, I've used TCM settings between 1 and 6.
 
You are right it is very time consuming but I am somewhat of a perfectionist. In any car with the softest racing tires equipped and you turn of TCS and ASM you will come up with a better time in the 1000m drag than you would with it on unless you have a car with a super amount of horse power because it will cause wheel spin. So I wanted the fastest possible car in a straight and then you can tune your car with suspension and LSD to get rid of any problems you experience in the corners. So I thought to myself, self what would really show you handling problems on that particular car? Sim tires. So I drive with sim tires on when I tune. I came up with the obvious answer though your on sim tires and the cars faults are striped bare you have to tune the car to the set of tires it runs because it handles different with different tire. So after this long winded explanation of my experiences. I somehow came to love driving cars on sim tire. I think it makes you feel the car better and can make you a better driver but that my opinion. So finally sim tires usually = crazy wheel spin with no TCS or ASM that can be massively helped by throttle control which in the above scenario should not hinder acceleration. So after tuning the suspension and LSD you would still like to limit wheel spin. So I set the auto setting as high as it would go and found that there was less wheel spin but it was generally reaching the same speeds that it was before but a little slower. So I thought lengthen the gears that have wheel spin in them and then try to match the gears after that. Final result slower times because even with an automatic trans with the same shift point throttle control is what determines your time. So then change to T7 tires or soft racing tires where there is just a little wheel change trans to limit wheel spin in that gear then match others to find the same result. If you watch any drag racing they say that any wheel spin at the start of a drag will lower your time so how is it not faster after changing the trans to limit wheel spin. I know that you could go back to using TCS but to me that is giving up. :crazy:
 
bostwick:

When you are "changing the ratios to reduce wheel spin", what you are doing is making the gearing so tall that the car does not have the leverage, or effective torque, to overcome traction. So effectively what you're doing is limiting the car's acceleration ability to the available traction at the worst case. That seriously reduces the acceleration ability of the car.
 
Agreed. The best way to stop wheelspin is to either use TCS at 1 or 2, or just be more sensitive with the button/stick/pedal (whichever you use).
 
bostwick_965
You are right it is very time consuming but I am somewhat of a perfectionist. In any car with the softest racing tires equipped and you turn of TCS and ASM you will come up with a better time in the 1000m drag than you would with it on unless you have a car with a super amount of horse power because it will cause wheel spin. So I wanted the fastest possible car in a straight and then you can tune your car with suspension and LSD to get rid of any problems you experience in the corners. So I thought to myself, self what would really show you handling problems on that particular car? Sim tires. So I drive with sim tires on when I tune. I came up with the obvious answer though your on sim tires and the cars faults are striped bare you have to tune the car to the set of tires it runs because it handles different with different tire. So after this long winded explanation of my experiences. I somehow came to love driving cars on sim tire. I think it makes you feel the car better and can make you a better driver but that my opinion. So finally sim tires usually = crazy wheel spin with no TCS or ASM that can be massively helped by throttle control which in the above scenario should not hinder acceleration. So after tuning the suspension and LSD you would still like to limit wheel spin. So I set the auto setting as high as it would go and found that there was less wheel spin but it was generally reaching the same speeds that it was before but a little slower. So I thought lengthen the gears that have wheel spin in them and then try to match the gears after that. Final result slower times because even with an automatic trans with the same shift point throttle control is what determines your time. So then change to T7 tires or soft racing tires where there is just a little wheel change trans to limit wheel spin in that gear then match others to find the same result. If you watch any drag racing they say that any wheel spin at the start of a drag will lower your time so how is it not faster after changing the trans to limit wheel spin. I know that you could go back to using TCS but to me that is giving up. :crazy:
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This is a perfect example of how great GT3 is, and how great GT4 will be. You've customized the game to be what you want it to be, and get the sort of fun out of it that you're looking for. The beauty of the game is that it has so many variables available that we can do this kind of thing.

I customize the game to make the races a highly-challenging test of chassis setup skills and driving ability. In the Tokyo R246 100-lapper (the JGTC car endurance event), for instance, I took the ARTA NSX with my best chassis setup, but used the minimal "normal" horsepower, then handicapped the car even more by setting an absurdly tall final drive ratio of 2.20 or something. The final was so high the poor car wasn't even redlining in fourth gear at the end of the long straight. In effect, I had changed the six-speed transmission to a four-speed.

With this silly gearing, every car in the race had better acceleration and top speed. To make it even tougher, I kept exiting and re-entering the game until both the Denso and Tom's Supras appeared on the starting grid, because they're quite a bit faster in this event than the other JGTCs.

I got what I was looking for. I had to drive an almost perfect race to win. I sweated it out right to the last few laps, trailing the Denso Supra with just four laps to go. He then pitted for tires, and I squeaked by to win the long race by just six seconds.

If you don't do this, the races are far too easy to win. People say GT3 is too easy, but it doesn't have to be if you give yourself sufficient handicaps. The developers, in their wisdom, realize that some players can't drive very well, and if the game was too tough those players would get very frustrated and discouraged. For those of us who can herd a car around a track pretty well, we can set the game up to be tough by just using slower cars than the AI has. Then it becomes a great test of driving skill.

I love this game! I know I'll love GT4 even more!
 
Thanks to all who have answered. So I just want to get this straight by making the gears taller you are limiting acceleration in that gear so the wheels don’t break traction, but by doing this you are also decreasing the potential acceleration in that gear making it slower to accelerate hurting split time. I get the idea if the above statement I typed is correct. This means that I will need either more throtle control or use TCS.
 
That is correct. Imagine riding a bicycle on a gravel road. If you stand up on the pedals in low gear, you can spin the back tire. Shifting up, you will reach a gear where you are no longer strong enough to do that. However, you will also not be strong enough to accelerate very quickly, either.
 
Thanks Neon Duke you ar very knowledgable in this subject could you give me some internet sites or books that would futher my understanding of the transmission and setups please. 👍
 
continuing with the bike metaphor, the final gear would be the same as the gear on which you pedals are attached to. On some bikes there are more than one
 
also cheack how fast you do around the courners when ya race, I always look and when I go say just 5 to 10 KMh faster in each lap I improve my time bye .100 2.00scecons of my time. See there no point doing over 260 if you need to go slow in the courner to keep controll.
 

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