Tuning the old Porsche '73 for stability (580PP)

[KAlex122]

Hi!

I asked Gemini for a tune for the old Porsche, as many seem to do nowadays.

It was a total desaster. Am I just to stupid to drive this car without downforce (no wing available)? Have any of you got a good 580PP tune for it where the back of the car doesn't fly of uncontrollably every lap at the Nürburgring? I only saw that level of uncontrollable oversteer from wheel drivers up to now. I never drove something where i absolutely had no chance getting the back in line again on a controller.

Thank you!

 

[lbpomg95]

The simplest way would be to get all 3 stages of weight reduction, and then add it all back on until the weight distribution is closer to 48/52.

Increasing initial torque on the LSD will slow down some of the twitchiness as well. I would also increase the natural frequency at the front to somewhere around 2.80. This will reduce body roll and power oversteer. It may also be worth increasing body height on the offchance the car is suffering with wheel arch rubbing.

I haven't tuned this car much specifically so I'm just going by what I've done with other rear engined cars.

 

[Highlandor]

Hi!

I asked Gemini for a tune for the old Porsche, as many seem to do nowadays.
View attachment 1523363View attachment 1523364
It was a total desaster. Am I just to stupid to drive this car without downforce (no wing available)? Have any of you got a good 580PP tune for it where the back of the car doesn't fly of uncontrollably every lap at the Nürburgring? I only saw that level of uncontrollable oversteer from wheel drivers up to now. I never drove something where i absolutely had no chance getting the back in line again on a controller.

Thank you!

Put everything back to stock then put medium tyres on the front and re-start your setup from there.

If it's still too much flying around, just put hards on the front, keep softs on the rear and build from there...

The more you keep throwing different things from different people, the further you'll be from getting where you want to be, especially at that track...

 

[KAlex122]

The simplest way would be to get all 3 stages of weight reduction, and then add it all back on until the weight distribution is closer to 48/52.

Increasing initial torque on the LSD will slow down some of the twitchiness as well. I would also increase the natural frequency at the front to somewhere around 2.80. This will reduce body roll and power oversteer. It may also be worth increasing body height on the offchance the car is suffering with wheel arch rubbing.

I haven't tuned this car much specifically so I'm just going by what I've done with other rear engined cars.

Wow. Thanks. That helped a lot.
Here is what i have now.

I still had an accident due to oversteer in the first try but from there on i could attack a lot more with this tune and it's pretty fun. A shame I won't know what I'm doing tuning myself even if i watch your videos a thousand times. ;-)

I don't like to mix 2 different tire compounda by the way. ;-)

 

[lbpomg95]

Wow. Thanks. That helped a lot.
Here is what i have now.
View attachment 1523403View attachment 1523404
I still had an accident due to oversteer in the first try but from there on i could attack a lot more with this tune and it's pretty fun. A shame I won't know what I'm doing tuning myself even if i watch your videos a thousand times. ;-)

I don't like to mix 2 different tire compounda by the way. ;-)

Sometimes staggered tyres are the only way to get a car to behave since PD won't let us add rear downforce to some cars.

There's a decent few other things you can do to help with oversteer though on most cars if you can't just add lots of rear downforce.

For power oversteer, you can:
-set anti roll bars higher at the front
-set natural frequency higher at the front
-set camber higher at the rear
-increase rear toe-in
-increase initial torque
-reduce acceleration sensitivity (20 or less usually for rear wheel drive cars)
-add ballast weight over the driven wheels (works wonders on front-heavy muscle cars)

For liftoff oversteer, you can:
-set anti roll bars higher at the rear to improve braking stability (helpful on front wheel drives)
-increase initial torque and braking sensitivity
-add ballast weight to the front end

You'll also find that the less overall grip your tyres have, the easier the car is to catch. You might find sports hard tyres more predictable because the changes in direction are happening more slowly.

 

[eran0004]

Hi!

I asked Gemini for a tune for the old Porsche, as many seem to do nowadays.
View attachment 1523363View attachment 1523364
It was a total desaster. Am I just to stupid to drive this car without downforce (no wing available)? Have any of you got a good 580PP tune for it where the back of the car doesn't fly of uncontrollably every lap at the Nürburgring? I only saw that level of uncontrollable oversteer from wheel drivers up to now. I never drove something where i absolutely had no chance getting the back in line again on a controller.

Thank you!

Your anti-roll bar is stiffer in the rear than in the front. That can cause the car to oversteer in the corners. Try making it softer in the rear than in the front. Same thing goes for frequency and dampers.

Your LSD settings look strange too, I would reduce braking sensitivity.

 

[Highlandor]

I don't like to mix 2 different tire compounda by the way. ;-)

Yeh, but you did quite like the tuner who turned to this when he couldn't stop MR / RR oversteer, so seems strange why you now say you don't like it.

It's also a quick, reliable, tried and tested method of sorting out that exact issue for that exact type of car, especially when there's so few details of all the other variables that can impact the handling.

And of course, you being so fond of AI, as many seem to do nowadays ;-) but then you ask for 'humans' to sort out the mess that AI gave you.

Top bloke 👍

 

[KAlex122]

Well, ok, i guess.

Not fond of AI. Just tried something.

Thanks for the middle part. Don't really know how to respond to the rest.

 

[Thetic]

580pp historic on Nordschleife is one of my favorite events. I struggled with this car also. In the end this is what i got for 580pp. It will still slide when doing fast speed corners on sector 2 at over 200kmh but the slides are pretty predictable and not that snappy. Wide body and 17" wide rims, normal offset. Brake balance can be all the way back at 4

 

[LateBrakR]

The first thing about your tune that screams to me is how you have camber reversed. And then the giant rear toe number which by itself slows your car down. There is a lot going right with this tune, the dampers are nice and free... but the parts aren't working together and the dampers aren't even doing anything. But it drives and doesn't fight itself too much.

I've fixed your tune, it's the first attachment. But even with harmony, the parts aren't working optimally like this. The car is a Widowmaker so it does want to slide, but the difference is that it is controllable now.

So I've also included a much faster handling suspension tune as well. Use my transmission with it, set the Auto Top Speed first. You have a rocket when you put them together. Change power output or tires however you want, this tune is balanced and in harmony and will work with all of that.

No widebody, running on factory wheels without widening anything. But you should be able to add all that and still run this tune just fine. Also, found my tune was sliding on a different track so I fixed it.

Wow. Thanks. That helped a lot.
Here is what i have now.
View attachment 1523403View attachment 1523404
I still had an accident due to oversteer in the first try but from there on i could attack a lot more with this tune and it's pretty fun. A shame I won't know what I'm doing tuning myself even if i watch your videos a thousand times. ;-)

I don't like to mix 2 different tire compounda by the way. ;-)

I