Verifying GT4 physics by experimenting

[sucahyo]

First, I don't have GT4. But I am trying to find out if GT4 is worth the price (both console and game). The reason I play GT2 is it help my real life driving, atleast it's not ruining it. So I play because it's wonderfull real life physics simulation. And I want to know if the improvement in physics in GT4 is worthy or not.
I don't care about real life car vs GT version performance figure, since it can be tweak by adjusting the car property on later version. What concern me is the physics engine behaviour, ie the weight transfer on different ride height or something like that.
To find out I have to know the general rule of car tuning. But I am not aware any game physics test in GT4 exist (except the great braking test by Scaff 👍 ).

Finding the conclusion on many thread is hard, because it seems the general tuning rule is still a debat. I see that in this section even a tuning guru's have diffulty arguing about suspension effect with newbie. Although many statement is based on real life or user guide or personal experience, there are still many people that don't believe it.
So, can any of you that have time to test it and show the result of those test in data or picture? I think it should make us understand it better. And even a newbie can force the expert to believe it .......
The test should be the effect of spring rate, ride height, damper, camber, toe, stabilizer, brake balance controller, downforce, gear, TCS, ASM or tire on acceleration and braking.

The test method can be:

• Analytical test, by using data logger or speed recording or drag strip time.
• Visual, by using picture or video to show the effect of TCM.
• Side by side visual, by using picture or video we show two car with different tuning lined up in drag strip (2 player). We can see the effect easier this way. And if you have partner you can test cornering performance too! ie. testing the difficult to answer toe in effect.......
  And because I see some people have problem with TCS and ASM on 2 player arcade, I think you should turn off both.

To make the result more conclusive the test should covered all drive train (FF,FR,MR,RR,4WD).
I guess this only possible for you that have time to do this, since this test can be very lengthy . And that is also the reason why I am asking everyone, not someone.
I do some of the above test in GT2, but I can't find something to compare in GT4.
The reason I post this in GT4 tuning thread is to get the comment from those of you that interested in tuning, you must have some clue of what GT4 physics engine behaviour is.

 

[Scaff]

I don't know if you have seen the following but they do fit the profile of what you are looking for.

The first 'GT - A Comparison across the series' looks at how the series has evolved and does contain some references to real life vehicles. The main point here is how far on GT4 moves the series in comparison to previous games.

The second is 'M3 - An analysis of tyre choice' which looks at how different tyre types react in comparison to real-life data, which should be of direct interest to you.

From my own job (I'm a training consultant in the motor industry) I have used GT3 and GT4 in training environments and with the correct presentation have used it to demonstrate real life driving characteristics. This is something I would never use GT or GT2 for, as in my opinion, its does not represent handling characteristics realisticly enough, particularly in regard to understeer.

Regards

Scaff

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

GT4 has good physics but if you really want to see a games physics engine work well get Forza for the XBOX.
You could also get Enthusia. It has good physics too but not as good as Forza.

 

[Scaff]

GT4 has good physics but if you really want to see a games physics engine work well get Forza for the XBOX.
You could also get Enthusia. It has good physics too but not as good as Forza.

Sorry but I can't agree that one is better in all areas that the others. Owning all three games I would have to say that they all have strengthes and weaknesses.

Forza has one of the best set of braking and brake lock-up models I have come across, but understeer is very poorly modeled and far too weak.

GT4 has poor modeling of true brake reaction (although the numbers are on the money - the ABS is always on) and a general inability to do handbrake turns and donuts. However the high speed handling traits and understeer modeling are very good.

Enthusia is a nice balanced model, but cars on race tyres are very poor, high speed drifts are far, far to easy to catch and recover from. Handbrake turns and donuts etc are however handled excellently.

Overall not one of these is perfect, they all have strengthes and weaknesses. For my money one of the single most complete console physics engines is Richard Burns Rally.

Regards

Scaff

 

[identti]

Scaff seems like the right person to listen too. I'm very annoyed though that you cannot master doughnuts like in GT3. I know its insignificant, but it was fun trying to get a proper doughnut going, and then maintaining it.

 

[sucahyo]

GT4 has good physics but if you really want to see a games physics engine work well get Forza for the XBOX.
You could also get Enthusia. It has good physics too but not as good as Forza.

Can you explain what physics emulation is better? I interested in spring rate, ride height, toe, camber, etc, which is basically tuning effect for the car.
So, when I feel the car understeer I will do what we should do in the real life car (although I do it in reverse, when I can correct the understeer by increasing front camber, I assume it will be the same in real life).

I don't know if you have seen the following but they do fit the profile of what you are looking for.

Yes, I read it, that's way I said the car data can be tweak in later version. IMO, to make the car match the real world statistic, changing the car data is enough. But handling and behaviour, which is not mentioned in statistic, have also to be done in source code.

From my own job (I'm a training consultant in the motor industry) I have used GT3 and GT4 in training environments and with the correct presentation have used it to demonstrate real life driving characteristics. This is something I would never use GT or GT2 for, as in my opinion, its does not represent handling characteristics realisticly enough, particularly in regard to understeer.

I see, too bad we can't compare the understeer behaviour side by side, it would be very hard to do......
It's interesting that you actually use GT4 in your bussines! When you use it, do you use stock or modified car (to make the car more closer to real life)?

What tuning that you suggest to make the GT2 have the same understeer behaviour as GT4?

Sorry but I can't agree that one is better in all areas that the others. Owning all three games I would have to say that they all have strengthes and weaknesses.

Overall not one of these is perfect, they all have strengthes and weaknesses. For my money one of the single most complete console physics engines is Richard Burns Rally.

Interesting, you chose GT4 over the other when making presentation for customer...........
So, in all three games do you try to modified the car to mimic real car as close as possible when judging it?

Missing handbrake is ok for me , I think I will try Richard Burns Rally.

As for physics engine, I want to know if GT4 is better than GT2 in tuning area, ie. when I increase spring rate, it will make the car understeer etc.

 

[nos2]

I would say the GT4 physics is not as real as GT3. Especially the spring rate and down force. I mostly tune my cars for drift in GT. The suspension settings seems to have less effect on the car than GT3, and down force have too much effect on the handling at low speed. some of the setting are really weird because of this.

 

[Scaff]

I would say the GT4 physics is not as real as GT3. Especially the spring rate and down force. I mostly tune my cars for drift in GT. The suspension settings seems to have less effect on the car than GT3, and down force have too much effect on the handling at low speed. some of the setting are really weird because of this.

Could not disagree more with you on this one, sorry about that.

GT3 had very little in the way of realisticely represented understeer, far to mild in its effect. Oversteer is far to easy to initiate, catch and control.

I personally find GT4 to require far more thought about how the weight is distributed in order to get the car to do what you want.

With regard to tuning, the GT series has always been a 'dumbed' down version of reality (very much so with the brakes) but at least with GT4 it appears to have taking into account what extreme settings can do.

Regards

Scaff