Virtual drivers a danger in the real world!

[Pebb]

Source: 4car

Drivers who play computer or video virtual racing games are more dangerous when they take to the wheel for real, according to research from Germany published this week.

The research team, from the Ludwig-Maximilians University, Munich and Allianz Centre for Technology, found that the drivers (198 men and 92 women) they studied were more liable to take risks on the roads, more likely to race other drivers and to overtake, and were more aggressive - yet had, on average, slower reaction times than those who had not been playing the on-screen games. They were also more likely to be involved in an accident.

However, the differences in driving behaviour were more apparent in the men studied than in the female drivers.

This study, published this week in a psychology journal, echoes similar findings from a survey of 1,000 drivers by driving school BSM, which found that 27% of drivers aged under 24 - mostly male - admitted to taking more risks on the roads after playing computer games.

 

[Mt. Lynx]

hahah! Can´t you make a poll in that first post, to see if it true for GTP as well?

You could ask "are you more likely to take a risk after playing XX game?"
or something similar.

 

[Scaff]

Now let take a closer look at just how the research was carried out.

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=38338
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=38317
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6457353.stm

As you can see none of this testing or research involved a subject playing a driving game and then driving a real car, they were either asked how they felt (oh how scientific) or judged thus "....some were asked to drive in critical traffic situations on a computer simulator".

So basically put this research is based on letting someone play a racing game, then getting them to drive a sim or just asking how they now felt and then using the results to claim this is how they would drive in a real car on a real road.

Sorry but this research simply is not worth the paper its printed on, utter cack.

Regards

Scaff

 

[EJRocky]

Yeah... we had something like this on Neoseeker (an old forum of mine which I don't visit anymore). Some effin' moron was playing Burnout 3 (which is a stunning game), then went out onto the street in his '67 Camaro. He raced another kid, and the Camaro guy crashed into an MPV killing everyone inside it (including kids I think), killing himself, and maybe injuring a few pedestrians. The message is clear then:

KEEP IT OFF THE STREETS AND ON THE SCREEN!!!

 

[Joey D]

I've seen it around here quite a bit, people play GT4 and become very good at it, so they think they are racecar drivers. I remember many moons ago someone was taking a trip to the Ring, and people were actually suggesting that he play a lot of GT4 in order to get better at the track. Sure these games are realistic but I think some people get a false sense of themselves when they play them.

I've been playing racing games all my life and has it made me a better driver? Maybe, I do have quicker reaction times but I think that's from gaming in general, but I think I'm more apt to speed now.

 

[Scaff]

I've seen it around here quite a bit, people play GT4 and become very good at it, so they think they are racecar drivers. I remember many moons ago someone was taking a trip to the Ring, and people were actually suggesting that he play a lot of GT4 in order to get better at the track. Sure these games are realistic but I think some people get a false sense of themselves when they play them.

I remember the thread very well, and that's not quite an accurate representation of what was said. People advised (myself included) that GT4's version of the 'ring is a useful tool to get a rough working knowledge of the layout of the 'ring, in terms of which corners follow which, etc. However the thread was also full of strongly worded advice to remember that GT4 is a game and that on no account should anyone try and match times or do anything other than treat the real track with the respect it fully deserves.

Driving games and sims used as an aid to learn a track layout has been quite common at various levels of motorsport for quite a while now, remember Seb Loeb was quite open about learning the layout of the LeMan 24hr circuit from GT4, as the only time he had to study it was flying between WRC events.

So long as someone is capable of distinguishing between reality and a game (and that does cover the vast majority of adults) its not an issue.

I've been playing racing games all my life and has it made me a better driver? Maybe, I do have quicker reaction times but I think that's from gaming in general, but I think I'm more apt to speed now.

A good solid sim does, in my opinion, allow you to gain an understanding of the basic physics at play in a car. In a past job I have used GT3 (with a DF set-up) to teach the basics of understeer and oversteer to delegates on product launch courses before letting them out in real cars.

Was it exactly the same? No of course not and its not a real substitute either, but it does allow a degree of familiarity to be introduced. It depends entirely on the sim used and how it is used (but that's true of all aids used in a training environment).

In regard to making you more apt to speed, well I'm not going to argue with that, for you. That does not however make it a general rule that can be applied to everyone; a friend of mine drives far quicker with Trance Music playing (in particular The Orb or Future Sound of London - why I have no idea), does that mean its true for all. Of course not, nothing and I do mean nothing removes the personally responsibility of the driver to control a car in a safe manner. Driving games are no more or less of a factor it that, than anything else.

Sorry but I just don't buy into this "I killed all the puppies because GTA taught me how to do it" nonsense, it's a poor defence of people who are unwilling to accept personal responsibility for there own actions.


Regards

Scaff

 

[turboash78]

I remember when I used to play a lot of GT4, then drive somewhere immediately after, I would definitely drive much faster and 'racier'.

 

[Joey D]

It's one thing to use a sim like GT to learn a track when you are a professional racing driver, but some 16 year old kid should not be learning anything from a video game.

You have to remember for every person with common sense there are going to be those without it and they think because they can race in game means they can go out in real life and do just that. I realize not everyone is impressionable, but I willing to bet there are more that are that are not.

 

[ND4SPD]

I remember many moons ago someone was taking a trip to the Ring, and people were actually suggesting that he play a lot of GT4 in order to get better at the track.

I remember not many years ago, Boris Said was using GT4 to practice the Nurb before entering the Nurburgring 24hr race as he barely ha dany experience on the Nurb himself. I also believe that he eventually won the actual race too. Not that I'm saying GT4 is completely realistic, it does show It can somewhat help people when it comes to the track layout of actual tracks.

 

[Wolfe]

Fun fact: People who drive aggressively and/or like to race on public roads are more likely to enjoy playing racing games than those who don't drive aggressively at all.

Funny how all of these "videogames and real-world behavior" studies always seem to get their results backwards.

I've seen it around here quite a bit, people play GT4 and become very good at it, so they think they are racecar drivers. I remember many moons ago someone was taking a trip to the Ring, and people were actually suggesting that he play a lot of GT4 in order to get better at the track. Sure these games are realistic but I think some people get a false sense of themselves when they play them.

Having driven around the 'Ring myself, I must say that the countless laps I logged on the track in videogames (starting with the roughly-approximate PGR2 version, moving onto the much-more accurate GT4 and Enthusia versions) really helped make the experience easier and smoother. Having the course memorized, I knew exactly what corners to expect, when to expect them, and how to take them safely. I even put my videogame experience to use on the GT4 full-motion simulator they had at the Nurburgring museum, and when my father saw my virtual lap in an M3 GTR, he felt better about riding shotgun on our two laps later that day.

So did I base my driving on my experience in those two games? Well, if I had done that with GT4 I would have killed myself on the first corner, and Enthusia isn't really close enough to reality either.

The only game that has ever truly influenced the way I look at real-world high-speed driving (regardless of whether or not I go out and try anything I learn) is Live for Speed, and I think most people here would agree that out of all racing games, LFS is one of the very best to learn from.

 

[Scaff]

It's one thing to use a sim like GT to learn a track when you are a professional racing driver, but some 16 year old kid should not be learning anything from a video game.

Again a gross generalisation, it depends on the 16 year old. One who has been racing since a young age would still be more than capable of learning a track from a game/sim.

You have to remember for every person with common sense there are going to be those without it and they think because they can race in game means they can go out in real life and do just that. I realize not everyone is impressionable, but I willing to bet there are more that are that are not.

I don't believe I disputed that people can be influenced by a huge number of factors, rather that it does not absolve them from personal responsibility. Should we put warnings on everything simple because a small number of people may be influenced in a negative way by them? Personally I don't think so. However none of the above changes at all the simple fact that the research this thread is about is fundamentally flawed. You can't make claims about how someone will drive in the real world by simple judging them on a simulator after they have played a less realistic driving game. The subject knows the sim is not real, a change in perception and attitude (not to mention controls and other stimuli) that is more than enough to invalidate the results.


Regards

Scaff

 

[Kylehnat]

I would argue that playing racing games/sims since age 9 made me a better driver. Most racing games require you to be smooth in order to do well; that certainly translates nicely to the real world. The other lessons learned are pretty much useless. Only idiots play racing games, and assume they've mastered the art.

As for professionals...

Boris Said used GT4 to learn the 'Ring? Great. He's Boris Said, and we are not. Sebastien Loeb first tackled the virtual Sarthe before racing the real thing? Great. He makes his living driving through the forest at 80 mph, and we do not. Professional racers are professionals for a reason. The rest of us are delusional children.

 

[Joey D]

I've seen several people, not that it is scientific or anything, but I have seen people, mostly in high school think they were good drivers because of a video game. Video games do not represent real life because you can't feel the g's, if the car starts to go you can feel the slippage, and you certainly can not feel the sense of speed. The only way to do that is to get in a car and do it yourself.

Again a gross generalisation, it depends on the 16 year old. One who has been racing since a young age would still be more than capable of learning a track from a game/sim

Ok so the generously given 95% of teenagers that get there license and have never raced anything shouldn't be learning from a video game. Not many kids race, unless you count weekend go-karting. Racing is expensive to get into and I just don't see that many people getting into it. I think through out middle school and high school I knew 1 or 2 kids that raced, and I think in college I know like 10 but most of them auto cross their daily drivers.

 

[Gil]

I've been playing the GT games for as quite a few years now.
Do I drive like an idiot? No more than I used to, but now I pick better lines.
I do tend to look quite a bit further up the road to anticipate "issues" so that I don't have to test out my "slower" reaction times.

In point of fact, I believe that I am a better driver not only because of GT2, GT3, and GT4, but because of the hundreds of thousands of miles I have actually driven on this nation's highways, and good counsel I received as a young driver.

 

[Keichi Tsuchiya]

Now let take a closer look at just how the research was carried out.

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=38338
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=38317
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6457353.stm

As you can see none of this testing or research involved a subject playing a driving game and then driving a real car, they were either asked how they felt (oh how scientific) or judged thus "....some were asked to drive in critical traffic situations on a computer simulator".

So basically put this research is based on letting someone play a racing game, then getting them to drive a sim or just asking how they now felt and then using the results to claim this is how they would drive in a real car on a real road.

Sorry but this research simply is not worth the paper its printed on, utter cack.

Regards

Scaff

I doubt that its saying that ALL who play video games are a hazard, more of a " those who play racing games are 2.3% more likely to be a danger in the real world" idea. Ease off.

Either way, I'll hold judgment until I drive in real life myself. I doubt it would affect me (the vid games, but there are others out there...

 

[Scaff]

I doubt that its saying that ALL who play video games are a hazard, more of a " those who play racing games are 2.3% more likely to be a danger in the real world" idea.

They actually said the following (taken from the BBC link above)...

"Those in the field of road traffic safety should bear in mind the possibility that racing games indeed make road traffic less safe," the researchers warned.

...so it would seem they are implying this in a very general manner.

Ease off.

I fail to see why I can't comment on this?

I believe that the research here is flawed in a number of rather series ways, how ever it is being used in the mainstream media to characterise those who play racing/driving games and sims as being more dangerous behind the wheel. I don't understand why I should not voice my own opinion on this?

Either way, I'll hold judgment until I drive in real life myself. I doubt it would affect me (the vid games, but there are others out there...

A difference between us here then, as I am commenting as a driver (of many years), one who has quite a wide range of experience on the road, track and proving ground. Many, many factors may influence driving behaviour, yet to suggest that professionals in the field of road safety take games and sims into account in their planning is more than a bit over the top. Its a knee-jerk reaction to an unproven theory and as much of value in actually saving lives and reducing accidents on the road as the blanket use of speed cameras (i.e. not a lot at all, if any).


Regards

Scaff

 

[3-Wheel Drive]

And what about people like me who don't drive more aggressively after playing racing games, because our cars cannot do it?

My car is a top-heavy, SUV with rear drum brakes and no ABS, running on tires that wear like iron, with barely enough power to get out of its own way. I can only drive so aggressively before I fear I could roll my car or rear-end someone at a stoplight. And there are lots of people out there with cars like mine. There is a reason you don't see aggressive drivers running around in old Isuzus.

 

[Slick Rick]

I would be a safer driver if I never played any driving simulators definately.

 

[Famine]

Boris Said used GT4 to learn the 'Ring? Great. He's Boris Said, and we are not. Sebastien Loeb first tackled the virtual Sarthe before racing the real thing? Great. He makes his living driving through the forest at 80 mph, and we do not. Professional racers are professionals for a reason. The rest of us are delusional children.

It's perfectly normal to use car racing games to learn tracks. They don't teach you how to drive the track FAST, but they DO teach you which way it goes next. On a track like the 'Ring, that's got to be helpful, no matter how inept a buffoon you are.

 

[stumpydino]

doesnt really affect me, iv noticed tho the music im listening to affects how i drive but nothing major really : / iv driven for long enough to know how to be a calm driver lol

 

[Sakiale]

Once at the NYIAS, I was at the Saturn booth because they had a simulator... with an Ion. I had just been playing GT2 before I'd left (maybe 2 hours ago) and was hyper about the autoshow and the sim (oh, and I was 10 years old at the time...). When the Saturn woman told me "now now, no speeding or crashing.." I was disappointed, but after I climbed into the semi-realistic cockpit (which had an automatic transmission and real Saturn-like fabrics and dashboard/wheel) I did keep it below 40 (The one time I floored it I got bored before it hit 60 anyway ) and didn't crash. I probably would've gotten a perfect score/bonus (the screen at the end showed your 'score' and how well you drive) but my friend tried to 'help me shift' and moved the lever into reverse. Of course I yelled the crap out of him and my demand for a second turn got turned down, but what does that tell you? : "Don't bring a 10 year old with you while driving!"

In subsequent years, I successfully rallied an Impreza Sti Rally edition in a Subaru cockpit-GT4 sim, which was excruuciiatingly painful to wait for, because the two old men in front of us, even though they knew exactly how to shift (it was manual tranny), kept it below 50mph!! . Oh my god that was soooo fricking slow. But yeah, I didnt hit a single wall.. And then in '05, I kept a pursuit going in MW for 25 minutes. Then the guy behind me got pissed off waiting, so I gave it to him... I got to heat 5 and was in a Ford GT.

 

[McLaren]

You're talking about a research that's based on teens who play video games...in Germany.

C'mon man! Anyone knows you can't take a research project on speeding and Germans seriously. They're like, I don't know, the fastest d*mn folks on the road. Those people just like to drive fast.

 

[harrytuttle]

Sorry but this research simply is not worth the paper its printed on, utter cack.

Seconded. Although I did have to look up the definition of "cack"....

These reports (or, at least those who report on the research) always neglect the most glaring problem: correlation does not equate causation. But who cares about that when you've got a sensationalist story that "makes sense" to the common idiot reading the story? Or some other common idiot practicing law, looking for publicity.