Tuning Springs Guide?

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R6Boy2005

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Hey Guys,

I'm a beginner tuner and I've gotten a lot of positive feedback on some of the cars I've tuned so far. I've used both Manual Clutch's tuning guide and the guide from VW Worm over on fm.net. There is just one more area that I'm really struggling with...springs. There was a guy (MAKO something) that posted in the tuning guide on FM.net and made it a really easy formula but I was wondering if there was something easier. Maybe a general rule of thumb? Or do I just have to memorize the equation he used as I tune more and more. I'm just really excited to be tuning and hate to have that post in front of me all the time like a crutch. I guess long story long, are there any simplified ways of tuning springs? I won't use a tuning calculator.
 
Easiest way is to look at real world aftermarket springs for reference, say for a S2000, stock spring goes at 220lbs, 400lbs is for sport and track orientated springs on street/sport tires, 700lb for full on racing slicks and for the upper extreme some people run 1000lbs springs.

if your car is heavier you need harder springs, but not in direct proportion. If you have downforce you need some extra to compensate for it as well (just factor the downforce into the dry weight).

If spring is too soft you will notice sluggishness and instability when changing direction fast, if spring is too hard you feel like you are constantly skimming across the track with very little ability to modulate it mid corner, when spring is right you can feel it loading the tires properly, the apex speed actually won't differ too much but it's more about the transitional behavior that matters. Also have a general damping setup and no anti-roll when you test it.

Then for general spring balance you want harder front for RWD and balanced for FWD, in some cars you can run harder rear without it become unpredictable then go ahead, normally for a well balanced car the difference between front and rear won't be more then 10%.

I do grip tune mostly and my cars are usually between 2000 to 2400lbs, and the spring rate I estimated usually isn't a bad starting point.
 
Thanks Fuse! A lot of people factor in downforce, where do I get this info from? Just the percentage on the aero tab? How do you find the real world info? Just google "Spec Miata Spring Setup" for example?
 
Sounds daft since its for a diff game but the principles are there but do a search for Shift 2 unleashed tuning tips. theres 6 of em detailing various aspects of car tuning, enough to get you putting a reasonable tune together.
There are a couple of bits i'm still working on like gearing and LSD but the handling is spot on and i'm having great success with my Diablo i've made

also with springs just remember that too soft and you'll bottom out but too stiff and teh car will lose griup and get a bit too 'slidey'
 
Quick rule of thumb, check the weight distribution.
A 46% front would naturally mean a stiffer spring setting towards the rear(54%).
Roll bars would be stiffer towards the rear too.

Telemetry is excellent in Forza and shows a lot of info.
The friction tab is invaluable.
When I'm looking to balance springs/ roll bars I'm looking to get all 4 tired to break lose at the same time in general.
RWD for example will brake lose at the rear with throttle oversteer for example but that would be expected.

I'm looking for my tires to lose it when on a long accelerating corner for example. If the rear breaks lose I'm looking to loosen up my roll bars. My aim is to get all tires to lose grip at the same time. Not fronts breaking lose first or rears.

Springs are more straight line orientated. Again I'm using the telemetry tab to get all tires to lose traction at the same time.

Once the car is balanced you can soften or stiffen the whole setup at once. Add 100 to front and back and check your telemetry again.

Hope I've given something you can try.
A bit of a black art is the tuning side of things.
Drivers personal preference plays a part too.
Some like a bit of oversteer, some may prefer a safer under steer.
Front engine, rear wheel drive go through transitions of over and under steer. He he.

I'm not a great tuner but I have learnt a lot by trial and error.

Have fun.
 
Hey guys,

Thanks for keeping this post alive. I forgot I posted it! I've ready through the tips and learned a lot. I've been tuning by trial/error which a lot of people tell me you have to do, but I'm getting to the point where when I'm tuning a car. I can tell what it needs and where to make adjustments.

Thanks Guys!
 
I've also been using JJ72's method of researching real life spring rates and that has helped a LOT. Usually I can find a good setup online and then tweak it in-game to my liking
 
There is a tuning guide on Forzamotorsports forum that is worth reading:

http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/thread/4905856.aspx

And if you have Microsoft Excel on your computer, there is a tuning calculator you can download. Fill in the proper info and it gives you all the suspension settings and trans ratios. I've found it works pretty good for some cars, and not so good for others. Getting the "Advanced" settings right can help fine tune a setup.

http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/thread/4859908.aspx
 
Yeah checked out that tuning guide. Not a fan of tuning calculators just because I'm trying to learn tuning in depth so I know what I need to change based on how the car drives.
 
I just re-read your original post. So, here is how I go about setting my springs...initially. It's a little simpler than the other equation, and it seems to work, for me at least. I picked it up from someone in FM3 forums. I don't claim to be an expert tuner at all, but you asked, this makes it easy, so here goes.
You will need a calculator, and the percentage of weight on the front. When you install the fully adjustable suspension, there is a beginning setting for the springs. Add the front and rear springs together. Then multiply that total by the percentage of weight on the front. Make the percentage a decimal...if it's 52% make it 0.52. That's your front spring setting. Then take the total of the front and rear from before and multiply it by the percentage of weight on the rear. In this case it would be 48%, or 0.48. This gives you the spring setting for the rear. Then I multiply each result, front and rear, by 0.9. You end up with the springs balanced to the weight distribution, but a little softer than the default springs. A good place to start doing hot laps in free run, and looking at the telemetry to set the camber.

Here's an example of one I'm working on now. 1965 Alfa Romeo GTA set up for E275. Default springs are 349.5 front / 343.0 rear. Add them together = 692.5 TOTAL.
Percentage of weight on the front is 52%, or 0.52. Multiply the TOTAL ( 692.5) by 0.52 = 360 front spring rate.

Then multiply the TOTAL ( 692.5) by the percentage of weight on the rear, 48% or 0.48. Gives you 332.5 for the rear springs.

This will give you a car that is balanced by the weight distribution. Then I multiply front and rear each by 0.9 to give a softer spring setup, but still balanced.

360 front / 332.5 rear
multiply each by 0.9 gives you

324 front / 299.5 rear.

Now I'm going to go do hot laps and check telemetry and adjust camber and tire temp, then ARB's and shocks.

If you are trying to tune a car that you've already changed the spring settings, and you don't know the original ( default) settings, go to the place where you adjust the tune setup just below "upgrade shop". When you are in "tune setup", down ar the bottom right of the page it shows to hit the "right arrow" to get to setup mananger. Setup Manager has third row down "Reset Default Tuning Settings". This will give you all original settings, BUT DON"T FORGET TO RECORD WHAT YOU ALREADY HAVE. Use "Save Current Setup" first, before you hit "reset default tuning settings".:banghead:

By the way, I'm in the Detroit area, too. And I'm a Yamaha guy. But that's another story.
 
There is a tool that will do the calculations for you automatically, and it will provide a graphical chart showing you all possible front/back spring values in order to keep your car perfectly balanced.
 
GrayPhantom47 thanks for the general staring point. One thing I haven't liked about Forza4 is the fact that every car I've driven floats around the track like a Greyhound bus. This tip puts my cars in better driving mode

BEM
 

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