Tuning issue..again

Discussion in 'FM4 Tuning' started by saskman1950, Sep 1, 2012.

  1. saskman1950

    saskman1950

    Messages:
    608
    Horse power to weight ratio:

    It's been my experience that the greater hp / weight should produce faster times.

    I understand that light weight cars out handling big rigs in the same class. That's a given.

    So why is it that you can have big hp, low weight and not be as competitive as another car in your garage with less hp to weight???
     
  2. Wiggs

    Wiggs

    Messages:
    1,380
    Could be grip and/or aero. Car A may have a better power to weight ratio, but car B could have aero, better tires, brakes, etc. Car B could also have a better tune and/or build. And some cars in Forza perform better than their stats suggest they should...not sure why, but it's partly what makes some cars leader board cars and some cars pretty average, when the numbers say they should perform the same.
     
  3. saskman1950

    saskman1950

    Messages:
    608
    I understand tuning is a huge component of the whole racing experience.
    I was just curious, as you well know I can't tune worth a hoot. So I made the same car two different ways in 'D' class.
    1. High HP / medium weight
    2. Medium HP / medium weight.
    The lateral Gs was about the same, yet car 2. performs better....

    Just curious. I guess like you say what makes the leader board so interesting.
    Some cars should be average but tear up the track.
     
  4. Wiggs

    Wiggs

    Messages:
    1,380
    Hmmm, maybe I should just say, "I don't know". :lol: There's probably lots of factors to take into account to come to a definite conclusion, and I'd have to use too much of my brain to try and figure it out. So, "I don't know" is my final answer. :dunce:
     
  5. saskman1950

    saskman1950

    Messages:
    608
    Maybe the whole tuning thing is based on points total??
    Speed: 4.3______Speed 5.4
    Handling 5.6______Handling 4.5
    Total 9.9______Total 9.9
    No matter what you do in your tune for speed, you'll be limited in grip. You'll only get so much in total..
    Like you said 'I don't know'

    Maybe I should send you my 'D' class Porsche. Lots of power, no grip....
     
  6. Wiggs

    Wiggs

    Messages:
    1,380
    You can send it over.....I'll fix her up for you. :tup: You know my Forza philosophy is to cut weight and add grip before I even think about power upgrades...unless it's a tune for speed tracks. In that case, I'll cut weight first and balance the rest between power and grip. Or I can whip you up a D class 550 tune and gift it to you. What tracks or types of tracks do you want it for?
     
  7. HBR-Roadhog

    HBR-Roadhog

    Messages:
    6,316
    Location:
    United States
    One problem is that the folks at turn 10 seem to just have a magic way of making a car go a certain speed. while Power to weight combined with areo and tires should rule the day this is not always true in Forza.

    Example. #77 Subaru vs #3 Fairlady Z When built to the max the Fairlady is lighter, more powerful and the aero and tires are equal yet the #77 will mop the floor with the Fairlady.

    You also can't pay any attention to the so called speed numbers as they seem to be based on default gear ratios and seem to be on different scales for different cars. For example you could have a speed of 3.6 but actually be able to do 200 mph or you could have 2 cars with a 10 speed but one of them struggles to break 200mph and the other will do 270 mph. They really need to address this as it has been messed up since Forza 2 or maybe 1.

    I remember the GT40 in Forza 2 with the stock tranny it had a speed rating of 10 but when you added the race tranny it went down to something like 8.3 yet it was the fastest car in the game at a bit over 265mph
     
  8. Wolfe

    Wolfe Premium

    Messages:
    12,950
    Location:
    United States
    ^ Are the tire widths on the Subaru/Fairlady equal too? Forza seems to heavily favor a car with wider tires.
     
  9. Luminis

    Luminis

    Messages:
    9,294
    Location:
    Germany
    There's so much that goes into this that it's alsmost impossible to answer. The fact that your D-Car #2 performs better could be down to:

    Better weight distribution and therefor predictability and stability in corners, better throttle response (especially if it's NA vs. FI), linear vs. explosive power delivery, chassis rigidity (if the one of the cars is using a roll cage, for example), the gear ratios fitting the corners on your test track better in the car with less power, shift times could be different (will amtter a lot on a twisty track) and so on.

    If you want a better answer, you might want to post the upgrades added to the cars in question.
     
  10. HBR-Roadhog

    HBR-Roadhog

    Messages:
    6,316
    Location:
    United States
    I think they are but not sure. Both cars handle well but where the one should have an edge. Speed, acceleration the other one has the edge instead.

    On the question by the OP, could be a matter of gearing. Some cars just have a bad stock gearbox and hurts their performance quite a bit and some cost a small fortune to change the gearing in terms of PI
     
  11. SlyNine

    SlyNine

    Messages:
    198
    Location:
    United States
    To many factors, track, suspension settings, Diff settings, center of gravity..

    And lets not forget the most important aspect, You the driver, might just handle the other car better.
     
  12. SlyNine

    SlyNine

    Messages:
    198
    Location:
    United States
    I think to many people go with wider tires and it slows them down. If you're not fighting to keep traction you have too much traction and not enough power to take advantage of it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2013
  13. Wolfe

    Wolfe Premium

    Messages:
    12,950
    Location:
    United States
    I know what you mean, but I take that approach with compound instead of width. I tend to drive older cars with slimmer tire width options, and in that case I take as much width as I can get (eg. maximum of 245). Meanwhile, taking "Sport" compound allows me extra power on the straights to gain an advantage online; as long as you can control the car, you're good.
     
  14. Bopop4

    Bopop4

    Messages:
    8,100
    Location:
    Canada
    It also depends on the track.
    I test on Sebring Short, and my NSX GT would run a certain time. Giving it more power than handling would make it faster around a lap at Sebring, but if you took it to Mugello, the results might be switched. Plus the combinations of upgrades, racing suspension only adds a few points, but does a LOT for the car.
     
  15. SlyNine

    SlyNine

    Messages:
    198
    Location:
    United States
    Oh how many times I took my hot lapping car online by mistake. The extra traction is a must if your racing online. Hot lapping I'm always on the edge of my traction. I like some leeway online
     
  16. Wolfe

    Wolfe Premium

    Messages:
    12,950
    Location:
    United States
    It does depend on the track, and who you're up against. :tup: I have some maximum-traction cars set aside for when they're needed.
     
  17. SlyNine

    SlyNine

    Messages:
    198
    Location:
    United States
    If you ever have a clean race setup and want more racers. I'm all in just let me know!