Turbos on supercars?

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GodsLt

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GodsLt
Hey there guys, its GodsLt here with a quick question...Why can't you add turbos to most of the super cars? From what I understand, most engines have the ability to become turbocharged, rather than naturally aspirated. IMHO, I would LOVE a high RPM turbo kit on my Ferrari Enzo '02 to reach 1K+hp :sly:
on topic lol, really, why ca't you add turbos? I could understand if the cars would bring them pre-equipped, but they don't!:nervous:

If the Veyron can have one, I want one as well:grumpy:
 
It may be a requirement of the licence agreement, or it may be PD just trying t keep some element of realism.

Veyron already has 4 turbos so turbo upgrade kits are a more obvious addition
 
The engines of supercars are designed to withstand the power they're making and not insanely much more. Add even 0.5 bar of boost and "insanely much" just became a small amount compared to the stress increase.
 
Yeah, I thought both of the opinions above, but to Greycap, after performing all Engine improvements, wouldn't you agree that the engines would withstand the extra pressure added by the turbos? Or not even a turbo charger, but a super-charger should be doable....just like the SLR Mclaren. I was surprised that the super-charged V8 from he Mercedes was 1 hp away from my tuned Enzo....like WTF¡?

It came to my understanding that Engine improvement under the "engine" tab in the tunning section strengthens the engine and its components, or not? :S
 
GodsLt
Yeah, I thought both of the opinions above, but to Greycap, after performing all Engine improvements, wouldn't you agree that the engines would withstand the extra pressure added by the turbos? Or not even a turbo charger, but a super-charger should be doable....just like the SLR Mclaren. I was surprised that the super-charged V8 from he Mercedes was 1 hp away from my tuned Enzo....like WTF¡?

It came to my understanding that Engine improvement under the "engine" tab in the tunning section strengthens the engine and its components, or not? :S
Click to expand...

You are able to upgrade the Supercharger in the SLR because it's Supercharged from the factory AFAIK.

The Enzo engine was built to make its power by being Naturally Aspirated. Throw a turbocharger on there, and it may not be able to handle the increased stess, even with better components.

The Mercedes engine was built to be a Forced Induction engine, which means it was built to be durable to handle the added stress from the supercharger.
 
Strengthening isn't all that is needed for turbocharging. High performance NA engines usually have very high compression ratios, the Enzo for example having 11.3:1 and the 458 Italia 12.5:1 as stock. It's also often raised during tuning so figures approaching 13:1 for a very highly strung engine wouldn't be out of question.

Now, a higher compression ratio leads to higher tendency for detonation (also known as knocking or pinging) and turbocharging effectively increases the ratio even more. Nobody in their right minds turbocharges an engine with a compression ratio much above 10:1 because it would either require very high octane fuel or very low boost levels which would render the advantage pretty moot. Usual ratios for high boost engines are around 8:1 or even lower.

So turbocharging such an engine wouldn't only require serious strengthening all over the engine but also reducing the compression ratio quite a lot. Possible? Yes, with a lot of work. Sensible? In the vast majority of cases no, and I guess that's why it can't be done in the game.
 
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Gah...I didn't think of that... :ouch:
Anywho, I understand now! Thanks for the input guys! I would've never think about it on my own. Thank for clearing that out.

Now that we are discussing super cars, wouldn't you agree PD needs or HAS (lol) to add a frontal downforce to road cars that are not race modded?
 
It's also a choice made by PD (or car manufacturers themselves perhaps) which cars are regarded suitable or where it's deemed "appropriate" to fit a turbo or supercharger to I guess.
Not just technical limitations/realism (which ofcourse also plays a huge role) but historical (as in brand/model) accuracy and other factors may play a role too.
There are examples where in real life there are tuned turbo-charged version of (by tuning companies) but are impossible to turbocharge in GT5.
Sometimes this selection seems a bit random and strange though, on some cars you would expect this option but it isn't, whilst on some where it is possible (the '67 Le Mans cars for example) it just seems wrong to me.
 
The thing is, custom turbocharged Ferraris and Lamborghinis (amongst many others) do exist in the plentiful (take a gander at Underground Racing and Koenig). To be honest,I can see turbo upgrades to be a better idea than engine upgrades; how often do you see a race-built Enzo engine that's still NA? Never. How often do you see a twin-turbo Enzo? Rarely.
 
yeah, I would've thought the same thing. I kind of expected Ferrari to keep its affinity for naturally aspirated cars. I still think however, that you can squeeze an extra 90 hp out of a tuned Enzo's engine. Heck, if the Minolta with an engine half its size (displacement) scrapes the 1020 hp, why shouldn't the bigger engine hit higher hp's? Maybe I'm just being stubborn, I apologize lol.

One thing that bothers me, is that the transition from 1st to 2nd gear in the Enzo seems off, odd perhaps, because there is a considerable amount of time between gearshifts at those speeds. I found that kind of annoying...how it would change to second gear, bu would not keep on chugging along immediately....you guys seen the same thing? o am I doing something wrong...
 
NOS Waster
You are able to upgrade the Supercharger in the SLR because it's Supercharged from the factory AFAIK.

The Enzo engine was built to make its power by being Naturally Aspirated. Throw a turbocharger on there, and it may not be able to handle the increased stess, even with better components.

The Mercedes engine was built to be a Forced Induction engine, which means it was built to be durable to handle the added stress from the supercharger.
Click to expand...

Eh, it's all about the compression ratio. You wouldn't/shouldn't turbo an Enzo with stock internals to any decent level of boost any more than you would a Civic. Put some custom low compression pistons and no reason an Enzo couldn't run well on some boost. Exact numbers are the devil in the details, of course, and probably bad bang for the buck... but c'mon it's an Enzo we're talking about. People willing to spend such money on modding though are more likely to do an F-XX than an Enzo anyways, especially at this point, though.

Similar for the 2002 NSX Type-R... Spoon definitely puts a turbo on it... with a 3.0l engine instead of the NA 3.2... So does Factor X... It's definitely not for the cheap, though.

In game context, definitely no reason not to... except for the limited modding system we have. So, IOW I don't have a big problem with it, but would like more detailed modding with an advanced section capable of swaps, doing compression ratios and fuel and air flow monitoring/upgrades, etc. Should be able to blow up your poorly tuned motor on the track (requiring a rebuild from GT Auto, perhaps)... but starting to definitely push the envelope of the game engine.
 
OT. Why did we get over 1000hp on previous GT's to Skylines and Supras? I mean why did they take that number down? It's not like people don't have those cars tuned to much more than we can actually get in game.
I used to love to take one R34 or a RZ against real racecars and try to hang in there but with the sub 800hp it's just not possible anymore:tdown:
If i remember correctly we got +1000hp in GT1, GT2 and then in GT3 it was like 750hp and then in Gt4 it was +1000hp again. How do they decide what we can get out of those cars?
I find it weird that there are +1100hp Skylines and Supras roaming around Tokyo but we only get sub 800hp:grumpy:
 
I just want to put a twin turbo kit on a Ford GT to feed an upgraded supercharger. Why settle for one piece of forced induction when you can have three?
 
I also find it strange that they have decreased the hp numbers of certain japanese cars. The supra could be tuned to more than 725 hp, and supras out there have 800-1000 hp.
 
I think it's more in the license agreement than the functionality. There's no motivation from the PD side to keep the Italian cars (and some others) NA. Unless you think that Kaz et al care about whether or not the Japanese cars keep up. As a rule, you see most of Europe and Japan using turbos, US using superchargers, and Italian cars staying NA even though virtually all cars have different options IRL if you have the money to explore them.

The only issue I have with the aspiration of the Italians is that it limits the online usability. For example, I have 2 different F430's because the one with the engine upgrades can only get into high-HP rooms. In contrast, I have a R8 4.2 that adds about 400 hp with bolt-ons so it can run in many more settings.
 
Adding a turbo to a high compression NA engine will result in it going bang. You might aswel put a new engine in the car, as it would probably be easier than modifying those engines to be able to take a turbo, which defies the point, though thats not to say it isnt possible, it is possible.

On the subject of japanese cars, in previous games we could tune them up to as much as 1000bhp or more, which to be fair is realistically possible and people do actually do it. In GT5 however this is not possible. I have watched a lot of the "Dynoflash" videos on youtube, its a guy who owns a tuning shop that does work mainly on Subaru Impreza's and Mitsubishu Lancers, he gets some incredible numbers out of most of his cars, far beyond what those cars can be tuned to in GT5.
 
Greycap
Strengthening isn't all that is needed for turbocharging. High performance NA engines usually have very high compression ratios, the Enzo for example having 11.3:1 and the 458 Italia 12.5:1 as stock. It's also often raised during tuning so figures approaching 13:1 for a very highly strung engine wouldn't be out of question.

Now, a higher compression ratio leads to higher tendency for detonation (also known as knocking or pinging) and turbocharging effectively increases the ratio even more. Nobody in their right minds turbocharges an engine with a compression ratio much above 10:1 because it would either require very high octane fuel or very low boost levels which would render the advantage pretty moot. Usual ratios for high boost engines are around 8:1 or even lower.

So turbocharging such an engine wouldn't only require serious strengthening all over the engine but also reducing the compression ratio quite a lot. Possible? Yes, with a lot of work. Sensible? In the vast majority of cases no, and I guess that's why it can't be done in the game.
Click to expand...

This man speaks the truth. I used to be really into the BMW E30 3 series and on the forum I'm at, frequently people will turbocharge their cars. One of the prerequisites to doing so is installing pistons from a 325e block into a 325i engine. The 325e has physically shorter pistons and this effectively decreases the compression ratio of the motor. You end up with a high-torque turbo inline 6 that responds relatively well to turbocharging and will withstand the end of days.

This piston/block/head combo WITHOUT turbocharging is an absolute dog. Very slow and just doesn't run very well. Once you install the turbo and a good aftermarket fuel management system (Megasquirt) then it's a champ.
 

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