Tuning Vs Driver Skill

[Stotty]

You don't have to be a driver to tune either.

Hmmmm, personally I don't think that's true. Example:

Driver A is 1s a minute faster than driver B.

A tune built by driver B will not be optimal for driver A.

A more skilled driver will be able to manage a higher level of entry rotation (a less stable car). A less skilled driver will never get to that level of rotation.

 

[Mt. Lynx]

Hmmmm, personally I don't think that's true. Example:

Driver A is 1s a minute faster than driver B.

A tune built by driver B will not be optimal for driver A.

A more skilled driver will be able to manage a higher level of entry rotation (a less stable car). A less skilled driver will never get to that level of rotation.

Again; ask an f1 engineer. They do not drive the car they set up. So theoretically (and obviously practically), you don't have to drive the car you tune. For more ref. see shared tunes in these forums.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

Again; ask an f1 engineer. They do not drive the car they set up. So theoretically (and obviously practically), you don't have to drive the car you tune. For more ref. see shared tunes in these forums.

But you have to have someone drive it and then tell you what it did so you can make adjustments to it.
I have did it both ways. Tuning a car you drive is much easier than tuning one you don't but it is possible to do a good tune without driving it yourself so long as someone does drive it and gives you accurate feedback.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Lol we should discuss if there's actually ways to make the car slower by tuning can you tune the car for B-spec driver? Someone should device a test to figure how slow you can make B-spec driver go hampering hes driving by giving him crooked suspension and LSD that would be brilliant way to tell how much the tune matters, what you guys think

You can make the car perform realistic/slower lap times with camber, toe, LSD and gearing from real life spec. I have found from many replica that I built with real life lap ( video + time ) as reference, having camber actually yield closer to real life performance ( cornering grip ) and handling traits. I have my Bob raced with replica many times, and Bob can still win with some guidance

PD need only to fix/reverse the effect of tuning values usually used on TT ( ride height, camber, LSD, gearing, ballast/stock distribution ) to fix the many faults. Right now, tuning for ultimate lap time is like "exploit the PD mistake" skill, as long as the car has unreal weight distribution, near open diff, gear flip, funky springs + damper and zero camber, it will usually be easy and quick to drive, bordering of becoming arcade car handling in terms of lateral grip/corner speed, braking distance and lap time With these aspects fixed, the car would be more realistic to the real counterpart, but don't think many will be happy with that

 

[ODB]

ou can make the car perform realistic/slower lap times with camber, toe, LSD and gearing from real life spec. I have found from many replica that I built with real life lap ( video + time ) as reference, having camber actually yield closer to real life performance ( cornering grip ) and handling traits. I have my Bob raced with replica many times, and Bob can still win with some guidance

So there's a way to make B-spec driver also faster by tuning. Now I think there would be a way to get some figures how much tune affects to lap time or what you think, I mean give him first stock car and sort out what's hes lap time on that tune, and then try in every possible way to make "Bob" go faster, and even slower, so there we would have some data how much tune affects to the actual lap time.

EDIT: Is there a way to make car so "loose" that Bob looses the control of the car easily, meaning there's a way to make him drive on "fast" tune that is just so hard to control he goes off the track?

 

[Johnnypenso]

Ask an f1 engineer.

If we were in an F1 thread that would be relevant. Seeing as how we don't have access to the mountains of data that an F1 engineer has, let's stick to GT6 tuning.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

So there's a way to make B-spec driver also faster by tuning. Now I think there would be a way to get some figures how much tune affects to lap time or what you think, I mean give him first stock car and sort out what's hes lap time on that tune, and then try in every possible way to make "Bob" go faster, and even slower, so there we would have some data how much tune affects to the actual lap time.

EDIT: Is there a way to make car so "loose" that Bob looses the control of the car easily, meaning there's a way to make him drive on "fast" tune that is just so hard to control he goes off the track?

Well obviously it depends on the car and the track. For example a stock muscle car on SSRX vs one that has been fully modified and has the gearing set to attain max speed. There will be a huge difference in the two but what does that really mean? I think pretty much anyone can add a bunch of parts and change the gear ratio. This does not make one a tuner nor does it mean that tuning is more important than driving skill.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

So there's a way to make B-spec driver also faster by tuning. Now I think there would be a way to get some figures how much tune affects to lap time or what you think, I mean give him first stock car and sort out what's hes lap time on that tune, and then try in every possible way to make "Bob" go faster, and even slower, so there we would have some data how much tune affects to the actual lap time.

EDIT: Is there a way to make car so "loose" that Bob looses the control of the car easily, meaning there's a way to make him drive on "fast" tune that is just so hard to control he goes off the track?

You can make loose car easily, shifting weight rearward, higher rear spring rate, lower rear ride height, rear toe out ( -0.50 or more for FF ), minimum rear aero, What generally makes a quick tune for a given driver ( human ) will also applies to Bob, but Bob is not perfect, Bob often lack the determination to make use of the car potential and needs some pushing to overtake others.

Fitting lower grip tire on rear wheels also very effective.

 

[Stotty]

Again; ask an f1 engineer. They do not drive the car they set up. So theoretically (and obviously practically), you don't have to drive the car you tune. For more ref. see shared tunes in these forums.

As others have said, F1 engineers have both reams of data on every measurable specific and the greatest drivers on the planet to give them very specific feedback on how the car is behaving and how they want it to handle.

Shared tunes are fine if you just want something better than stock but you're not too bothered about reaching your full potential in that particular car. If you want something 'perfect' for you, you need to pick a tune from someone around your level, and ideally, then have the ability to be able to adjust it to suit you.

 

[ODB]

If you want something 'perfect' for you, you need to pick a tune from someone around your level, and ideally, then have the ability to be able to adjust it to suit you.

Heh, I guess the whole question "tuning vs driving skill" is kind of absurd, they are suppose to complement each others not to be something to be measured them comparing to each other. And I have to say I still don't quite figure tuning that well (is there someone who does? ) but if I have a good base tune, it doesn't take much to make it suite my "style" and usually making the tune suit my style is only a matter of making the car more loose or stiff and that can be done on quite simple LDS, toe and ride height modifications. So even without knowing how to tune, as I get more comfortable with driving I can make some adjustments and tell the difference, so driving style skill and tuning goes hand in hand, so the original question is bit wrong in that sense, IMO..

EDIT: Better question would be "is there ways to make the car faster by tuning" then I think this conversation would have bit more base to it

EDIT: And by getting more comfortable with my driving you could say I'm becoming more and more aware of what I'm doing and what's happening, there fore being able to make the adjustments needed to make the car suite me better.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

Making a car looser or tighter can also be done by just adjusting the anti roll bars and/or spring stiffness. As a general rule the car will be looser on the tighter end so if the car is to loose you can either soften the rear or stiffen the front. If the car is to tight you would do the opposite.

Toe effects tire wear and can be a bad thing, it can also have an adverse effect on speed and acceleration when used on the rear though I am not sure how accurately this works on GT. Camber seems to not work at all the way it should.

As to the question of can a car be made faster through tuning that is a definite yes unless the car already has an optimal tune on it.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Heh, I guess the whole question "tuning vs driving skill" is kind of absurd, they are suppose to complement each others not to be something to be measured them comparing to each other. And I have to say I still don't quite figure tuning that well (is there someone who does? ) but if I have a good base tune, it doesn't take much to make it suite my "style" and usually making the tune suit my style is only a matter of making the car more loose or stiff and that can be done on quite simple LDS, toe and ride height modifications. So even without knowing how to tune, as I get more comfortable with driving I can make some adjustments and tell the difference, so driving style skill and tuning goes hand in hand, so the original question is bit wrong in that sense, IMO..

EDIT: Better question would be "is there ways to make the car faster by tuning" then I think this conversation would have bit more base to it

EDIT: And by getting more comfortable with my driving you could say I'm becoming more and more aware of what I'm doing and what's happening, there fore being able to make the adjustments needed to make the car suite me better.

Tuning a car to suit your style is the majority of tuning, there isn't much more to it than that IMO. Combine that with adding the right parts to maximize power for a given PP and tuning the transmission to keep the car in the powerband and you've got most of it covered right there. My theory on tuning in GT was that you can only really affect the balance of the car, not the overall level of maximum grip. Once you get the car tuned to drive the way you like to drive, the limiting factor is now you. The faster you get, the more you will change the balance of the car to achieve that speed and that change usually involves quicker rotation and balancing that rotation on a finer and finer edge.

 

[ODB]

The faster you get, the more you will change the balance of the car to achieve that speed and that change usually involves quicker rotation and balancing that rotation on a finer and finer edge.

Yes, and there's also a way to make car so loose that average driver has no benefit on it, when the "alien" driver just gets faster and faster when the tune gets "looser" loose meaning it allows you to do certain things and will not resist weight transfer! But yeah, it all comes down to the driver at the end of the day that is more than sure and proved by this thread

 

[Johnnypenso]

Yes, and there's also a way to make car so loose that average driver has no benefit on it, when the "alien" driver just gets faster and faster when the tune gets "looser" loose meaning it allows you to do certain things and will not resist weight change! But yeah, it all comes down to the driver at the end of the day that is more than sure and proved by this thread

What it does is allow you to rotate faster and get on the throttle earlier exiting a corner and ride the maximum slip angle the car/tire combination and the physics engine allow. That is available to all of us, most of us just don't have the skill to do it, so we tune slightly towards it, but we stop at the limit of our comfort zone. Aliens have different comfort zones...because Alien.

PC sims, indeed real life racing is no different, all that changes are how quickly you can rotate the car and what slip angles work. The principle remains the same though.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

OT: Just trying to figure out who that is in the avatar above. Is that by chance from the original Star Trek pilot episode?

Susan Oliver?

 

[ODB]

OT: Just trying to figure out who that is in the avatar above. Is that by chance from the original Star Trek pilot episode?

@Johnnypenso yeah, who is that lady and has it been the same girl all the time really keen to know

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

@Johnnypenso yeah, who is that lady and has it been the same girl all the time really keen to know

He seems to change it pretty often. I think that one is Susan Oliver
http://www.imdb.com/media/rm29207040/nm0647010?ref_=nmmi_mi_all_pbl_25

Of course if so that picture is almost 50 years old. She died in 1990. She was a looker back then for sure.

 

[Johnnypenso]

@Johnnypenso yeah, who is that lady and has it been the same girl all the time really keen to know

He seems to change it pretty often. I think that one is Susan Oliver
http://www.imdb.com/media/rm29207040/nm0647010?ref_=nmmi_mi_all_pbl_25

Of course if so that picture is almost 50 years old. She died in 1990. She was a looker back then for sure.

You got it. I'm in my Star Trek babe mode in honour of Spock's passing and that shot is from the original Star Trek pilot, "The Cage", that was later reworked into a two part regular episode. She was crazy beautiful.

 

[Grandea GTR]

I drive and tune, and needless to say, regardless of how great the tune is, that alone won't help me get a quick time or a great victory; they also need to go with driver's instinct, and, as time goes by, that will soon develop into driver's intuition.

I don't know if this happens to you guys as well, but if you get around in GT6 and take time to drive the wide variety of cars and the multiple iterations of the specific car classes there (Coupe, Sedan, SUV, Truck, Muscle, Sports, Supercar, LMP, Rally, Touring, NASCAR, etc.) you will begin to develop an automatic prediction of how a car new to you will handle, and naturally develop a feel specific for that car.

Driving Experience will overtake Tuning Experience by a longshot, no matter what. BUT, having both still will be a major benefit.

 

[alexnipi]

This is my own experience 350z tuned by myself 10pp difference

I don't know the other drivers