Turbo or not Turbo

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This may seem a daft question to some of our experts on here, but I'm by no means an expert so please help.
If I've got a car @ 500pp, fully tuned , but no turbo, is it worth putting on any sort of turbo which then pushes the pp over 500, so I have to drop the power limiter back down again.

I've run my own time trials with cars @ 500pp non turbo, then put on a turbo and dropped the power limiter back down to 500pp, and I can't see any difference between the 2 options.
 
What you're saying will flatten to torque-curve I believe. Useful when the car in question is difficult to control at mid to high revs. It will decrease wheel spin at that end of the rev range. I think. That's my (limited) understanding anyway (and is probably something you know already).

TBH I'm as curious as you about this since I don't have the full understanding I'd like to have, so I'm really just commenting to "watch" this thread. :)
 
What happens when you use the power limiter is the hp will decrease and flatten out, and with extreme limiter use, the torque will flatten also. You will have more torque this way which will increase acceleration capabilities but also increase chances of overpowering the tires. I am not sure if chances of wheel spin at the end of the rev range are decreased, but it makes sense, due to less power at the wheels.

Edit: Here is the link to a discussion from the tuning forum on power limiter use that may help.
 
What happens when you use the power limiter is the hp will decrease and flatten out, and with extreme limiter use, the torque will flatten also. You will have more torque this way which will increase acceleration capabilities but also increase chances of overpowering the tires. I am not sure if chances of wheel spin at the end of the rev range are decreased, but it makes sense, due to less power at the wheels.

Edit: Here is the link to a discussion from the tuning forum on power limiter use that may help.
I have noticed that as well that you keep the torque gain by adding the turbo even when you have to adjust the power limiter. I've suspected this to be a glitch, though I haven't sorted out the time to test anything much.
 
I have noticed that as well that you keep the torque gain by adding the turbo even when you have to adjust the power limiter. I've suspected this to be a glitch, though I haven't sorted out the time to test anything much.
Actually, I believe that what we are discussing with the torque is modeled correctly. I did a quick test with the Corvette Z06 '04 and the effect of power limiter doesn't affect peak torque until 84.5% power limiter. This would correlate to where the peak torque is located.

Test:
100% = 406 hp @ 6000 rpm = 399.9 ft-lb @ 4500 rpm
84.6 = 343 hp @ 5100 rpm = 399.9 ft-lb @ 4500 rpm
84.5 = 343 hp @ 4600 rpm = 399.7 ft-lb @ 4500 rpm
50% = 203 hp @ 3200 rpm = 336.4 ft-lb @ 3100 rpm

Note: I think there may be a bug in the hp rpm calculation because I have noticed it vary greatly when moving the limiter by 0.1% as demonstrated here, The torque is what is important here though.

So, if you have a car with peak torque at, lets say 3000 rpm and max rpm is 7000 rpm, you would not lose much (if any) torque when using the limiter.
 
I know this is off topic but @bluecharger, I'm just wondering why you have limited access to your page. PM me is fine so that we don't clutter up a thread.
 
Test with a turbo MX-5 Miata SR-Limited '97, max rpm did not change during all of this testing.

Stock test:
100% = 130 hp @ 6500 rpm = 115.7 ft-lb @ 4500 rpm
76.2 = 98 hp @ 4600 rpm = 115.7 ft-lb @ 4500 rpm
76.1 = 98 hp @ 5800 rpm = 115.6 ft-lb @ 4500 rpm
50% = 65 hp @ 5800 rpm = 104.1 ft-lb @ 3200 rpm

Low turbo test:
100% = 149 @ 6500 = 148.1 @ 4000
75.3 = 112 @ 5800 = 148.1 @ 4000
75.2 = 112 @ 5800 = 148.0 @ 4000
50% = 74 @ 3300 = 140.4 @ 2500

Mid turbo test:
100% = 157 @ 6100 = 167.8 @ 4500
91.1 = 143 @ 5100 = 167.8 @ 4500
91.0 = 143 @ 4600 = 167.7 @ 4500
50% = 78 @ 3600 = 134.5 @3000

High turbo test:
100% = 188 @ 7500 = 151.0 @ 6000
91.7 = 172 @ 6100 = 151.0 @ 6000
91.6 = 172 @ 6100 = 150.9 @ 6000
50% = 93 @ 3900 = 130.7 @ 3700

Supercharger test:
100% = 157 @ 6500 = 157.5 @ 4500
83.6 = 132 @ 5300 = 157.5 @ 4400
83.6 = 132 @ 5100 = 157.4 @ 4300
50% = 78 @ 3000 = 143.0 @ 2500

The test showed some surprising results and some that I expected.
 
The test showed some surprising results and some that I expected.
Allow me to help a brother out so you don't get nailed for quadruple posting:lol:
I need to look at some testing from real life (maybe NASCAR figures for Daytona vs. say California) to understand how cutting almost 20% of the air intake affects torque not a bit.
 
Allow me to help a brother out so you don't get nailed for quadruple posting:lol:
I need to look at some testing from real life (maybe NASCAR figures for Daytona vs. say California) to understand how cutting almost 20% of the air intake affects torque not a bit.
This is true, I was surprised with the difference of the mid turbo from stock, but the rest of it laid out like I imagined it would for how the game has modeled it. If I could get similar dyno numbers from real life to see how this would be done would be more helpful in understanding how it works, good point. 👍
 
Don't understand any of that lol.
As I said , I can run a lap without a turbo, and then there's no real difference with one on, the lap times are basically the same.
 
Don't understand any of that lol.
As I said , I can run a lap without a turbo, and then there's no real difference with one on, the lap times are basically the same.
Essentially, the important part is this.
You will have more torque this way which will increase acceleration capabilities ...
The reason you don't notice a difference is before, the combination of hp and torque gave you acceleration through the whole rpm range, while after, the increased torque gives more acceleration than before but there isn't as much hp to match it so it feels about the same. This may not be completely correct though.
 
Essentially, the important part is this.

The reason you don't notice a difference is before, the combination of hp and torque gave you acceleration through the whole rpm range, while after, the increased torque gives more acceleration than before but there isn't as much hp to match it so it feels about the same. This may not be completely correct though.
Apparently my internets is broken:odd:. I can't enumerate all the different ways I tried to pull up results spec sheets for NASCAR engines with/without restrictor plates and in the end got nada. Circle Track Magazine in particular is bad for coming up in the results but having no info related to my searches. I'm insane now and will simply wander away:tup:
 
Short: Essentially the power limiter is a torque limiter wherever the horsepower would exceed this value: (peak*limiter). A car with a flatter power curve with 5-10 less horsepower has the advantage because of a wider power band.

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Long:

Consider two scenarios, given multiple cars with the exact same aerodynamic properties and weight to control this.

Car 1 has an engine that has a flatter power curve at high RPM, its peak hp being 350 from 7000RPM to 9000RPM.
Car 2 has an engine with a slightly higher peak hp, but a shorter "power band", so to speak, its output ranging from 330hp to 370hp from 7000RPM to 9000RPM.

Car 1's power curve (plateau) is more desirable in this case. He's able to more reliably access his power without as much regard to shifting at an exact point on the power curve. As long as he makes is so the engine is at 7000RPM after he shifts up, he's lost no potential acceleration capacity.

Car 2, on the other hand, needs to worry about where he's shifting to make his power curve work, and he's also got to have his gears matched up to aid in tapping that power. He has more potential accelerating capacity for a short period of time, and in other places he's lagging behind.

Now then. It doesn't matter if Car 1 is at 7000 or 8500 or 7250 RPM on his power curve. If torque was all that mattered on cars, then we wouldn't care to measure power. Since power is a function of work done over time, we are interested in it when speed and acceleration come into play. Torque is important, but when we want to achieve high speeds we are not interested in where the car is making the most torque. We are interested where the most horsepower is being given.

Onto the matter at hand. You were taking a car with two setups with the same PP. The one without a turbo presumably had a higher peak horsepower output, from my understanding, because the game also takes power band width into account. The reason you experienced similar acceleration on both setups is because one reached its peak output earlier and flattened while the other build up more but eventually went higher. They both came out roughly the same in this case.

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A car seems to "pull" when it's accelerating out of low RPM because of the increase in HP toward its power band. In some cars this is a very steep climb in a short period of time.
A car's wheels will spin more easily if you launch it at peak horsepower instead of peak torque.
A car's aerodynamic top speed is more easily gauged when you aim to have that aero-limit in the power band.

Focus on horsepower, not torque. Torque is important, but we're interested in how much work the engine is doing to move the car in a given period of time. That's horsepower.

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Edit 1: As the person above me said, it's track-specific. Peaky vs. Flat depends, though I'd always recommend just a tiny bit of flattening on the curve. Maybe 0.5% to 1% at the least, if you can manage.

Edit 2: If two cars of the exact same weight and aerodynamic properties have the same torque at the same RPM, they will accelerate just as fast. If they have the same torque at different RPMs, then one will accelerate quicker. If they have different torque at the same RPM, then one will accelerate quicker.
 
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