Tuning Questions!

Discussion in 'GT6 Drifting' started by iGetMadAngle, Jun 16, 2015.

  1. iGetMadAngle

    iGetMadAngle

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    Location:
    United States
    I know every setting is supposed to compliment each other so what i have been comprehending out of that was, if i have high spring rates i need high compression (Less grip on less grip) but now i'm trying to switch it around, if i have high front springs ill have low front compression, low rear springs high rear compression, and i always just put my extension the same as compression. i'm not exactly sure what way is the right way, i drift better with high spring high compression combos but i'm assuming that its just because ive been doing that. but the other way feels better. But my question is, what is the right way? i like to run the outside & i never lift off the throttle (out of the boost). And another is if i have high front springs would i need low rear springs or what? this tuning junk is really confusing at some times
     
  2. twitcher

    twitcher

    Messages:
    5,909
    If you can bear the dry reading, I suggest you take a look at the Tuning Guide posted in the Tuning Forum. It was written for grip tuning, but all of the principles apply to drift tuning as well.

    There's no magic formula, or "right way". Settings vary from car to car, driver to driver. It's all about getting the car to respond to your inputs the way you want it to.

    Start by getting a feel for how each adjustable value changes a car's handling. Its much easier to understand how they work together when you know how they work on their own.

    Another thing to really focus on when tuning is consistency. In a tuning session, don't focus on going fast, or maxing out angle, massive entries, etc. It's all about hitting the same marks over and over and over. This is what will let you feel the subtle difference changing an adjustable value can make.
     
  3. iGetMadAngle

    iGetMadAngle

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    Location:
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    Well my opinion is that everyone should have relatively have similar tunes, because the game wants you to drift 1 type of way. and to drift that type of way everyone would need similar tunes, All depending on there style, but what i'm really saying is we should all be using the same formula for everything but spring rates, because that's what creates your Style
     
  4. BayouSimDrifter

    BayouSimDrifter

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    you missed the point, everyone's tuning style is different. your drift style also compliments on how you like the car setup. for example: i like snappy transitions to where i do not have to manji hard. so my tunes focus on using the full body weight of the car to rotate around, my spring rates vary depending on the track and section.
     
  5. DolHaus

    DolHaus

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    Not all cars respond in exactly the same way to even minor changes, there is no one shot fix that will work every time. You might need to set up a car completely differently numbers wise to end up with two cars that feel roughly the same
     
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  6. twitcher

    twitcher

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    5,909
    I don't know where you're getting this from at all. In my opinion, that statement is completely false.

    I can easily say that whether a person uses the D-pad or analog stick for steering will change both the approach to drifting, and tuning outcome.

    That same difference gets even more exaggerated if you look at wheel users, which encompasses a wide variety of wheel setups. Everything from T500, to G27 & G25, even DFGT.

    All of these wheels have force feedback options, which are different from person to person based on preference.

    Some people use a full 900' of wheel rotation, while others use as little as 180'.

    Some people have a handbrake mod, while others don't.

    All of these factors can and do creat major differences in how a person likes to tune their cars in order to get the desired response from it.


    And to be really honest, that's just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the list of things which can cause a tune to be different from one person to the next.

    Then there's each individual's approach to drifting. Drifting is 100% a subjective endeavour. No two people share the exact same view on it.

    -how a person likes to innitiate has an effect on the tune. Same with how they like to transition.

    -whether a car is setup for doing short, competition style sections or whether it's set up for running full laps of certain track has an effect on the tune.

    -tunes vary from track to track. A car setup for doing full laps of the 'Ring is going to be different than a car setup to run full laps on A-Ring Mini. Back when GTP FD was still running (this goes back to GT5 actually), a couple of the guys on my team who were very successful were building custom tunes for each specific round of the championship. They were changing the HP, torque, amount of limiter, transmission, diff, ballast, and most definitely the suspension between each round. The "Madrid tune" looked a lot different than the "Fuji tune".

    I could go on for days listing reasons why tunes would be different from one another. Overall skill level is another huge factor. I know guys who have certain cars tuned up so tightly that, should they take a break from GT for a significant time, they won't use those cars until they're "back in the groove", which can take the better part of a month depending on playing time.




    With all that said though, there is actually a magic formula for tuning that most of us follow.

    We spent time learning to understand the subtleties of tuning, and how each variable changes a car's performance. We then use that understanding to build a car which suites our wants and needs, so that we can achieve the desired outcome.

    I'm not trying to be sarcastic or anything either. That really is the formula.
     
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  7. Gonales

    Gonales

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    It doesn't happen often, but I completely agree with Twitcher.

    Simplest example: People with handbrake mods use that for an ebrake obviously. However, because Im too lazy to make one, I use a 0 front to 10 rear brake balance setup, with standard brakes. This causes a car that is already sliding (and hasn't got maximum grip levels) to lock up lock it would under e-braking. (Not exactly, but very much like it.)

    This is just one simple change and it is just about one tiny aspect of drifting: How do people e-brake. Not to even begin mentioning suspension, torque, etc etc...
     
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  8. LameStoner

    LameStoner

    Messages:
    41
    Location:
    Puerto Rico
    Sup Bro! i personally like smooth transitions in a 45 - 65 mph range and most of the time i use heavy cars like my jaguar s type (as you've seen) and my suspension set up is in a happy medium of hard and soft... i try to do my weird set ups in a way that i can take my cars to any track and jus have to change the camber and tranny rather than adjusting the springs and compression everytime, For tandems (wich i suck hard) i use my e-brake a lot in little taps and my gears are mostly 3rd and 4th... Dont know if i made sense but hope u get us a lil bit more


    ps. i use controller
     
  9. purplepeople

    purplepeople

    Messages:
    23
    I always have my car 5 notches above slammed. If it doesn't seem to be getting enough wheel spin I'll bump the back up a bit or bring the front down a bit.
     
  10. Fangin4Pinks

    Fangin4Pinks

    Messages:
    31
    I usually run the extension slightly higher than the compression. The extension removes undesirable body roll while the lower compression allows for some flexibility and a less twitchy, more forgiving drive.
     
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  11. Grippy

    Grippy (Banned)

    Messages:
    383
    I'd say the right way to learn how to drift is to read up a bit about mods done to drift cars IRL. You may also notice some cars in GT6 have more steering angle than real life counterparts. This as it turns out is good for drifting. Though some of the best drift tunes do ignore some real world no-gos it's always better to start with a good foundation.

    My suggestion is to find the setting that feels as loose and smooth as possible, without being twitchy. You want elegant, long slides that are highly flexible dependent upon throttle response and counter-steering style.

    When you countersteer you are not fighting the car, but guiding it through the drift with little corrections and manipulations of the driver inputs, the wheel should aid the rest of the drift in and out of a apex on a good setup. It should feel natural to slide in a properly setup misslie.

    Now for less jargon, more direct explanation: Including only what I've found to be good base for cars from 1990 and upwards this should work ok:
    Cars such as the Front-Engined Rear-wheel driven Nissan Silvia (S13-S15), you want to keep it's weight around 1100kg(no more than 1300kg) and power around 250hp-450hp (I prefer ~300hp)
    Then fit the Comfort Hard (CH) tyres.

    LSD settings:
    Initial, Accel, Decel
    10, 26, 6
    or
    9, 34, 6
    or
    8, 44, 6 is around what I use on most cars
    • I never use Initial torque over 16, that makes the car too Grippy and should only be used in ridiculously overpowered cars with 800hp+
    • Accel sens. Never go higher than 50 so I have some throttle control to my slide
    • Decel sens. Around 10(6 works a treat) to initiate brake-drifts
    • Alternatively some cars favour higher Intials and lower Accels, something like 14,18,6
    Suspension:
    Ride Height about 10 clicks before lowest value
    Suspension stiffened anywhere from 2kgs-4kgs to compensate, generally 2kgs harder springs on front

    Dampers I run something like:
    5,4
    5,4
    or
    6,4
    6,4 to encourage the wheel to countersteer itself more.

    Anti-rolls vary heavily on tune/car but can be similar to dampers on modern cars, 6 front and 5 rear is good to start.
    • Some lighter cars( sub 1000kg) become very slidey(like on a ice rink) with roll bars over 5, in that case 2 or 3 even might do the trick, depending on weight distribution.

    Camber, you want little on rear if at all (less than 1.0) and a good dose on the front 3.4-5.5 dependent upon spring deflection.

    Toe 0.0 is best. You can tweak this later after your springs/dampers/roll bars and LSD are fine-tuned. If you need some stability, rear toe in a few clicks. Some front toe-out (around -0.05 to -0.27) can give you better countersteer properties.

    Regarding power upgrades, I previously would purchase the High-Rpm Turbos for the horsepower gains, but if you want to save a little and get a easier drift choose the Mid-range Turbo for considerably less lag, kicking out more like a V8 and better response thus reducing chances of understeer.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2016
  12. JLax

    JLax

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    9
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  13. DolHaus

    DolHaus

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    All I could find that was applicable to the game was run less than 4 degrees of camber on the front end?
     
  14. twitcher

    twitcher

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    5,909
    Mike Kojima's tuning philosophies played a big role in how many of the original members of Nemesis tuned their cars going back to GT5. We copied his style of tuning quite a bit :tup:
     
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  15. iName

    iName

    Messages:
    668
    Location:
    United States
    So I have a couple questions about tuning, seems like the thread for it. Time for a number format!

    1. My car can't hold a slide for long, like Suzuka the long left hander before the tight hairpin onto the straight. I always loose my slide halfway and have to straighten out. How do I fix this?

    2. My front tires kind of 'dig in', they also smoke like my rears, and it slows me down. Add more front camber?

    3. When would you use higher downforce values for front or back?
     
  16. DolHaus

    DolHaus

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    3,865
    Location:
    England
    1) Stiffen your spring rates to reduce grip, reduce front/rear toe in (positive numbers) to stop the car wanting to pull straight

    2) Add front camber to reduce front grip, maybe a bit more front damper compression

    3) Never really use downforce, doesn't really work that well for drifting in GT6
     
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  17. OdeFinn

    OdeFinn

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    2,643
    Location:
    Finland
    Thanks for pointing out on excellent source, put everything as Kojima suggests and here's my nearly finished S13.
    I'm no drifter (yet), but really liked to do drift car, now learning with it.. :)
     
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  18. JLax

    JLax

    Messages:
    9
    I'm glad I could help. Nice drifts in the S13! Looks like you're getting the hang of it and your driving looks smooth!
     
  19. OdeFinn

    OdeFinn

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    Location:
    Finland
    Thanks, kinda big piece to chew simultaneously learn drifting and setting up drift car, 171hp on s13 isn't enough, fixing now it around 300hp and learning more driving and building setup. Slowly going /~
     
  20. OdeFinn

    OdeFinn

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    2,643
    Location:
    Finland
    @JLax you're drifter guy, you might know is tune good or bad for drifting if you try one, I'm asking if you could check this drifter tune and judge is it worth of keeping as practise drifter?
    It follows 1:1 Mike Kojima's guide, kinda replica of Budget Drifter from real-life, only thing what's not looking by number as real-life is front toe, reason is that lot spoken "broken camber" what's not broken, GT6 just generates 10:1 camber thrust on front but nothing on rear, so every full degree of camber on front needs opposite tenth of toe to keep effective toe zeroed, it means -4.0° camber generates +0.40 toe-in and to eliminate it you have to use -0.40 toe out to get effective 0.00 toe on front. Rear doesn't do that.