Tuning Help needed.

quattpequatt

quattpequatt

134
Canada
Canada
quattpequatt
So, i need some help figuring out a couple tuning related things, firstly id like to specify that i have looked at various guides, from gt3 to gt6 in regards to tuning, and they seem to be somewhat contradicting to some degree, specially when ti comes to the suspenstio set up and the lsd set ups.
Now, let me begin by saying that there are various "problems" discussed on the forums related to camber and probably after 1.04 brakes. here is my issue, im trying to tune the m3 csl. i have tried both praiano(v1) and HAB tunes(online), which i both thank for their involvement in the community.
The suspesion set up for both are different, hab using much softer springs and low damper numbers and praiano using harder springs and more damper numbers.
The lsd Settings on both seem to be more or less similiar. Im having a problem picking and chosing which one is "better" for me. Im trying to use them as a base line for my personal adjustments.
Im having a very hard time doing so. I havent ventured into the suspension tweaks as there is something wrong with camber and who knows what else might be wrong with suspension behavior.
I need help, and i would like to be guided using the m3 csl as a platform to work on, tuners are welcome to chime in.
Few questions, FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST, how does the LSD work? Some guides explain so that higher numbers are worse, and some explain it that lower numbers are worse, ive messed around but cant get any conclusive results.
EX in the HAB tune we have lsd set up as INT 8 ACC 10 DEC 8.
I would like to tweak it further as i feel there is room for improvement in those numbers, the tires (SS) squeel way to much, meaning im losing forward movement (possible traction).
How can i do this? can anyone give em a run down of how each value works? Not a copy pasted version from gt5 please. they dont seem to work as intended, for any tuner which has found any relevant pattern or how the lsd works in gt6 or anyone please explain what each value does.
The issue im having is that some guides state that ACC setting is to modify or adjust inner or outer tire spin. How can i know which is the inner or outer tire, and how can i test for this supposed spin? (doing donuts doesnt seem to work, adjusting accel produces always same tire turning red first)
More general questions:
What track should i be using to test my tunes, a good over all well rounded track to test one any advice?
Any benchmark or number i should start with, general rules or values i should be startign with when tuning?
understeer vs driver:
Another good question is how can i distinguish between having under steer and just going into the corner too hot? how can i tell the difference between the tune not working and just driver error(taking the corner too fast?)
Any help is appreciated, newb tuner here, but pretty serious about it, been putting some SOLID hours into the game.
If possible we could work on the csl, so i can tune it to my liking while learning how to tune.
Thank you all!
 
Motor City Tunes GT6 - Corvette Stingray C7

Nuf said, at least as far as LSD work is concerned.

When you are cornering the tyre that is closest to the outside curb is the outside tyre. There is a diagram of four tyres in the bottom left corner of the driving screen. When only the rear outside or inside tyre turns red, chances are you've over powered it.

If your outside front tyre is turning red on entry you've gone in too hot. If you feel that the car isn't turning in quick enough and you're always missing the apex (or focal point) then tune out the understeer. If you feel the entry under steer isn't effecting your lap times and can be countered mainly by pre-entry then leave the under steer alone.

Driving a lot will improve your tuning skills. Understanding how a car corners will help (such as the difference between entry under steer and exit under steer). Joining one of FITTs shootouts will help, either as a tester or a tuner. Or both.

/end Rons' Rant
 
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I wrote a guide for GT6 (thanks @Ronald6 for the mention above). See the link in my signature below. I am working to add scenarios to it. I have listed a few already, but there are many more situations and options. Let me know if you have questions.

As for you LSD Accel question, take one of your favorite cars to the track and install harder tires than you intent to use for racing. For example, a 500PP street car that you intend to race on sport soft tires, you should tune it using sport hard tires. Or for a 700PP race car that will be raced on racing softs, you should begin by tuning it on racing hard tires. If you notice a loose condition on throttle from apex to exit, look over at the tire heat indicators. Which tire turned yellow or red first? The inside tire would be the one closest to the curbing near the apex. The outside tire would be on the loaded side of the car or the outside of the turn.

Track is subjective. Pick one that you really like for two reasons. First, you are going to log a lot of laps there. Second, consistency is important. Can you do lap after lap and hit your marks.
 
For LSD settings or any kind of doubt about tuning in GT6 (or 5) Motor City Tunes is the best place to start for any question you have. Great job, i agree with everything, also with his doubt.

For the track you have to use to tune ??? The one you know perfectly and where you can repeat laps within a quarter or half second or less . Better if this track present all the kind of situations you want to test. You can check anything with the help of your ghost.
My first track is Suzuka for example.

How to distinguish between having under steer and just going into the corner too hot? There is no way to discover for understeer. It happen when you pass the limit and you have to stay under this limit very passively, waiting the car make his turn.
For oversteer it´s different, the limit is a question of skills. That´s why fast alliens cars are on the edge , at the limit of an uncontrolable oversteer.
For most of us ,good mediums average drivers, we need to stay a little behind, but always inside this oversteer tendency, under brake or acceleration. This is the only way to feel that the situation is still under control and with some room to progress to be faster drivers , training and getting better skills.

><(((((°>°°°°°°°°°°°°
 
I have a few other questions when tuning, is there a way to differentiate under or over steer caused by LSD instead if suspension? Or vice versa ? Any way to really establish what component change is causing what
Also how can we gauge a successful tune? Example I'm running 1:28 on Laguna seca on 520 pp ss tires with my tune, how can I double check if I'm making any progress or if I maxed out the cars potential?

I've tried comparing with actual real lap times, but my tests were inconclusive, example a stock m3 csl is supposed to run brands hatch Indy in 54, my stock csl does it in 49. So it doesn't seem to be relative to real world counterparts
 
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You can only compare two different set ups or make a change to a set up and test the change.

With experience, you might think you can predict how a tune will drive from looking at it's settings, but you need to drive it to confirm this and you might think you know how the settings make the tune drive a certain way after driving it, but you can only confirm this by making a change to the settings and re-testing.

Sometimes two wildly different tunes of the same car can both produce very good lap times.
 
Speaking generally (I have not tested the above mentioned M3 tunes),
A softer suspension set up offers more grip and easier maneuvering on tight twisty sections but suffers in higher speed corners due to body roll.
A stiffer suspension set up is faster during high speed sections because of the overall stability but suffers on twistier sections because the car doesn't want to be thrown around.
Both have there merits and failings but will work better on different circuits depending on how fast/technical they are.

The LSD is a differential, it is the last stage between gearbox and wheel. It allows the powered wheels to spin at different speeds during cornering.
Lower settings mean that the wheels are more free to spin at different speeds (Open).
Higher settings mean that the wheels are forced to spin at the same rate (Locked).
It is divided into 3 basic settings - Initial, Acceleration and Deceleration
Initial - Sets the overall feel/function of the Diff and can be used to alter both Acc/Dec simultaneously
Acceleration - How the wheels react when power is applied (important coming out of corners)
Open = Less wheel spin and more stability, but power is wasted which makes it slower out of the bends.
Locked = More likely to wheel spin and harder to turn, but more power to both wheels leads to improved acceleration.
Deceleration - How wheels react under braking or lifting off (important going into corners)
Open = Easier to turn whilst braking, can make car more likely to become unstable
Locked = Harder to turn whilst braking, improved stability

Hope this helps and I haven't missed the point entirely
 
Thank you all for your feedback, I managed to tune my m3 so that I have both tires spinning together (accel) setting. As a general rule when tuning LSD, do you start with initial torque accel or decel? Is there a structure to proper lsd tuning? Let's say I found accel 13 to be the sweet spot will changing the initial torque value change that sweet spot and cause me to start all over?
 
Everything seems to be covered above, so I won't touch that part.

As far as tracks go, I will.
When I fine tune my cars, I first visit Apricot Hill.
The speed streight right off the bat is great, as you can test your LSD decel when you slow down for the first turn real easy.
Then you have those wonderful s curves following, giving you back to back, hard cornering, corner-in/apex/corner-out situations. Followed by a looooong curve letting you see the performance on the non-drastic corners.
Then another speed streight with sudden stop for decel checking.

When I'm done with Apricot hill, I take the car to Deep Forest Raceway. Most of it is the same as far as reasons, but the angles are different, and it gives you more visuals for fine tuning.

Those 2 tracks for all suspension and LSD tuning, usually.
For transmission tuning, I hit stage-x first, to find my red line and adjust so I don't hit it too soon or at all depending on the car.
Then I take it to Tokyo. Mainly because Tokyo has tons of both high speed places as well as lower speed cornering spots.

Hope that helped you with your tracks anyway.
As far as reading up with Motor City, most of what I know today, I learned from watching Motor City and Priano, so I would listen to whatever they say honestly.
 
i'll give you my process and feelings from someone who is also fairly new to tuning in game and has a general understanding of how these things work IRL and ingame. I'll tackle your questions in order.

1. unfortunately the application of tuning strategies changes from game to game. there's less of a leap from 5 to 6 but it's still more easy to start from scratch and learn what works than to go from a guide for GT5.

2. From the two tunes you've provided (praino and Hab) i prefer prainos. I've also tried both since the M3 CSL and GTR were my favorite 500pp cars in GT5. Prainos is a bit more stable but is very stiff. because of that it has less tolerance for using curbs and bumpy parts of a track.

3. i haven't really had any suspension settings work other than expected except for camber. that's still being discussed as to how it works (or doesn't) but personally I've found that as you add camber, the cars seems less responsive and kinda washed out. I'd recommend 0/0 but play with it. a good way to describe understeer is "waiting". If you are in the middle of turning and you are having to wait to get back on the gas or you get on the gas but have to let back off because the car wont turn, that's understeer.

4. there's lots of guides and explanations for LSDs out there but i'm going to put it at it's simplest and give you a test to try so that you can see the differences in your adjustments. i'm actually going to tell you to adjust them in the opposite order that they are listed in the game.

Start with a powerful RWD car, the LFA is perfect. Drive it with the factory settings, you'll see that it like to slide and drift, obviously. take note of the factory settings. they should be a low initial (around 7), a high AC(around 30 or 40), and an middle DC (around 20).

The deceleration setting will be adjust how your car turns while using the brakes and coasting, this is one of the harder ones to feel and you almost always want it very low (under 10). the higher it is the more stable the car would be under braking but it won't be able to turn as well.

Decel: lower means more maneuverability while braking, higher means more stability while braking.

The acceleration setting is a lot more easy to feel and see the results of your adjustments. Think of it as the drifting adjustment. the higher the number the more sliding and drifting you will do. all this setting does is tell the power where to go. your wheels always get 100% of the power but if you have it at a very low setting, more of that power will go to the inside wheel so that the outside wheel will retain grip. the inside wheel is always on the side that you are turning into. if you are turning left then the inside wheels are your left side wheels. You want this setting as high as possible while still making the car stable while using the throttle. on the LFA depending on your throttle control, a low of around 12 and a high of around 25. On my personal LFA i float between 15 and 20 depending on the track. slower or smaller tracks where i will be in lower gears (deep forest, autumn ring, etc.) i have a lower number for more stability coming out of the turns.


Accel: lower means more stability exiting corners, higher means more evenly distributed power and throttle steer.

The initial torque setting adjusts how the other settings are applied and blended together. You generally want this as low as possible while still keeping a predictable car. Think of this as a timer for the accel and decel settings. the lower this setting, the quicker the others can do their jobs. the more you move it up, the slower they do their job. you generally want this as low as possible while keeping a predictably handling car. a good way to get the feel for this is using a sweeper turn like the big left hander half way through apricot hill. the higher this setting, the less your car will move around while switching between gas and brake while turning. i usually have mine around 12 but you could have it as high as 25 on a very powerful car. again, the higher this setting, the higher stability you'll have, but the less turning ability you'll have.

Initial T: lower means quicker acting LSD but higher turning ability, lower means more predictable LSD but less turning ability

5. I start with apricot hill because you start with a turn the requires some braking and turning simultaneously. then you have 3 turns that test weight transfer and varying speeds, the last of which is off camber and blind so it tests your oversteer vs. understeer really well here. Next is the big sweeper that will help set your initial torque settings. then you get downhill braking into a tight turn which will help set your decel settings. accelerating of of this slow corner and the next off camber right hand turn will help test your accel settings. also the very last left hander is a good corner to test grip and rotation while exiting a corner.

After apricot hill i move the the nurburgring GP track because it has some very unique turns as well as bigger curbs. After that i go to the nordschilife (spelling lol) and have to start all over cause this track will bring to light all of the problems with your setup that you couldn't see on a smooth track lol.

I'll be happy to work with you on the CSL, just send me a friend request. I have 2 from the ground up tunes that I would love feedback on from some of the vets like praiano and motor city if you guys are up for giving them a few laps.
 
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