Volvo (estate), A4 or 5 series??

[555]

I am not dismissing the Accord because of what you have said, i am dismissing the Accord because we have rented one before (and as i have said 3 times now) it was absolutely horrible. We havent just "seen" one, we have driven it, please understand this. I don't deny the Type R is good and fast, but not feezable for 3 grand!

An Alfa Romeo?? We want something that is less likely to break down than the Supra not more likely. Plus i actually think Alfa's are really ugly (except the new Brera!)

The majority of cars we could get, would not be quicker than our Supra, despite what you insist is correct. Especially nothing you have sudgested.

89% depreciation is alot, but we buy to keep, not make a profit on re-selling. Besides all "luxury" saloons like Merc & Audi's are losing money on the 2nd hand market now for some reason. Its just the way things go. And actually according to Parkers, thats slightly over-priced, so will do some hagling if we do get it, i dont think we will, if its as slow as you say. Plus the colour was so dull.

Is 2 years "much newer"??? Not really IMO.

You two seem to really like your torque steer.

PS i like what time your last post was done at Famine

 

[Famine]

I am not dismissing the Accord because of what you have said, i am dismissing the Accord because we have rented one before (and as i have said 3 times now) it was absolutely horrible. We havent just "seen" one, we have driven it, please understand this. I don't deny the Type R is good and fast, but not feezable for 3 grand!

You dismissed ALL Accords as "boring and slow" based on experience of one car. I brought up the Type-R not as a potential car to buy but as a glaring example that not ALL Accords are "boring and slow". Nothing more.

The majority of cars we could get, would not be quicker than our Supra, despite what you insist is correct. Especially nothing you have sudgested.

Again, here's the numbers:

1992 Toyota Supra (non-turbo) - 184hp, 0-62mph 8.5s, 126mph
1998 Alfa Romeo 156 2.5 V6 Lusso - 192hp, 0-62mph 8.1s, 141mph
1996 Volvo V70 T5 CD - 240hp, 0-62mph 6.9s, 155mph

So, far from "nothing you have sudgested" (sic), the Alfa IS, in fact, quicker than your Supra, as is the Volvo (by some considerable way). In fact, if you fancy looking it up, MY car is as quick as your Supra is.

An Alfa Romeo?? We want something that is less likely to break down than the Supra not more likely. Plus i actually think Alfa's are really ugly (except the new Brera!)

Other than hilarious electrics, Alfa reliability isn't that shoddy. The insides are very pleasant indeed, it's quicker than your Supra and in your price range.

Whether or not you think it's ugly is besides the point - it won't be YOUR car.

89% depreciation is alot, but we buy to keep, not make a profit on re-selling.

Yeah. The point was that cars ought to lose somewhere around 30%-35% of their value every three years. So any 9 year old car should be priced somewhere around a quarter of its original price. A 9 year old car which is only 11% of its original price should set alarm bells ringing.

Besides all "luxury" saloons like Merc & Audi's are losing money on the 2nd hand market now for some reason. Its just the way things go.

Want to know why? It's because every innovation they come up with filters onto every other car in the market 2-3 years later, devalueing the car by removing the only competitive edge it had.

3 years ago, the only cars you could get with Sat Nav were top-end BMWs, Mercedes, Jaguars and that sort of thing. Now a Vauxhall Corsa comes with Sat Nav as a cost option.

Is 2 years "much newer"??? Not really IMO.

It really, really is. For example, your Audi A6 was superceded by a completely new model just 1 year after it was made.

A 2 year newer car is also 24,000 miles newer. All the parts on it have been subjected to 2 years/24,000 miles less wear, 2 years/24,000 miles less exposure, 2 years/24,000 miles less abuse from their idiot owner. Think of all the life left in one set of shock absorbers on a two year newer car, for instance...

PS i like what time your last post was done at Famine

Well spotted!

 

[Danny]

Other than hilarious electrics, Alfa reliability isn't that shoddy. The insides are very pleasant indeed, it's quicker than your Supra and in your price range.

Too true. My uncle's '99 166 2.0 had amusing windows. One press of the button it goes down, then back up in five seconds flat.

 

[555]

I said i wasnt going to argue with el Famine anymore, but you give me no option. Despite what your "facts" & "figures" show, our supra does 60 in a considerable less time that 8 secs and most definately has more 184hp.

I know that the Volvo's are relatively quick, which is why thats at the top of our list.

Do you have to take everything i say 100% literally?? Ok the accord type R isnt Boring, but Accord's within our price range are, so why are we talking about them. Move away from the Honda, step away from the Type R.

It wont be my car, but i will be in it. And my dad wont get a car that i dont like (& especially that my mum dosent like), some people are nice like that.

Why is it when i simply ask for an opinion on a car, i get lectured an insulted?? And get offered opinions that wern't asked for, i am not being rude, but i did say, that he wants either an Audi, BMW or a Volvo. So if we could can we please stick to those cars?? or do you want this thread to closed down too?

 

[Famine]

I said i wasnt going to argue with el Famine anymore, but you give me no option. Despite what your "facts" & "figures" show, our supra does 60 in a considerable less time that 8 secs and most definately has more 184hp.

Then it isn't a standard, non-turbo MkIII, like you claimed it is.

I think the issue is that you just don't have any experience of cars - which comes out loud and clear in all of your posts in these two threads - and you think the Supra is fast because it is the fastest car you've ever been in. Newsflash - it isn't fast.

Why is it when i simply ask for an opinion on a car, i get lectured an insulted??

No-one's insulted you. And, if you ask for opinions, that's what you get.

And get offered opinions that wern't asked for, i am not being rude, but i did say, that he wants either an Audi, BMW or a Volvo. So if we could can we please stick to those cars?? or do you want this thread to closed down too?

I have no desires related to this thread either - and you should note what the moderator who closed the last one said. Go back and read it.

If he only wants an Audi, BMW or Volvo, and he wants a four door car under £3,000 with any kind of speed, but doesn't want it with high mileage (like the A8 you shot down in the last thread), he's out of luck. Simple as.

Alternatives are offered, by people who wish to help you out, which fit "his" criteria simply because they DO fit "his" criteria, whereas the Audi, BMW and Volvo options do not.

 

[555]

I never said we dont want high mileage. It would be better to have less miles obviously, but we know we going to get high mileage on any old car.

A) i do know about cars,
B) the supra isnt the fastest car i have been in, i've been in a Diablo thank you
C) according to the gubbins/history we have its not been modified, but i have always said (not on here, but to others) i thought our car was modified.
D) When we first got the car, i timed it at 4.5 secs (on stop watch) to 60! I know thats extremely quick & likely wrong, but there is know way i am 4 seconds out.
E) most books on cars say Supra's do 60 between 5 & 6 secs. 8 is just silly.

The reason why my dad was looking at Audi's is basically because he likes Audi's. And the same reason for Volvo's. Its not really for the luxury. How does a volvo not fit the criteria may i ask?? They have 5 doors, big boot, there quick(ish) and going to be reliable. I said we wont get that A6 if its as slow as is said, what more do you want from me.

 

[Famine]

D) When we first got the car, i timed it at 4.5 secs (on stop watch) to 60! I know thats extremely quick & likely wrong, but there is know way i am 4 seconds out.
E) most books on cars say Supra's do 60 between 5 & 6 secs. 8 is just silly.

Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahaha!

The TURBO MkIII Supra is lucky to pull sub-6.5s 0-62mph times and positively ambles to a 15.6s 1/4 mile. The NA with catalytic converter is put at NINE. 4.5 seconds is just plain fantasy.

MkIV Supras, yes - but the MkIV Supra is a completely different car.

Between 5 & 6 seconds my butt.

bare in mind we are used to an 1990 Supra

1990 = MkIII.

Here's some numbers for MkIIIs:

Horsepower: 232 @ 5,600 rpm (7M-GTE engine)
Torque: 254 ft-lbs @ 3,200 rpm
0-60 mph: 6.7 Seconds Turbo! 6.7s

Personally, I got an 8.5 0-60 in an NA manual Supra, but that was the first time I’ve ever done 0-60 runs! I have been quoted as low as 6.5 for a stock manual turbo.

NA is normally aspirated - it’s the 3.0 fuel injected beast. The engine designation is 7M-GE. It has 200HP, 185 if it's got catalytic converters (which you can remove and it will still pas the MOT!)

The turbo version is the 7M-GTE designated engine, and has 232HP and 345NM of torque

0-60 mph 6.4 seconds
Power 230.0 HP @ 5,600.0 RPM (7M-GTE)
Torque 246.0 Ft-Lbs @ 4,000.0 RPM Turbo! 6.4s

1991 Toyota Supra Turbo 7.1s (0-60mph) 15.6s (1/4) Turbo! 7.1s
1989 Toyota Supra Turbo 6.6s (0-60mph) 15.2s (1/4) Turbo! 6.6s

These are all from owners and owners' club sites. You honestly think a car 20% down on power will come anywhere close to matching the times for the turbo? If so, why did anyone ever bother buying the turbo? The naturally aspirated MkIII Toyota Supra sold in the UK is a dog. Anything under 8 seconds to 60mph is pure delusion if talking about a standard vehicle.

A) i do know about cars,

Yeah. Let's look at some samples of your knowledge, shall we?

what is the best/fastest volvo estate to get??

E) most books on cars say Supra's do 60 between 5 & 6 secs. 8 is just silly. (Referring to a non-turbo, UK-spec, 184hp MkIII!)

next door have an Audi & i dont want to be the same as them

he dosent seem to beleive me that Impreza's are fast. I know they aren't all fast, but the turbos's are arent they?!

A cossie we looked at before is just as expensive as a ferrari to insure simply
because it was deemed a "boy racer" car. they arent that quick.

You think your dog of a Supra is fast, "A cossie" isn't, you aren't sure about Imprezas and you don't want the same car your neighbour has. And, of course, let's not dredge up all of that excreta you were spouting about insurance. Yep. You're an expert alright.


I'll just remind you, while I'm at it, of what the Administrator said when he closed your last thread:

And with that, considering you're not doing much of a job discussing this, have no control over what car your dad buys, and aren't listening to anybody anyway, I'm putting this thread out of our misery.

I don't mean to be hard on you, but you really, really are just wasting our time. We like a good "What car shall I buy?" thread, but it's always nicer when the person actually listens and is the person actually buying the car. Fact is, you've asked us for opinions on cars. Why? Because we - as a Gestalt entity - know more about them than you do. Except when it comes to a certain car when, suddenly, your feelings and a stopwatch are right and every other piece on information on the subject is wrong.


Anyway. TO veer wildly back to the topic at hand...

And the same reason for Volvo's. Its not really for the luxury. How does a volvo not fit the criteria may i ask?? They have 5 doors, big boot, there quick(ish) and going to be reliable.

Your three criteria were nice, quick and reliable. A £3,000 Volvo won't fit any of those, unless you CAN get a T5 (at that price there are TWO for sale in the UK, one being an ex-police car from 1995 - the earliest you said your mother would possibly consider), in which case you'll get "quick", but "nice" and "reliable" are out of the window (though an ex-police car will be more reliable than most, having had a more stringent service schedule, but also more likely to have a cheap interior, dubious "incident" history and, given the age, not been used by the police since 7 owners ago).

Old. Cars. Break. Fact of life.

 

[555]

I so want to say some naughty words at you right now. But i cant be bothered, i new this would happen if i started a thread again. Famine would come on and ruin it.

Show me one place i am not listening to other peoples opinions?? I am not listening to yours because you call me a liar & quite frankly you want to disagree with me so why should i listen to you?? I have listened to others.

All i'm going to say in relation to the (wonderful) Toyota Supra is WHATEVER!

I know why it was closed its because of you, do you think it would of got closed had you not kept arguing with everything i was saying?? of course not, i enjoy reading everyone elses posts, when there about information i asked for. But hey why am i saying all this?? it'll just get re-worded by you to make me sound stupid.

Old cars break fact!? really, no ****. But how come my Clio, with over 110,000 miles on it hasnt gone wrong since we got it?? funny that.

Now if we could stick the Audi's Volvo's & BMW's that would be swell matey.

So you think T5's would be hard at £3k whys that?? There are enough in our local paper.

 

[Tornado]

Let's get the facts out of the way:
1. A Mark IV Supra Turbo is just barely as fast as your Mk. III N/A model is claimed to be. You know, the Mk. III which weighed more than the Mk. IV but had 75 less BHP than the Mk. IV N/A.
2. There is no way in hell your going to find a car under $4,000 (roughly equal to £3,000) that can do 0-60 in 4.5 seconds unless they sell rusted out Camaro Z/28's in Britain.

Old cars break fact!? really, no ****. But how come my Clio, with over 110,000 miles on it hasnt gone wrong since we got it?? funny that.

3. Many people go through cars within a year. Just because your Clio went for 110,000 miles, doesn't mean everyone will. Hell, my dad's Neon has 124,000k on it's clock, and he hasn't had anything fixed on it either except the speakers. Doesn't mean every Neon in the world is liek that. If you can find a Volvo 850 T5 for £3,000, chances are it'll last until it gets to your driveway.

So you think T5's would be hard at £3k whys that?? There are enough in our local paper.

4. If your buying cars from a newpaper, but want a "nice" and "reliable" car, you really don't know anything about cars.
All this being said, I still somewhat care. You probably don't nedd an 850 anyways. A 740 should be fine.

 

[Famine]

All i'm going to say in relation to the (wonderful) Toyota Supra is WHATEVER!

Translation: Oh dear. I have no facts whatsoever to back up my clearly fallacious position that the performance figures I've claimed for a (claimed) standard MkIII Supra are true, so instead I'm going to attempt to deflect the numbers with a carefully thought out chav-ism.

I am not listening to yours because you call me a liar & quite frankly you want to disagree with me so why should i listen to you??

I have not called you a liar. I have pointed out why several of your assertions have little to no basis in reality and asked you to back them up with solid facts so that you don't appear to be a liar. You have rejected all of my efforts to assist you on this front.

Why should you listen to me? Because my knowledge on this subject exceeds yours.

I know why it was closed its because of you

Go back and read what the administrator said. Did they say "I'm locking this because of Famine"? Or did they say they were locking it because "you're not doing much of a job discussing this, have no control over what car your dad buys, and aren't listening to anybody anyway".

So why was it locked? Was it because of me, or because of you?

But hey why am i saying all this?? it'll just get re-worded by you to make me sound stupid.

Point out to me one instance where I have not quoted you verbatim. Everything I quote from you was originally written BY you. The only way I can make you sound stupid, in that case, is if you sound stupid to start with.

Old cars break fact!? really, no ****. But how come my Clio, with over 110,000 miles on it hasnt gone wrong since we got it?? funny that.

And how come my sister-in-law's Clio went wrong inside the first two days from new?

Does your revelation deny my statement? No.

So you think T5's would be hard at £3k whys that?? There are enough in our local paper.

Here's a search for the UK on Autotrader for V70 T5s under £3,000 (and no, that's not my postcode, though I did live in Norwich for a time).

Expansive, isn't it? One car - an ex-cop '98 vehicle with 180,000 miles on it and the cheapest interior on Earth (cops don't need leather) and no aircon. Bear in mind that police only use cars up to 3 years old - which means that this car has been in private hands for at least 4 years and, as the Datacheck turns out, actually the last 5. Assume a good 40,000 miles a year in cop hands, where it's being serviced better than on-schedule, and that's 100,000 miles of private ownership you cannot account for.


That said, if I was after a performance/luxury bargain, I wouldn't bother with AutoTrader or the local paper. I'd go down to the local car auctions. Try Letchworth (Jubilee Trading Estate) or Bedford (Mile Road). I don't think Biggleswade is big enough to host any.

 

[Duke]

Now if we could stick the Audi's Volvo's & BMW's that would be swell matey.

If you'll recall, [color=indigo[/color] gave you a number of Audi listings in your first thread. But I doubt you'll recall that, even though I do. Go look them up.

So you think T5's would be hard at £3k whys that?? There are enough in our local paper.

Then go buy one of them and shut UP already. Why are you dragging this on and on and on when you so clearly have no idea about what you're talking?

 

[555]

"Whatever" translates as i cant be bothered to keep talking about the Supra (which i didnt want to anyway) actually.

Dont tell me to shut up, im not the one thats being agrevating. When we find a car we want we will know doubt get it.

When i say in the paper, i refer to dealers adverts, not private ads.

So if you think a Turbo volvo wouldnt be a good idea for 3grand, what would people sudgest is a good buy?? My dads basic criteria is 4/5 doors & speed, lots & lots of speed. My mums criteria is 4/5 doors & new, you see the pickle i am in with this. Thats why i sudgested a Audi or BMW but aparently i am wrong. As i am not an absolute car expert (& aparently no nothing) share your expert knowledge & tell me what you think we should purchase. PRETTY PLEASE!

 

[Famine]

My dads basic criteria is 4/5 doors & speed, lots & lots of speed.

Attainable, at the sacrifice of reliability.

My mums criteria is 4/5 doors & new

Unattainable, though I recall you earlier saying 1995 at the earliest, which makes it more attainable.


Suggestions:
Alfa Romeo 156 - 1999 V6 cars available for your £3,000. Very nice inside, very fast (and this is where the issue of the Supra comes in - its figures exceed your Supra's figures. You say they do not), reasonably new, 4 doors. Downside - patchy reliability of electronics, crap dealership network. So if you take it to a non-Alfa dealer, you won't have a problem with the second one. The top result in this search is near Southend, so not a million miles away from you.

Nissan Skyline GTS 4 door - 7 results on this search, though only three are actually 4 doors... MASSES of speed, 4 doors, but not very new and early 1990s Japanese interior. Reliability is likely to be better than most in the sector, but all 4 doors are imports so the insurance cost is increased.

Jaguar XJ - very pleasant inside, 4 door, 1996 cars available at this price, "I drive a Jaguar" phrase as standard. Downsides - Not particularly quick (in this price range) though the 3.2 Sport isn't bad, appalling service and parts costs (my dad's cost £550 for a wing mirror).

~2001 MG ZS180/ZT190 - Very up-to-date inside, 4 door, as quick as the Supra, but very out-of-date underneath, no chance of warranty repairs and mocking laughs from passers-by. That said, with the collapse of MGRover, they are becoming bargains and, if, as you said, you don't care about resale costs, you needn't worry about them being bargains when you come to sell them too.

Saab 9-3 - 2.0t is quick. VERY quick. 4-door, very nice inside, 1999-2000 model available at your price range. BUT it's a Vectra underneath and FWD. Not Earth-shatteringly bad news, really.

I couldn't find any currently, but you might be able to get a V5/V6 VW Bora in your price range or the ultra-rare Maserati Quattroporte (and "I drive a Maserati" has the same cachet as "I drive a Jaguar").

 

[555]

Thanks for a nice reply (for once), but unfortunately. I dont think any of them cars are of use. I like them all dont get me wrong, but my mum for some reason "dosent like" Saabs or Jags (which is a real shame cause they got a nice XJ for sale at our local dealer).
Alfa, i know what you have said, but you hear all sorts of horror stories about Alfa's about them never working properly etc.
Skyline, now of course i would love a Skyline, but for 3 grand?? surely thats asking for trouble, plus 4 door one's are so rare (i dont think i've ever seen one), wouldnt insurance be ridiculous??
The MG does sound like a good idea (i always liked 'em), but i didnt think they were that quick
Bora's a no no. We know 2 people with Bora's so would look pretty sad if we got one too.

By the way i didnt mean new as in Brand new, i ment as new as possible. i think '95 is about as old as she wanted to go.

What about all these R/S/T reg Volvo "S" i keep seeing are they any good??

 

[Famine]

Volvos are competant enough, but to get the speed your father wants you need to go "T", and to get a "T" on a £3,000 budget you'll need to sacrifice a lot - in my opinion TOO much. You'll certainly be sacrificing reliability.


It has to be said that the Alfa 156 IS the choice car in this pile. The only thing you MUST check is that it has a full service history - preferably a full Alfa one - and has had no serious faults. The only really ropey things on Alfas tend to be the electronics, which have a very continental way of working (4 days a week, on the wrong job and they take an hour off to sleep at lunchtime). The very WORST thing about Alfas are the dealerships. Take it to be serviced somewhere else and you're in luck.


Failing that, car auctions, where you can get anything you want at any price.

 

[T5-R]

Theres no reason why you shouldn't be able to get a nice 1995 850 T5 estate with 100,000 miles on the clock (less if your lucky, more likely with autos) and lots of goodies for £3000, which aslong as its been serviced correctly and not abused should be good for atleast another 100k (Although probably need a new turbo in that time). At the 3 grand price range you'd be alot better off going for private sales are these are usually a grand cheaper.


GLEs and CDs are the top of the range models with the most equipment typically. I think both have leather as standard, the GLTs have it as an optional extra.

 

[Famine]

If you want 850s, there's some T5s about, but 100,000 miles is optimistic.

There IS one in AutoTrader with 87,500 miles, described as having had a "titled gentleman" owner followed by a "careful lady" owner, for £2,195... But it's so out of place there that my natural tendency is to lean toward suspicion...

 

[T5-R]

Yeah £2200 is a bit cheap for a 850 T5 estate (if thats what it is) with 87.5k on the clock. Assuming the mileage is genuine of course, it seems theres a lot of cars out there that old blokes have had take their sweet time replacing a broken speedo (or purposefully disabling it).

More likely its a bit rough though with sagging headlining aplenty!

After over 10 months or so I gave up looking for a Volvo meeting my criteria. Too many high milers, towbars, autos, estates... or in most cases all 4 Had little choice but to get another car for work.

Thankfully my 460 does appear to have a genuine low mileage (44k) with service history and it looks it/feels it.