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- GTP_Brent
ISSUES THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED AND DISCUSSED ON THE GT4 DRIFT FORUM:
These are some feelings Ive been sitting on for a long time. The events that have taken place here this week have been just enough to set me over the top and let them go public. Im not here to defend or to condone anyones actions, Im just going to say things how I see them.
I'm sure all the regular forum viewers have noticed an increase in the amount of locked threads due to flaming in the past few months. I believe most readers of this forum are pretty quick to push the blame on one member in particular. After all, he always seems to position himself at the center of the controversy.
However, I dont think this is a fair description of our problem nor do I think this attitude of ours is entirely appropriate. Yes, there is one member who does seem to cause a lot of commotion and disarray in almost every thread he breathes on. But, I think he is always at the center of the controversy because WE insist on him being put there. All it takes is one Initial D-ism or the notion of comparing drift and grip times to get the flame war started. Give it about 30 minutes a perfectly good thread will have degenerated into a frenzy of spitting and name calling.
I know you know what Im talking about.
I dont write this to defend his actions. Ill say it clean and clear right now that many of his posts seem out of place and/or bothersome to me too. But so what? I notice a lot of other forum regulars making off-topic posts as well, and they dont get harassed about it to the same extent. Why should his one post spell the end of what may have been an engaging and helpful topic of discussion?
In other instances (as we shall see), it is clear to me that he was not the aggressor in the thread, but was rather engaged for something that transpired elsewhere. Personally, I find this even more bothersome than the first case.
Lets just look at some examples to see what Im actually ranting about
EXAMPLE 1
This came about 40 or so posts into a discussion on controller types:
Ok, I found myself necessarily involved in this one because my (former) name was brought into it. I addressed the post with a quick 1-liner, and then made an attempt to steer this conversation back on topic. I thought things were still looking good. Unfortunately my post was immediately followed by:
Well, that was the straw that broke the camels back. Next came 30 way off-topic posts, primarily from 2 or 3 members who found it necessary to publicly flog each other and kill an otherwise interesting discussion topic in doing so. Neither side was willing to drop the issue despite a fair number of attempts by other members not involved to bring the thread back on topic. And neither side thought it might be more prudent to continue the name calling and personal digs with PMs so the rest of us could continue our discussion.
I was appalled by how this altercation was handled (particularly because of the status of one of the members involved). Guy 1 admits he was just trying to be humourous since when has that become a sin? He didnt insult anyone in his initial post. And apart from being a little off topic, no terms of the AUP or TOS were broken. Have we just lost our sense of humour or is it our common sense?
How could this have all been prevented? Just skim over the useless post and continue on the regular conversation topic its really just that simple. Lets continue.
EXAMPLE 2
First post of a brand new video thread:
Second post in the brand new video thread:
Where did that stab in the eyes come from?
I know theres some history between the two members, but I dont feel that Guy 2 was justified in his attack on Guy 1. There was nothing provoking in the video or the first post it came totally out of past occurences. If Guy 2 needed so badly to let Guy 1 know what he thought then it could have gone through the PM system. Guy 2 is mature enough and has been on the forums long enough to know that. Bringing it out into the open invites the rest of the forum onlookers into the dispute. Thankfully these comments were disregarded and the thread continued normally...for about another 8 posts or so.
EXAMPLE 3
This one is still going on .
Second post in a new thread
Ok, Guy 1 is really just making a pest of himself here theres not a doubt in my mind about that, and all of you should realize that too. But rather than just ignoring or allowing the mod squad to tackle it, people start typing on impulse and all of a sudden 23 off-topic posts pop up in the space of about 12 hours.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Theres numerous other examples I could pull-out. I only chose these few because they stuck out in my memory and I could recall where they were most of all because they illustrate what I want to say.
So, the point of this post:
He is not the sole cause of this problem of ours. We, as regulars on the GT4 drift forum are all playing some part. Unless you are brand new to the forums and truly have no idea what or who this post is referring to, then youre a part of it in some way or another. GTP staff included, no exemptions or exceptions.
Everyone on either side of this issue needs to grow up a little bit and truly ask yourself if what youre thinking of posting is going to contribute to the intended conversation topic. Unless your answer is a definite yes, then you have no business hitting the submit reply button. Im sick of walking into threads about B-spec drifting for instance, just to see a bunch otherwise intelligent people acting like an angry mob of prepubescent idiots in a mudwrestling match.
Yes, I realize everyone is tired of all the ID analogies and drift vs grip ideas that he brings into threads I am too. Then I look at what some of you type in your responses in these threads gone bad and I truly cant picture sane human beings on clean air behaving this way. Stop using the anonymity the internet provides as an excuse to be as immature as you please.
Why cant we learn to just look beyond his comments and on to the next post. Flaming him for his actions brought us no good thus far. His behaviour has not changed, and frankly I believe he likes the attention it gets him.
Let the ignorant be ignorant, and leave the childish to be childish theres nothing here forcing you to stoop to their level. Keep your dignity intact and simply ignore it. Moreover, if you are not involved in an off-topic dispute, then dont take it upon yourself to become involved in it.
Simply stated: mind your own business.
If you absolutely cannot tolerate what has been said or has transpired do the sensible thing and either report the post or handle the matter with PMs.
I want this problem to end now. It has gone on for far too long already and Im not afraid to say that it has been handled miserably by everyone here. I used to enjoy coming to the forums and discussing the topic of the day with all of you. But lately it has been impossible to even discern what the topic of discussion is amongst all the flaming.
Im not saying we all have to pretend to be best friends, people are allowed to have their differences. All I want is for this forum to regain its ability to host discussions and/or debate without people making it personal or becoming offended at the first mentioning of the word tofu or Takumi. This should not be too much to ask.
And to him: dont be chuckling to yourself thinking youre getting off lightly in this post. You need to clean up your act or no one is going to put any stock in a single word you type.
These are some feelings Ive been sitting on for a long time. The events that have taken place here this week have been just enough to set me over the top and let them go public. Im not here to defend or to condone anyones actions, Im just going to say things how I see them.
I'm sure all the regular forum viewers have noticed an increase in the amount of locked threads due to flaming in the past few months. I believe most readers of this forum are pretty quick to push the blame on one member in particular. After all, he always seems to position himself at the center of the controversy.
However, I dont think this is a fair description of our problem nor do I think this attitude of ours is entirely appropriate. Yes, there is one member who does seem to cause a lot of commotion and disarray in almost every thread he breathes on. But, I think he is always at the center of the controversy because WE insist on him being put there. All it takes is one Initial D-ism or the notion of comparing drift and grip times to get the flame war started. Give it about 30 minutes a perfectly good thread will have degenerated into a frenzy of spitting and name calling.
I know you know what Im talking about.
I dont write this to defend his actions. Ill say it clean and clear right now that many of his posts seem out of place and/or bothersome to me too. But so what? I notice a lot of other forum regulars making off-topic posts as well, and they dont get harassed about it to the same extent. Why should his one post spell the end of what may have been an engaging and helpful topic of discussion?
In other instances (as we shall see), it is clear to me that he was not the aggressor in the thread, but was rather engaged for something that transpired elsewhere. Personally, I find this even more bothersome than the first case.
Lets just look at some examples to see what Im actually ranting about
EXAMPLE 1
This came about 40 or so posts into a discussion on controller types:
Guy 1
Ok, I found myself necessarily involved in this one because my (former) name was brought into it. I addressed the post with a quick 1-liner, and then made an attempt to steer this conversation back on topic. I thought things were still looking good. Unfortunately my post was immediately followed by:
Guy 2
Well, that was the straw that broke the camels back. Next came 30 way off-topic posts, primarily from 2 or 3 members who found it necessary to publicly flog each other and kill an otherwise interesting discussion topic in doing so. Neither side was willing to drop the issue despite a fair number of attempts by other members not involved to bring the thread back on topic. And neither side thought it might be more prudent to continue the name calling and personal digs with PMs so the rest of us could continue our discussion.
I was appalled by how this altercation was handled (particularly because of the status of one of the members involved). Guy 1 admits he was just trying to be humourous since when has that become a sin? He didnt insult anyone in his initial post. And apart from being a little off topic, no terms of the AUP or TOS were broken. Have we just lost our sense of humour or is it our common sense?
How could this have all been prevented? Just skim over the useless post and continue on the regular conversation topic its really just that simple. Lets continue.
EXAMPLE 2
First post of a brand new video thread:
Guy 1
Second post in the brand new video thread:
Guy 2
Where did that stab in the eyes come from?
I know theres some history between the two members, but I dont feel that Guy 2 was justified in his attack on Guy 1. There was nothing provoking in the video or the first post it came totally out of past occurences. If Guy 2 needed so badly to let Guy 1 know what he thought then it could have gone through the PM system. Guy 2 is mature enough and has been on the forums long enough to know that. Bringing it out into the open invites the rest of the forum onlookers into the dispute. Thankfully these comments were disregarded and the thread continued normally...for about another 8 posts or so.
EXAMPLE 3
This one is still going on .
Second post in a new thread
Guy 1meh
Now, the video I'm making...that's interesting...well maybe not...but it's a lot more interesting that this...
...what are we talking about again? *yawn*
Ok, Guy 1 is really just making a pest of himself here theres not a doubt in my mind about that, and all of you should realize that too. But rather than just ignoring or allowing the mod squad to tackle it, people start typing on impulse and all of a sudden 23 off-topic posts pop up in the space of about 12 hours.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Theres numerous other examples I could pull-out. I only chose these few because they stuck out in my memory and I could recall where they were most of all because they illustrate what I want to say.
So, the point of this post:
He is not the sole cause of this problem of ours. We, as regulars on the GT4 drift forum are all playing some part. Unless you are brand new to the forums and truly have no idea what or who this post is referring to, then youre a part of it in some way or another. GTP staff included, no exemptions or exceptions.
Everyone on either side of this issue needs to grow up a little bit and truly ask yourself if what youre thinking of posting is going to contribute to the intended conversation topic. Unless your answer is a definite yes, then you have no business hitting the submit reply button. Im sick of walking into threads about B-spec drifting for instance, just to see a bunch otherwise intelligent people acting like an angry mob of prepubescent idiots in a mudwrestling match.
Yes, I realize everyone is tired of all the ID analogies and drift vs grip ideas that he brings into threads I am too. Then I look at what some of you type in your responses in these threads gone bad and I truly cant picture sane human beings on clean air behaving this way. Stop using the anonymity the internet provides as an excuse to be as immature as you please.
Why cant we learn to just look beyond his comments and on to the next post. Flaming him for his actions brought us no good thus far. His behaviour has not changed, and frankly I believe he likes the attention it gets him.
Let the ignorant be ignorant, and leave the childish to be childish theres nothing here forcing you to stoop to their level. Keep your dignity intact and simply ignore it. Moreover, if you are not involved in an off-topic dispute, then dont take it upon yourself to become involved in it.
Simply stated: mind your own business.
If you absolutely cannot tolerate what has been said or has transpired do the sensible thing and either report the post or handle the matter with PMs.
I want this problem to end now. It has gone on for far too long already and Im not afraid to say that it has been handled miserably by everyone here. I used to enjoy coming to the forums and discussing the topic of the day with all of you. But lately it has been impossible to even discern what the topic of discussion is amongst all the flaming.
Im not saying we all have to pretend to be best friends, people are allowed to have their differences. All I want is for this forum to regain its ability to host discussions and/or debate without people making it personal or becoming offended at the first mentioning of the word tofu or Takumi. This should not be too much to ask.
And to him: dont be chuckling to yourself thinking youre getting off lightly in this post. You need to clean up your act or no one is going to put any stock in a single word you type.
It came really arrogant..
