Volvo is joining the twincharged pioneers.

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Leonidae@MFT

Leonidae@MFT

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Volvo's Supercharged Turbocharged Engine Makes You Forget About The T6

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It's sometimes hard to understand why automakers announce engines before it's put into whatever new model it's intended for. Since many new engines are put into facelifted versions of older models, it's kind of like saying, "Don't buy this car yet, because it's about to get more powerful and more fuel efficient."

It used to be that you could buy a Chevy Impala and do you know what it said on the trunk? Nothing. Nowadays end-of-car real estate is jam packed. Read…

As a fan of current Volvos, with the fat inline turbo six and the good ol' warbling T5, I'm sad the company has chosen an all-four-cylinder path moving forward all in the name of weight-savings and fuel economy. My eyes rolled even more this week when they announced the new range of four-cylinder engines would be called the Drive-E range. Stupid, stupid made-up name. It also sounds like an adjective, not a noun.

But after reading further, the two drivey engines initially destined for the US are a turbocharged 2.0-liter four with 240 horsepower (called the T5, but short one cylinder) and a much more interesting version of the same engine, but it takes a page from Volkswagen's Twincharger with an added supercharger to make it the T6 and giving it 302 horsepower.

First of all, holy hell that's a lot of power coming from a 2.0. It may not be a sweet six like the current 3.0-liter T6, but it's going to have a supercharger whine along with the turbo boost. Second, and more responsibly, it's getting stop-start and an 8-speed auto (still no manual) so it stands to be far more efficient than the six, anyway. This could be a win-win.

Volvo did not announce, however, which new cars the drivey engines would be going into. It's a safe bet the first one will be this new XC90 we've been hearing not a whole lot about, which is supposedly due at the end of 2014. For now, the five-cylinder T5 and its warble live, and so does the big T6, and normally I'd advise any five-pot fans to go out and get one instead of this new-generation four. After reading about this super-turbo engine, though, do you really want a current Volvo?
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302bhp 4-banger? Good. Now, make a nice AWD C30 hatch or RWD P1800-esque RWD coupe around that motor.
 
I always wondered if it was possible to supercharge a turbocharged engine. Now I know.

Damn, Volvo. Damn.
 
CallmeDan
I always wondered if it was possible to supercharge a turbocharged engine. Now I know.

Damn, Volvo. Damn.
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The tech has been around for a while. In Mid-80's, a relatively famous car known as Lancia Delta S4 and the road going Stradale used same method. Nissan also used it in Micra Super Turbo.
 
Leonidae@MFT
The tech has been around for a while. In Mid-80's, a relatively famous car known as Lancia Delta S4 and the road going Stradale used same method. Nissan also used it in Micra Super Turbo.
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VW also did it in the Mk 5 Golf GT.
 
First the Polestar S60 Prototype and now this...Volvo please bring all your cool stuff forward and along with the V8 Supercars run, I'll love them even more.
 
It's a shame they're dropping their 6 and (especially) 5 cylinders, but I guess the twincharge thing is something to try to make up for it.
 
For those of you wondering, some specs on the V60 were released.

T5 (thats the turbo 4) Only 240hp and 266ft lb with 280 of overboost. Fuel economy is 38hwy, 28city. Hit's 60 in 6 flat.

T6 (the twincharged 4) is 302hp, 295, gets 36/26 and 60 in 5.6.
 
The only thing I can think of that I wouldn't care for is having to wind the thing up to 10 grand where it makes power. That's why I like bigger engines for the most part, the torque is there immediately to get you going and makes daily driving a bit nicer. Otherwise this is pretty nice.
 
Slashfan
The only thing I can think of that I wouldn't care for is having to wind the thing up to 10 grand where it makes power.
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Whut?

Hint as to how these engines work: "The torque is there immediately to get you going". Supercharger for forced induction from the word go, turbocharger for a big boost in the mid-range to top end.
 
RDF97
I want that engine but I do not want it in a Volvo!
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I mean...the V60 isn't as nice to drive as an ATS or 3 series, but compared to the C-Class, A4, whatever it's just as good or better. It's also loads more comfortable than the first 2.
 
Slashfan
The only thing I can think of that I wouldn't care for is having to wind the thing up to 10 grand where it makes power. That's why I like bigger engines for the most part, the torque is there immediately to get you going and makes daily driving a bit nicer.
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"The only thing I can think of that I wouldn't care for in a big OHV engine is having to shift gears at 1.25 grand where it hits redline. That's why I like smaller engines for the most part, they can actually rev more than 500RPM above idle to get you going and it makes daily driving a bit nicer."

That's the mirror image of the ridiculousness of what you said. Don't say things W&N would say. 👍
 
As far as I know.

Turbo with supercharger = no turbo lag.

Without supercharger and only a turbo = turbo lag.
 
R1600Turbo
Maybe. With turbo technology these days, lag is becoming a thing of the past.
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This.

Long-term reliability aside* the modern turbocharged petrol engines are pretty damn good. Virtually lag-free, strong all the way through the rev range, smooth, responsive**, and as long as you don't go too mental with the throttle, some can even be reasonably economical.

I really do like big engines more than a few people on GTP would like to believe but this "go big or go home" attitude from people who've only driven about three cars in their entire life is getting a bit tiresome.



* And that's purely hypothetical, since plenty of old 80s turbocharged engines are still going strong, and modern units are typically better built and less highly stressed

** Still don't have the throttle response of NA engines, but some are getting pretty close
 
kikie
As far as I know.

Turbo with supercharger = no turbo lag.

Without supercharger and only a turbo = turbo lag.
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Also with things like electric turbos and systems to diminish lag to zero or just twin turbo systems as well which make lag go away, there are plenty of options out there. Turbo size also plays a big role and what most family cars run for size compared to performance sedans or performance cars, lag isn't existent.
 
homeforsummer
Whut?

Hint as to how these engines work: "The torque is there immediately to get you going". Supercharger for forced induction from the word go, turbocharger for a big boost in the mid-range to top end.
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So I've heard but I have limited experience with these types of engines so I couldn't really say for sure.
Wolfe
"The only thing I can think of that I wouldn't care for in a big OHV engine is having to shift gears at 1.25 grand where it hits redline. That's why I like smaller engines for the most part, they can actually rev more than 500RPM above idle to get you going and it makes daily driving a bit nicer."

That's the mirror image of the ridiculousness of what you said. Don't say things W&N would say. 👍
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Except you don't have to shift at 1.25 grand because it hits redline :sly:

Fair point tho.
 
I don't know about you guys, but after DDing a car with a decent responsive NA engine and a stick shift, I can feel significant turbo lag is all 'modern' turbocharged engines in sporty cars with stick-shift or 'performance' automatics (no idea how small turbos feel in low-HP cars). I'm talking Hyundais,BMWs, MB, Ford.
It's better than it used to be, but still significant.

If one compares those to NA automatics, some of the difference may be obscured by AT algorithms in N/A cars.
 
Guess we're gonna be really spoiled when electric motors become the norm.
 
dsgerbc
*Lag*
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I think what you're mostly feeling is an in-built softness from the by-wire throttles used these days. Depending on the car, that can disappear completely - the current generation of turbocharged hot hatches on sale here in Europe react pretty instantly.

Does depend what you're comparing it to, also. For this Volvo engine, I can't see it feeling any less responsive than the large-capacity engines it's designed to replace.
 
Meh, I have no real preference for the type of juice that powers my car.
homeforsummer
I think what you're mostly feeling is an in-built softness from the by-wire throttles used these days. Depending on the car, that can disappear completely - the current generation of turbocharged hot hatches on sale here in Europe react pretty instantly.

Does depend what you're comparing it to, also. For this Volvo engine, I can't see it feeling any less responsive than the large-capacity engines it's designed to replace.
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Don't think so. I test-drive cars with prior research and hit all the right buttons to put those into performance-oriented settings. Usually that means that throttle map becomes quite aggressive and give 100% throttle comand with gas pedals at 30-40% down. But it really requires driving a decent NA car beforehand. If I arrive after driving an STI, it all seems good.

And to remind what this is all about - I think twincharged engine will have less lag than current turbocharged engines with decently-sized turbos (read 250HP+ output).
 
dsgerbc
Don't think so. I test-drive cars with prior research and hit all the right buttons to put those into performance-oriented settings. Usually that means that throttle map becomes quite aggressive and give 100% throttle comand with gas pedals at 30-40% down. But it really requires driving a decent NA car beforehand. If I arrive after driving an STI, it all seems good.
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Yeah, to be honest the type of car does have a lot to do with it too.

NA cars still have the edge for response, but the latest turbos are very good. To be fair, they're probably made to look better by some of the less-responsive NAs about these days too.
 
Seems to me like response on the engine is more about an after thought for daily drivers that want to cut you off at the stop light.
Enthusiast will be able to keep a car is the correct RPM range for the driving needed. 👍

Turbos are marvels of engineering.

Combining the super and turbo chargers on a single engine sounds great to me, waiting for the result. :)
 
Here's a question I'm currently asking myself;
what are the pros and cons of a twincharger setup compared with a sequential turbo setup?
 
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We finally got the V60 at my dealership. Ours is a T5 front wheel drive. IE, it's the turbo 4, base model motor. I'm sold. Obviously, I didn't push it, but even under light driving it pulls and accelerates well. Doesn't sound like much, but that's not the point. I'm sure you could make it sound just fine.

The 8-speed shifts surprisingly quick with the paddles but 8 speeds is too much. It has to downshift about 30 times to make a pass. That is alleviated by shifting it yourself, which is, rewarding, slightly. It's definitely better than any domestic manual shift autos, and I would say better than any BMW I've driven. (I haven't driven any F cars.) It's really not far behind a dual clutch.

The other negative I have with the car is the stop/start. Completely strange and unnerving. Luckily it is easily turned off.

The steering is definitely family friendly. It's really boosted and has an artificial progression to it, which is unfortunately par the course for cars these days. But the good is that it is accurate and quick. I would say more accurate than any Volvo before it. (I should mention this car has the Sport Package.) My 04 R car was not on the same level, though it had a more natural feel. Compared to a C30 R, I would take the V60.

This is our demo car, so after it gets a few more miles I'll push it to see if it still stacks up. I'll also get to take it home for a few nights. I don't really commute but I'll make sure to get some miles on it.
 

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