Tyre temp and fuel load - colour me impressed

[P3nT4gR4m]

So I'm losing the will to live 5 laps into the first endurance race - 60 laps of grand valley

Let me put you in the picture - I can't be bothered racing AI for this length of time. I don't want an underpowered car and intense challenge, I just want to get a gold ASAP, pick up the credits and XP and never look back so I jump in the toyota minolta and, by T1 I'm 200 yards clear of a bunch of stock Nissans and Scobbies and whatnot.

I've stuck racing stickies on so by about 12 laps or so my tyres are going off. I'm 2 laps ahead of the pack so I figure what the hell and pull into kwik fit. How much fuel? - it asks. "Just fill her right up" I reply but this takes ages, the little guys who changed the tyres are away back to bed but the poor dude with the fuel tanks is still there, glugging away. And I still had over half a tank when I pulled in.

I made a mental note to skip the refuel next time. So now I'm trying to pass the time. And I decide to see how long I can make my tyres last if I completely baby it round the track. That's when I found out cool thing number 1 - because I'm driving too slow my tyres are not heating up properly. I've got no grip! I'm driving at half the speed I usually do and I can't keep the damn thing on the track. Surely not, I think, so I try giving it some welly...

And my grip is back. This isn't downforce grip either. If I hammer the revs just before a second gear corner I'm stuck to the road! Awesome - I think to myself and start paying attention to the little tyres icon - the lighter the blue, the more epic win you are entitled to.

So now I'm passing the time hotlapping and I've got it down to the low 1.40's if I don't get caught in traffic. But my tyres are going off again so I duck into the pits, remembering not to ask for fuel, I'm still on half a tank. Funnily enough, even on a tyres-only stop, fuel guy still feels the need to stick the nozzle in momentarily.

Anyway, a couple of hotlaps later and my fuel is well under the half tank and now my laps are down in the mid 1.39's. "No way!" I think so I keep going. Just before my tyres start melting again I've gone under 1.38!!! So I ask for no fuel again.

Sure enough I'm shooting low 1.37's and then, just when the fuel hits the redline I'm just under 1.37. Got scary then - cos I had a lap to go on no fuel, 57 laps in and really didn't want to run out of juice right then. Luckily I made it back to the pits for a splash and dash.

So there you go - tyre temp and fuel load are simulated. Tyre temp is especially impressive since, by keeping it high, you can throw in some awesome laptimes but that requires a slightly different driving style from normal hotlaps - one more thing to think about.

On the downside I tried the same car/track/tyres combo in timetrial and regret to inform that it performs as if you're running on a full fuel load. Upshot is your lap record in practice will never match that achievable in endurance races which is a bit of a bummer.

 

[cicohipe]

I've noticed the tyre temp stuff before too. It's really noticeable on the first corner of a race as you have fresh tyres and the car just wants to dive off the road.

 

[Stevisiov]

Yup, I see a big improvement from the previous game. There is an art to making the tyres last I have noticed. No wheelspin,less kerbs and your tyres last much longer.

Also haven't seen you for a while peedreientralalla, good to see you again 👍

 

[P3nT4gR4m]

Yup, I see a big improvement from the previous game. There is an art to making the tyres last I have noticed. No wheelspin,less kerbs and your tyres last much longer.

Also haven't seen you for a while peedreientralalla, good to see you again 👍

Likewise Stevisiov, sure we'll cross paths on the track sometime soon. Is the big german guy still around?

 

[No46_TheDoctor]

Now all we need are more high lap events in A-Spec instead of these stupid little 3 lap dashes, I mean 20-30 lap races.

 

[Zimmerd]

Yes, with fuel en tire wear simulated in non-endurance A-Spec events

 

[MidianGTX]

So I'm assuming (because you didn't specifically mention it) that once you refueled you noticed a couple of seconds raise in lap times?

 

[dredre]

and that ladies and gentlemen is where gran turismo shines. forza's tire physics were way out to lunch. 600hp awd with race tires and nothing but wheelspin. In reality the car would almost wheelie with race slicks and awd. and the fuel weight also plays a big part in pit stratagy, another area Turn 10 decided wasn't necessary.

 

[shirakawaa]

and that ladies and gentlemen is where gran turismo shines. forza's tire physics were way out to lunch. 600hp awd with race tires and nothing but wheelspin. In reality the car would almost wheelie with race slicks and awd. and the fuel weight also plays a big part in pit stratagy, another area Turn 10 decided wasn't necessary.

In GT5 fuel weight is taken into account only in Extreme events (I think, I can only B-spec them for now) and online races (which have fuel and tire depletion enabled by default). In lower level A-spec races, practice mode and arcade mode (even if fuel and tire depletion is enabled in single races), cars are lighter than they should be (a problem in practice mode, since it's not possible to tune suspensions to cope with the added weight).

There's however the additional problem that all cars in GT5 have a 100 liters fuel tank, no exception. So this means that lighter cars (which in real life would have a smaller fuel tank), in races where fuel weight is taken into account (online and maybe extreme events), have a larger handicap.

PD should either put realistic fuel tank sizes (possibly with an option to increase capacity... racing fuel tanks?) or let user select how much fuel to start the races.
After this, they'd also need to enable fuel/tire depletion and fuel weight in all races, since even in shorter ones it doesn't make sense to switch them off.

So GT5 fuel and fuel load management isn't perfect either. Actually it doesn't make sense in some aspects.

 

[MidianGTX]

So here's a question. Is tire temperature always enabled, for every event and practice mode? As far as I know, tire wear is turned off, but temperature should still be on, right?

Also, how is is represented? Just different shades of blue? I think it was Forza I played where tires would go from blue, through yellow, orange and into red gradually, but the only red I've seen on GT5 is when they lose grip. It's not a gradual shift to red, it just clicks on, so it's obviously a grip loss indicator rather than a temperature one.

 

[Owen.C93]

One challenge is going to the Nurb online. Where you set a time in free run mode. You have to be really gentle the whole lap otherwise your tyres are damaged before you start your lap. Very cool.

 

[shirakawaa]

So here's a question. Is tire temperature always enabled, for every event and practice mode? As far as I know, tire wear is turned off, but temperature should still be on, right?

Also, how is is represented? Just different shades of blue? I think it was Forza I played where tires would go from blue, through yellow, orange and into red gradually, but the only red I've seen on GT5 is when they lose grip. It's not a gradual shift to red, it just clicks on, so it's obviously a grip loss indicator rather than a temperature one.

In GT5 tire temperature is always enabled. It goes Blue -> Cyan -> Light Cyan -> Red.
When they're blue, they're cold, when they're red, they're overheated.
However I found out that the total range goes over the provided color codes.
In online races, although they're blue, tires appear to start much colder than in A-spec races and practice mode, they're very slippery in the first few hundred meters of use.
Also, tires can overheat so much (by doing burnouts, etc), that the red color no longer represents the actual tire temperature, as if the indication caps out at a certain threshold.

 

[Jarmo]

So here's a question. Is tire temperature always enabled, for every event and practice mode? As far as I know, tire wear is turned off, but temperature should still be on, right?

Also, how is is represented? Just different shades of blue? I think it was Forza I played where tires would go from blue, through yellow, orange and into red gradually, but the only red I've seen on GT5 is when they lose grip. It's not a gradual shift to red, it just clicks on, so it's obviously a grip loss indicator rather than a temperature one.

Temperature is always enabled. I think the indicator only shows the temperature of the tires' surface. With wheelspin the tires quickly turn red and return to blue pretty fast afterwards.

 

[P3nT4gR4m]

Tire wear is also indicated, if you imagine your tire indicators are 4 little health bars, the level drops down as the tires go off.

 

[ken2903]

The amount of fuel on board made a difference to your lap times in GT4 too, in the endurance races at least. The tyre thing is new though, can't wait to try it.

 

[Hypergolem]

I love this description you made of your race experience and it makes me appreciate even more this great game or better this simulation. I still don't understand the constant whining from users who think this should play like NFS... Guys this is for the real drivers and please stop crying about the shadows... who cares about the shadows...

 

[Dapper]

Great thread, and well put also! I ran a 10 lap race around Autumn Ring Mini Reverse last night, and my lap times dropped alomost every lap. By lap 10 tire grip was premium, and it was my fastest lap of the race. This was done in a Eunos, and building heat takes much longer than in a higher HP car. And I was using Sport tires, which take much longer to warm up than race tires.

Later I competed in a 3 lap race around Nurburgring, but I didn't know tire wear was turned on. Racing in a Tuned 370Z on race tires, by the middle of lap 3 I had very little grip left in the tires. Then, my 7 second lead turned to dust being thrown up by my skidding car along side the road.

 

[Vaga]

My S2000 rear racing softs lasted for 8 laps in Grand Valley event while drifting and smoking on every turn so after the first pit I started being gentle with the gas pedal, doing best laps one after another, managed to reach lap 28 before the second pitstop and that's because my front tires wore out faster than the rear from all the heavy braking and turning, so yeah tire physics are very well simulated.

Fuel tank/consumption on the other hand needs a rework, hopefully they'll lower the 100L volume or increase consumption rate and include the option for choosing fuel quantity before race.

 

[sunnygsm]

Tire wear is also indicated, if you imagine your tire indicators are 4 little health bars, the level drops down as the tires go off.

This was so awesome. I took my 370z drifting on racing slicks (noob drifter btw). After a few attempts I had completely burnt my rears out, they wouldn't move at all! Just spun and the car stuck in place

 

[cjrciadt]

My S2000 rear racing softs lasted for 8 laps in Grand Valley event while drifting and smoking on every turn so after the first pit I started being gentle with the gas pedal, doing best laps one after another, managed to reach lap 28 before the second pitstop and that's because my front tires wore out faster than the rear from all the heavy braking and turning, so yeah tire physics are very well simulated.

Fuel tank/consumption on the other hand needs a rework, hopefully they'll lower the 100L volume or increase consumption rate and include the option for choosing fuel quantity before race.

Agree on both your counts 👍
Completed the GV twice already, once with my ZR1 RM, and once the Mazda Furai

The Vette lasted about 21 laps before i cooked the rears tires(soft racing). Then after short shifthing, and easing on the gas i got 28 laps instead on the next run. The Furai lasted 26 laps right off the start on Medium Racing slicks. My setup was not right for the track but still was pretty fun. On fuel consumption the Vette lasted about 40 laps full to empty. While the Furai still had about 1/8 lefted of fuel when done, no refueling during the race

Also, we need the "Keep Current" option when we pit for tires or fuel. With the improved wear now, we can now try to double or triple stint tires in the long races like in real life. It was a useless option in GT4 because of how fast tires would wear, but it makes sense here now.

 

[xchristox]

So I'm losing the will to live 5 laps into the first endurance race - 60 laps of grand valley

Let me put you in the picture - I can't be bothered racing AI for this length of time. I don't want an underpowered car and intense challenge, I just want to get a gold ASAP, pick up the credits and XP and never look back so I jump in the toyota minolta and, by T1 I'm 200 yards clear of a bunch of stock Nissans and Scobbies and whatnot.

I've stuck racing stickies on so by about 12 laps or so my tyres are going off. I'm 2 laps ahead of the pack so I figure what the hell and pull into kwik fit. How much fuel? - it asks. "Just fill her right up" I reply but this takes ages, the little guys who changed the tyres are away back to bed but the poor dude with the fuel tanks is still there, glugging away. And I still had over half a tank when I pulled in.

I made a mental note to skip the refuel next time. So now I'm trying to pass the time. And I decide to see how long I can make my tyres last if I completely baby it round the track. That's when I found out cool thing number 1 - because I'm driving too slow my tyres are not heating up properly. I've got no grip! I'm driving at half the speed I usually do and I can't keep the damn thing on the track. Surely not, I think, so I try giving it some welly...

And my grip is back. This isn't downforce grip either. If I hammer the revs just before a second gear corner I'm stuck to the road! Awesome - I think to myself and start paying attention to the little tyres icon - the lighter the blue, the more epic win you are entitled to.

So now I'm passing the time hotlapping and I've got it down to the low 1.40's if I don't get caught in traffic. But my tyres are going off again so I duck into the pits, remembering not to ask for fuel, I'm still on half a tank. Funnily enough, even on a tyres-only stop, fuel guy still feels the need to stick the nozzle in momentarily.

Anyway, a couple of hotlaps later and my fuel is well under the half tank and now my laps are down in the mid 1.39's. "No way!" I think so I keep going. Just before my tyres start melting again I've gone under 1.38!!! So I ask for no fuel again.

Sure enough I'm shooting low 1.37's and then, just when the fuel hits the redline I'm just under 1.37. Got scary then - cos I had a lap to go on no fuel, 57 laps in and really didn't want to run out of juice right then. Luckily I made it back to the pits for a splash and dash.

So there you go - tyre temp and fuel load are simulated. Tyre temp is especially impressive since, by keeping it high, you can throw in some awesome laptimes but that requires a slightly different driving style from normal hotlaps - one more thing to think about.

On the downside I tried the same car/track/tyres combo in timetrial and regret to inform that it performs as if you're running on a full fuel load. Upshot is your lap record in practice will never match that achievable in endurance races which is a bit of a bummer.

This is the main reason I play online so much. I love both tire wear and fuel usage so I create my own mini-endurances online

 

[shirakawaa]

On the downside I tried the same car/track/tyres combo in timetrial and regret to inform that it performs as if you're running on a full fuel load. Upshot is your lap record in practice will never match that achievable in endurance races which is a bit of a bummer.

I noticed only now this paragraph in the original post. According to some tests I did (mainly acceleration tests), it's actually the opposite. On time trials, the arcade mode (even single races with tire and fuel depletion activated), and A/B-spec races without fuel/tire depletion, cars perform as if they have an empty fuel tank*. Some of my lighter cars I tuned up in practice mode suffer the added rear end weight so much that they're almost undrivable in online races.


*for example, the Citroen 2CV 0-80 Km/h acceleration time on the Fuji Speedway main straight, on online races is 4 seconds worse than normal, which appears to be coherent with an added load of 100 liters (75 Kg) of fuel.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

Tire temp and wear was a big factor in GT4 as well for those of you who have forgotten.

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

Tire temp and wear was a big factor in GT4 as well for those of you who have forgotten.

That's what I thought as well yet it's been a long time since I played Gt4. This is common in PC sims.

 

[t.o.]

and that ladies and gentlemen is where gran turismo shines. forza's tire physics were way out to lunch. 600hp awd with race tires and nothing but wheelspin. In reality the car would almost wheelie with race slicks and awd. and the fuel weight also plays a big part in pit stratagy, another area Turn 10 decided wasn't necessary.

Not really true.