Tuning Troubleshooting

[luv2drive]

I've got a tuning problem, and looking for some advice. I'm definitely a novice tuner, but wanting to improve. I want to get to the point where I can take a "problem" with a car's handling characteristics and know what to do adjust it so that it handles more to my liking where I can push it harder and more confidently.

This particular car is an MR car and it has primarily an understeer problem. In general going through corners there is marked understeer - quite a bit of resistance - I feel like I constantly have to turn the wheel harder than I want to, and if I turn the wheel too hard I'm on that edge where the car will just spin out. Anything I've tried to fix this has resulted in either oversteer or lack of responsiveness/control.

One other issue - the car seems to spin out too easily with just the slightest nudge. There is one area on the track (I'm experimenting at Matterhorn) where just going over the rise and around the corner onto the big downhill portion, the car seems to lose all traction and often spin uncontrollably (makes for fun replays)

Bottom line - to keep this car under control I feel like I have to drive far too conservatively, and as a result lap times are much slower.

For comparison sake, I took another car (4WD) with 10 fewer PP and it was much more responsive and easier to push. I was able to get lap times of 5-7 seconds less.

I'm just using this as an exercise to learn more about tuning. I'm guessing it's very possible, even likely, that some cars are simply better suited to some tracks than others - but I'm very curious what's possible to tune a car to be easier to drive on a particular track as well.

Any advice or suggestions are definitely welcomed!

 

[Highlandor]

I've got a tuning problem, and looking for some advice. I'm definitely a novice tuner, but wanting to improve. I want to get to the point where I can take a "problem" with a car's handling characteristics and know what to do adjust it so that it handles more to my liking where I can push it harder and more confidently.

This particular car is an MR car and it has primarily an understeer problem. There is one area on the track (I'm experimenting at Matterhorn) where just going over the rise and around the corner onto the big downhill portion, the car seems to lose all traction and often spin uncontrollably (makes for fun replays)

When troubleshooting, the more info you can give, the more it increases your chances of getting an answer that'll help or resolve the issue.

Even some info that might seem irrelevant, could potentially be quite important in finding the answer.

Please can you provide details of:

Car
tyres
pp/power & weight
setup you're currently using (full suspension, brakes & LSD no's)
drivings aids on/of
online/offline

This will help immensely

Maybe not all of it is relevant, the info needed can be subjective, diferent people may want different info but the above is a good start 👍

 

[luv2drive]

I actually left off details purposefully because I don't want the actual car to bias the response. I'm not looking for the answer as much as to learn the methodology to adjust any tune.

If knowing the current setup is helpful, here it is:

Drivetrain: MR

492 pp / 407 hp / 1365 kg
RH: 88/88
Spr: 7.0 / 11.5
Comp: 4 / 4
Ext: 3 / 6
ARB: 3 / 2
Camb: 2.8 / 1.5
Toe: -0.07 / 0.05
BB: 4 / 3

LSD: 10 / 20 / 18

No aids except ABS:1

 

[DriftinAssassin]

I actually left off details purposefully because I don't want the actual car to bias the response. I'm not looking for the answer as much as to learn the methodology to adjust any tune.

If knowing the current setup is helpful, here it is:

Drivetrain: MR

492 pp / 407 hp / 1365 kg
RH: 88/88
Spr: 7.0 / 11.5
Comp: 4 / 4
Ext: 3 / 6
ARB: 3 / 2
Camb: 2.8 / 1.5
Toe: -0.07 / 0.05
BB: 4 / 3

LSD: 10 / 20 / 18

No aids except ABS:1

This is with a wheel, I assume? I don't have any experience with wheel tunes (if it is) but I would suggest a stiffer front suspension (spring rate, compression and expansion rate, and ARB) with a slightly softer suspension in the rear. For example, you could set it as:
Spr: 10.5/9.0
Comp: 6/5
Ext: 6/5
ARB: 4/4
The stiffer front increases steering response and a softer rear means the tires will be in more contact with the track.
Also, reducing the weight and then adding ballast towards the rear (or front) might get rid of some understeer. The car weight of the car is 1356 kg, pretty heavy and when braking might be putting a lot of stress on the front tires causing understeer. So reduce the weight some and add some ballast to the rear (or front in some cases). Example: an MR has more weight to the rear because of the engine so the front doesn't have any weight to push down on the tires. This means they aren't coming into contact with the track and that results in no grip meaning understeer.
So if this car is 1356 kg with, let's say, a 40:60 front/rear weight distribution this is how I would go about it. First, shed some weight. Get it to about 1100-1250 kg ideally. Then, add some ballast towards the front. Start with about 30kg of ballast at -30% (this moves the weight towards the front one the car. You don't need the full 200 kg of ballast but do play around with it an get it close to a 45:55 distribution. Keeps it all nice and balanced.
Try also considering a higher grade of tires. Sports Hard tires can only do so much. After a certain amount of HP, torque, suspension stiffness, weight, etc. they start to become useless. Maybe some Sport Soft tires can help with handling.
Is there a wing on the car? If so, how high do you have it set to? Too much downforce from a wing causes understeer. Set it lower. If there isn't a wing, have you tried it out? Might help with oversteer. If you do try to experiment with one keep the numerical value between 8-15.
The LSD settings seem fine. Personally I run them around 10/15/10 for MRs.

Hopefully this help and don't feel bad for asking for clarification, more help, or to completely blast me and tell me Im wrong.

 

[rams1de]

I agree with most of the above post.

You might take a different approach to damper compression settings if the worst of the oversteer is on corner entry when you want to allow weight over the front tyres. Lower front comp will help.

Lower front than rear ARB will also help reduce understeer in mid corner but you'd need to be careful as this can just as easily produce oversteer.

What was your starting point with camber? Ime in GT6 (and plenty others it seems) higher settings equate to less grip so too much camber leads to overall loss of grip. Adding camber to front will produce understeer and increasing rear camber gives more oversteer. Try going back to 0/0 and make very small adjustments, if any at all.

It's worth spending time learning to master LSD settings for your driving style as it seems to provide the biggest gain to overall stability. Suspensions settings appear to make very small differences to handling unless it's become more difficult in GT to find the best relationship between settings.

I've had the same problem with the corners you describe at Matterhorn, but the solution is more down to driving technique than tuning.

 

[luv2drive]

@DriftinAssassin, thank you! This is exactly what I was looking for. I will definitely experiment along the lines you suggested and see what I get

@rams1de, thanks for confirming that some of what I'm experiencing may be just the nature of this track.

Regarding damper settings, one thing I've always been confused about... does it make sense for the extension setting to ever be larger than the compression setting on the same side (ie. front or rear)? Generally I thought you wanted them to be equal or separated by 1 (comp being higher) for flat surfaces, and with more separation for undulating tracks like Trial Mountain, Norschliefe, and now Matterhorn, and then for the rear to be stiffer for oversteer and front stiffer for understeer. But I may be completely wrong about this, and I've seen some tunes that don't follow this, so I'm curious to all opinion

Also, on the subject of LSD, do you find it still has the same overall impact in GT6 as in GT5. @MotorCityHami used to call LSD the "super tune" in GT5, but I saw a post recently where he said it seems to be more balanced in its impact in GT6. Curious if you were referring to GT5 or GT6 with this comment.

Thanks again for your help!

 

[rams1de]

Regarding damper settings, one thing I've always been confused about... does it make sense for the extension setting to ever be larger than the compression setting on the same side (ie. front or rear)?

Yes it can work in a game. I'm using the same principles for dampers as I did in GT5, they work ok but less pronounced.

I look to front compression and rear extension to help control weight shift to the front of the car under braking and deceleration. Softer settings allow weight to move forward more easily thus decreasing understeer, stiffer settings help keep weight to rear for longer to reduce oversteer.

Rear compression and front extension adjustments help as the weight shifts to rear under acceleration when exiting corner. Softer settings reduce oversteer and stiffer settings reduce understeer.

Also, on the subject of LSD, do you find it still has the same overall impact in GT6 as in GT5.

Yes, more so in fact. You could get some great wins from wheel alignment in GT5 but camber in GT6 is off. I'm sure the top guys will be able to use it to their advantage to destabilise a car when needed, but I'm nowhere near that good and look to create something safe.

It's early days obviously but if I was allowed only one tuning upgrade in version 1.02 it would be fully customisable LSD.

 

[86Debris86]

I'm in the same boat as OP. Want to be able to know which settings to play around with to solve certain handling characteristics. Seems like a lot of good advice here.