Twin-Plate vs. Triple-Plate Clutch Kit

[ALB123]

Ok. The twin-plate clutch says it "improves engine response, allowing for quicker gear changes and acceleration is improved..." whereas the triple-plate clutch says "engine response will improve, as will acceleration, but loss of revs and speed on uphill section will become more pronounced."

The twin-plate lists no negatives, the triple-plate lists a fairly significant negative. Now, I'm guessing we should assume that the improved engine response and improved acceleration will be slightly greater with the triple-clutch, hence it's price being double that of the twin-plate clutch, 7,000cr vs 3,500cr, respectively.

Would one be better served to install twin-plate clutches in their cars when racing/driving Matterhorn, for instance? Heck, even Spa has a long uphill (Kemmel Straight). There are few other hilly sections of other tracks in GT6 as well.

The cost to keep both clutches in your garage is so mall (10,500cr for both) that there is no reason not to have both, for different situations, if there actually is a measurable difference between the two clutches. I refuse to believe that the triple-plate clutch is superior in all situations just because it costs more. Has anyone ever done a comparison? I am not consistent enough to produce valid data otherwise I would spend a day doing just that.

Thoughts?

 

[Sick Cylinder]

Ok. The twin-plate clutch says it "improves engine response, allowing for quicker gear changes and acceleration is improved..." whereas the triple-plate clutch says "engine response will improve, as will acceleration, but loss of revs and speed on uphill section will become more pronounced."

The twin-plate lists no negatives, the triple-plate lists a fairly significant negative. Now, I'm guessing we should assume that the improved engine response and improved acceleration will be slightly greater with the triple-clutch, hence it's price being double that of the twin-plate clutch, 7,000cr vs 3,500cr, respectively.

Would one be better served to install twin-plate clutches in their cars when racing/driving Matterhorn, for instance? Heck, even Spa has a long uphill (Kemmel Straight). There are few other hilly sections of other tracks in GT6 as well.

The cost to keep both clutches in your garage is so mall (10,500cr for both) that there is no reason not to have both, for different situations, if there actually is a measurable difference between the two clutches. I refuse to believe that the triple-plate clutch is superior in all situations just because it costs more. Has anyone ever done a comparison? I am not consistent enough to produce valid data otherwise I would spend a day doing just that.

Thoughts?

I haven't noticed any difference in performance of cars between the upgraded clutches v the standard clutch or between the standard and carbon propshaft. I don't know if they do make any difference at all - I use manual gears with a wheel and sometimes use a clutch pedal and H pattern shifter. Maybe someone has compared lap times with the different options, but my guess is that differences will be so small as to be insignificant.

 

[kukenjitsu]

When I was still drag racing, I actually did some informal tests with those, and I noticed that each clutch was about .15 seconds faster in the 1/4 than the last (.1 for the driveshaft) and that is because each clutch is also a lighter flywheel which allows for a faster change in engine rpm. However, I am not sure if the clutch and what it does makes a difference.

 

[stuff1138]

You get quicker shifts with a dual plate clutch than the stock single plate clutch and the triple plate is quicker than the dual plate. More plates also allow the clutch to catch and hold a higher RPM when it clamps down again.

And it definitely makes a difference. Go buy a cheap low powered 4cy of your choice. Take it for a lap around your favorite track then install a dual plate clutch. The change in how it's shifting is pretty dramatic. Look at the RPMs and listen to the quickness at which the shifts happen.

here's a short article about the advantages:
http://mantic.com.au/sub_technical/multi_v_single.html

 

[332i]

IRL, a triple should be heavier generally and shift slower. Even without being heavier, it should shift slower. Triples hold more torque. Neither affect response or crank spool based on whether is a single, double or triple. That's all on mass. The advantage to multi plates is that your multiplying the contact surface and can hold more torque. Instead of holding the same amount of torque with one clutch, you're distributing the amount of torque each clutch holds. So if you use three clutches that can hold the same amount of torque each as one disc - if the friction plate on the flywheel can handle it, you can hold triple the torque in theory. More plates just take longer to hook up as you've got more moving parts that slip initially. I've used a twin plate before and it was useless, aside from the ability to hold 1000lbft of torque. They should have clutches that slip with too much torque upgrades.

Idk what they're talking about in regards to hills. The only thing I can think of when it comes to hills are hill starts, but they're a pain with all multi-disc and pucked clutches.

I use a pucked clutch IRL. Single disc flywheels with pucked clutches shift quicker than multi discs. The less pucks, the quicker the engagements. The more pucks, the smoother the engagement. They range from three to six pucks usually. Idk why they left pucked clutches out. The only reason a double would spool up quicker over a triple plate is due to less mass. That takes into account the whole assembly, though. Flywheel, clutch(es), pressure plate, etc. If you have a 30# flywheel paired up to a multi disc, the car isn't going to shift slower than it would with a single disc clutch. It just won't hold as much torque. I use an 8# flywheel, which is very light for a road engine that is set for track work. No matter, it all has to do with mass and engagements. The less moving and slipping parts and mass, the quicker the engagement.

Some of their part descriptions and there effects are ridiculous.

I have a single plate six puck and can't even shift as fast as it is capable of. I'd need an SMG or DCT trans.

 

[IfAndOr]

^^^ Interesting information @332i.

It made me go and Google pucked clutches. I understand now. 👍

In the game a slow shifting car with a standard clutch can definitely be improved by the fitment of a dual plate. But I never see any great performance upgrade with the triple. There maybe some, but it's negligible.

The trouble is that "tuning" a car usually involves fitting all the best bits - just because you can. So the various other stages are bypassed, even though they may be better.

Regarding the hill thing...

They should have clutches that slip with too much torque upgrades.

...perhaps they are trying to reproduce this effect. Can't say I've noticed it though.

It's a wonder someone hasn't done some testing on this subject.

 

[DolHaus]

^^^ Interesting information @332i.

It made me go and Google pucked clutches. I understand now. 👍

In the game a slow shifting car with a standard clutch can definitely be improved by the fitment of a dual plate. But I never see any great performance upgrade with the triple. There maybe some, but it's negligible.

The trouble is that "tuning" a car usually involves fitting all the best bits - just because you can. So the various other stages are bypassed, even though they may be better.

Regarding the hill thing...
...perhaps they are trying to reproduce this effect. Can't say I've noticed it though.

It's a wonder someone hasn't done some testing on this subject.

I believe @praiano63 did some testing and found that the fitting twin/triple plates gave lap time improvement over the stock clutch but the difference between the upgrades was negligible.

As for the RPM drop mentioned in the notes, I do not believe this has been tested

 

[praiano63]

I believe @praiano63 did some testing and found that the fitting twin/triple plates gave lap time improvement over the stock clutch but the difference between the upgrades was negligible.

As for the RPM drop mentioned in the notes, I do not believe this has been tested

Here it the post about my test.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...ysics-discussions.291068/page-11#post-9667578

 

[Wide Boy]

This is just PDs generic tuning parts being given generic names.
So in PD land the more plates the better the clutch & the quicker the gear change.
That's it if you want the last bit of speed fit them & the prop shaft.

The text for the triple plate is PDs quality control at work & belongs to the flywheel from GT5
You used to be able to fit lighter flywheels, they did let the engine rev quicker but as the text says would have a negative effect up long hills.

 

[ALB123]

The text for the triple plate is PDs quality control at work & belongs to the flywheel from GT5
You used to be able to fit lighter flywheels, they did let the engine rev quicker but as the text says would have a negative effect up long hills.

Why am I not surprised?

 

[332i]

^^^ Interesting information @332i.

It made me go and Google pucked clutches. I understand now. 👍

In the game a slow shifting car with a standard clutch can definitely be improved by the fitment of a dual plate. But I never see any great performance upgrade with the triple. There maybe some, but it's negligible.

The trouble is that "tuning" a car usually involves fitting all the best bits - just because you can. So the various other stages are bypassed, even though they may be better.

Regarding the hill thing...
...perhaps they are trying to reproduce this effect. Can't say I've noticed it though.

It's a wonder someone hasn't done some testing on this subject.

I wish they would model in slip. Not just from a standstill, but...say you add a stage 2 mid range turbo and end up with a bus load of torque, the clutch would sleep at peak torque or within a torque spectrum, unless you upgrade it. Yeah, it'd be kind of dumb because everyone would just throw better kits in, but it'd still be cool. Or maybe have it slip when it gets too hot. That'd be neat.

Pucked clutches are great. I <3 mine. Clutches are an interesting topic. Pucked ones are on-off switches compared to everything else is the only problem. I use a kevlar-kevlar clutch. Some people use metal clutches! You can drive around town semi-comfortably with mine. Sort of. If the flywheel was heavier, it woukd be much more user friendly. When you get on it and push, even spot on shifts can be pretty violent. Makes a satisfying BANG, but you don't get that momentum change between gears. It's just go go go lol. Never put one on a street car. Many people do. After using mine on the street sometimes...yeah lol. Pucked clutches are just not meant for starting from a stop or launching. Multi discs are good for launches as you can slip them without chewing up the friction plate on the flywheel. Fun stuff lol. Until it breaks.

On many road cars, the clutches will actually hold a fair amount of torque. It is the friction plates on the flywheels that cause slip, if the clutch is in good shape without crazy added power.

Stock Sachs clutches will often melt to a flywheel and fuse essentially under exrended high torque pulls. It's pretty funny actually lol. They're very common units, though. Only ones I use on road cars.

 

[Zenmervolt]

IRL, a triple should be heavier generally and shift slower. Even without being heavier, it should shift slower. Triples hold more torque. Neither affect response or crank spool based on whether is a single, double or triple. That's all on mass. The advantage to multi plates is that your multiplying the contact surface and can hold more torque. Instead of holding the same amount of torque with one clutch, you're distributing the amount of torque each clutch holds.

This is all true, but you're making one very big assumption here. You're assuming that overall diameter remains constant.

If you hold the overall diameter constant, a multiplate clutch will be able to handle more torque than a standard clutch. That's absolutely true.

However, if you hold the torque handling ability constant, a multiplate clutch (and, by extension, both the flywheel and pressure plate assemblies) can be smaller in diameter. By reducing the overall assembly diameter, you reduce the inertial effect of the assembly's mass and thereby help to improve the engine's responsiveness. I believe that PD views the multiplate clutch options in tuning as switching over to a smaller diameter assembly with the same torque-handling ability as the single-plate unit. If that's what they're intending, then the in-game descriptions are, broadly speaking, reasonably accurate.

For a real-world example of a car using a multiplate clutch to reduce the diameter of the clutch/flywheel/pressure plate assembly, look to the Porsche Carrera GT. Porsche needed to keep the engine low in the chassis, and a traditional single plate clutch would have required raising the engine a couple of inches to accommodate the necessary clutch diameter. So Porsche used a multiplate design which allowed the assembly's diameter to be even smaller than the clutch used on the much less powerful 911 models.

 

[stuff1138]

^^Yeah exactly, generally a multi-plate clutch has a smaller diameter and is made from lighter materials or with light weight in mind. Not always of course, just generally.

Another advantage of a multi-plate clutch is that when you have one large clutch the clutch pedal is harder to press. So if a car has a large amount of torque you can have a 2 or 3 smaller clutches instead of one large one offering an easier clutch pedal.

 

[The87Dodge]

I've recently started drifting in GT6. Should I install a triple plate clutch on my drift car? Will it affect it's drifting in any way?

 

[TexRex]

I've recently started drifting in GT6. Should I install a triple plate clutch on my drift car? Will it affect it's drifting in any way?

That may be better aimed at the drifting community, but I like to think it depends on the car. A lighter car with less power may benefit from the heavier flywheel (the clutch and flywheel are a mated pair in this instance) to maintain inertia and the resultant wheelspin, while a car with more power, a more usable power range, and better throttle response would end up offering more control to the driver if a lighter assembly were used. This, of course, all relies on the presumption that the upgrade actually does anything--I'm not convinced it does in the long run.

Also:

 

[The87Dodge]

That may be better aimed at the drifting community, but I like to think it depends on the car. A lighter car with less power may benefit from the heavier flywheel (the clutch and flywheel are a mated pair in this instance) to maintain inertia and the resultant wheelspin, while a car with more power, a more usable power range, and better throttle response would end up offering more control to the driver if a lighter assembly were used. This, of course, all relies on the presumption that the upgrade actually does anything--I'm not convinced it does in the long run.

I drift in a Toms Chaser, and it's weight is 1700 kgs (200 kg ballast, no weight reductions). What do you suggest I do?

 

[TexRex]

I drift in a Toms Chaser, and it's weight is 1700 kgs (200 kg ballast, no weight reductions). What do you suggest I do?

That's where I'm going to officially refer you here. I'm not familiar with the car so I couldn't help you.