VOTE For Best American Car

  • Thread starter Thread starter YSSMAN
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VOTE FOR BEST AMERICAN CAR!

  • AM General/GM Humvee/Hummer H1

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Cadillac CTS (Sigma)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Cadillac DTS (K-Body)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Cadillac STS (Sigma)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Chevrolet Corvair

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Chevrolet Impala

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Chevrolet Malibu

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Chrysler 300C (LX-chassis)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Chrysler PT Cruiser

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Duesenberg Model J

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Ford Model B aka '32 "Deuce Coupe"

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Plymouth Roadrunner/Superbird

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Shelby Cobra

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • SSC Aero

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    59
  • Poll closed .
Please don't get me wrong - i love the Mustang, much, much more so than the Vette, i'd kill for a simple 64/65 'notchback' Mustang 289 - i wouldn't touch any Vette with a barge pole if i was spending my own 'hard earned'. But the Vette has been America's only real sportscar for over half a century and has done exactly what it says on the tin throughout. The Mustang wasn't even really a muscle car - it was the original pony car, which is different and mostly forgotten in this day and age.

I certainly don't think that the Mustang has a greater presence outside the USA than the Vette. I don't believe that the Mustang has ever been officially sold outside the US?

The Mustang has been sold outside the US. You'd be surprised at the Mustang clubs that have appeared in all corners of the globe. Hell, I was even in one in Venezuela. I pretty much doubt the 'vette has been sold in as many countries as the Mustang. I've seen the 'vette in UK and maybe a couple in Spain (this last one, not an official import), whereas I've seen much more Mustangs in many more countries.

You're claiming the Mustang wasn't originally a muscle car or a sports car... but the name of the thread is the best american car, not the best american sports/muscle/pony car. True, the 'vette is an american icon, and maybe it's the best representative for sports cars in the US, but I don't think it's the best as an overall car... the Mustang on the other hand, did offer that, with 2+2 variations and even some attempt at bein a family car (fox chassis).

And lastly, at least the Mustang II is better than the '83 Corvette :P


Edit: I Googled "Mustang Club" and came out with many:
Valencia, Venezuela
Spain
Mexico
Finland
Holland
Sweden
Australia

and that's just the first page of results

incidentally, I looked up Corvette Club as well and came up with less than half the results... most of the results are for Corvette Clubs within the US.
 
It was officially sold in Europe with a different name, for the same reason the Viper isn't the Viper over here. I personally don't think the Corvette has half the Mustangs reputation outside of the US, not that many people really know anything about a Corvette, but everyone from my dad to the lad's at work know what a Mustang is.

I do understand that your not arguing against the Mustang because you don't like it, I argued against the Veyron in the French thread and I like the Veyron a lot, I just couldn't call it the best French car ever, the same goes for TVR's, I couldn't vote for them in the UK thread.
 
And lastly, at least the Mustang II is better than the '83 Corvette :P

How is this...:
78mustang.jpg

...better than this:
Only_1983.jpg


Sorry but that's just not true.
 
You are right, the mustang 2 was better than the 83 Vette because there was no 83 vette, it went from 82 to 84.
It looks like that is a GM museam model, not production.
Yay GM :dunce:

And saying that the Mustang is only as good as the worst mustang is just plain silly, it is as good as the collective history of the line.
 
Hmm......

Model T.


The first cheap mass produced car. It formed the bulk of american traffic for the three decades after its introduction. Although production ended in 1927, many were still around as late as the 1940s. The first american sedan, it was also the first SUV. Many drivers took them to places that the T wasn't even supposed to go. Also, a T was turned into the first snowmobile. Everyone is touting the Corvette because of its racing heritage. The first T and the First corvette weren't fast by their time's standard. And, while a corvette in 1965 was considered fast, a 1925 T was considered pokey when it was new. But, the T never really changed. Sure, it got another carb, and some new bodystyles, but it was largely the same. And while it was a slow car, it had lots of sporting potential.
What did louis Chevrolet do when he left his company in 1916?(or was it 1912?) He went and hot rodded Model Ts and their engines. An average joe could get a boat tail body and place it on his stock T chassis. The same run of the mill racer could get a Chevrolet OHV head for his 4 pot.
Louis built his brother Gaston a car powered by a Ford block that won the indy 500. Hot rodding owes its entire existence to the T. All the first rods were Ts or T based. Why? cars were out before the T, why not rod them? But, if a 1912 mercedes cost more than the average worker's salary, then why would someone want to hack the fenders off to make the car go fast? Hot rodding started because people wanted to go fast but couldn't afford the faster cars. putting another carb or adding a new head and taking the fenders off was a way for the average joe to get a piece of the excitement that only the rich or well connected could get at that time. racing hopped up model Ts at small tracks around the country brought racing to people who couldn't get out to new york or Indianapolis to see what it was all about.
Plus, they were, and are, really durable. many are running around today. Sure, there might have been a sandblast, patch, and repaint, but some of the Ts one can see puttering about car shows and local streets on weekends are almost 100 years old. A patch and paintjob can't begin to fix some of the newer cars. Many hotrods are using many T components. the fact that many T bodies can sit in a field for 50 years without rusting together is amazing. Sure, they require lots and lots of bodywork, but the 1985 Toyota Celica down the street that is 70 years younger is just as rusted.

It's the spiritual grandfather of the Beetle and Corolla: purely utilitarian and very reliable. But, without many drastic modifications, they could all be made to go very fast. Plus, they are all extremely simple to work on. The average person could perform routine maintenance on his or her T without much assistance.

From an importance standpoint, the T wins by a landslide. But, the Corvette was intended as a sportscar. In that category, it excels. But, the T was just intended to replace the horse and wagon. It excelled in that, but also transformed the nation and did many things it was never even intended to do. What do you think Henry would have thought when he found out that cars using T frames and bodies were doing 180+ at Bonneville?
 
No the T was meant to replace the model S, which preceded the T

Ford actually was producing luxury cars for quite a while before the T.
 
No the T was meant to replace the model S, which preceded the T

Ford actually was producing luxury cars for quite a while before the T.

Luxury? Did you read the post?

But, the S was just a spiffier Model N.

In 1913 The ford executives decided to utilise the assembly line.

Sure.. The T was technically a replacement model for the N.

But you're missing the point.

The T is huge. You can't just call the most important car of the 20th century just a replacement.. That's a 1906 Model N. the T was a whole car. it formed the basic shape of cars to come. the headlights were up front instead of on the cab as in the N. The T had four seats, the N was mainly a two seater. THen the R or S offered a 3rd seat.


1908 T:

The T is a whole car. THe T looks more like the cars that followed it than the N. headlights at the front, motor at the front, a long passenger compartment, and then taillight(s). Trunks as we know them weren't really prevalent until the late 30s. In the first cars, luggage was an after thought.
 
Well I'm happy to see the right votes going to the right car here. I think it is fairly well-known that I'm not the biggest Ford fan, but I love the Mustang as much as any other guy. Granted, I'd almost always take a Camaro over the 'Stang, but the value of what that car did for the American automotive industry can't be underestimated either.

It can be argued that without the Mustang we certainly would not have had our Musclecar years from 1964-1973, and that indeed would have been a HUGE piece of American history gone missing. Granted there are many combinations of cars that lead to that era, but I'd say the Mustang was indeed the catalyst for what had happened. The crazy customization of the car added to the "fun" of models like the GT Fastback made it an instand hit in September of 1964, and quite frankly, America really hasn't turned it's back on the car since.

...That said, the Mustang isn't a Corvette topper. While the Mustang did a lot to push a new type of car forward in America, it was indeed a refreshed version of the Falcon, not a completely origional model. As compared to the Corvette, the Mustang didn't push technology forward either... That was left to the GT40, Shelby lineup, and the other NASCAR-related models at Ford. Earl and Duntov had the vision to make the Corvette the testbed for new technology for GM, and to this day, it continues to do so.

...Quite frankly, it has always been a battle between the Corvette and Mustang as to what is the dominant product from an American automaker. Both cars carved out their own segment and loyal following, as no one can argue against the overall popularity of these cars. Even as children most Americans are taught to love these cars, and thats what has continued to make them popular here in the US.

But, my position remains firm: The Corvette is by far America's best.
 
Incidentally, the Mustang prototype (1962) was designed to compete with the Corvette.
 
And saying that the Mustang is only as good as the worst mustang is just plain silly, it is as good as the collective history of the line.

And that collective history includes plenty of really dud models as far as the Mustang is concerned. The Vette line up doesn't fall as far away from best to worse as the stang does.

Diego440
The Mustang has been sold outside the US. You'd be surprised at the Mustang clubs that have appeared in all corners of the globe. Hell, I was even in one in Venezuela. I pretty much doubt the 'vette has been sold in as many countries as the Mustang. I've seen the 'vette in UK and maybe a couple in Spain (this last one, not an official import), whereas I've seen much more Mustangs in many more countries.

You're claiming the Mustang wasn't originally a muscle car or a sports car... but the name of the thread is the best american car, not the best american sports/muscle/pony car. True, the 'vette is an american icon, and maybe it's the best representative for sports cars in the US, but I don't think it's the best as an overall car... the Mustang on the other hand, did offer that, with 2+2 variations and even some attempt at bein a family car (fox chassis).

Just because there's a few owners clubs in certain countries outside the US doesn't mean the car was officialy sold there, it just means people have imported them. I've got a book on the Mustang back home and can't find any reference for it been sold, under any name, in Europe at least.

I've never said this was a 'best american muscle car' vote, i just said that the Mustang isn't a muscle car (it's a pony car) and neither is the Vette. So it's certainly not the first muscle car - that was the '64 Pontiac GTO.
 
The Mustang was officially sold in Europe as the Ford T5, the Mustang name was already taken.
 
The Mustang was officially sold in Europe as the Ford T5, the Mustang name was already taken.

I stand corrected, they were sold in Germany and Switzerland (as T5's like you said) but they sold only a few thousand in the 9 years that they did.

You learn something new every day!
 
Right. I did my thesis on the history of the Mustang, so I can tell you it was in fact, sold in many countries around the world. Venezuela assembled them for most of South America in the early 80s, although they were sold there since 1966.

l4s
The Mustang was officially sold in Europe as the Ford T5, the Mustang name was already taken.

Seriously? Wow... what car had the Mustang already? I've seen a few 'stangs around here, mostly new ones. Although some guy who lives closeby has a '81, which is very much alike one I had (I've had a '69 and a '97 too). I thought the T5 was the name of the first Mustangs (1964-1971) that were sold in Europe (Ford Mustang T5 or something like that). But I also think that they were sold via dealers in the following years.
 
Just because there's a few owners clubs in certain countries outside the US doesn't mean the car was officialy sold there, it just means people have imported them.


Yes, we have pently of Mustangs in Australia (lots of classic ones), they are quite easy to find if someone wants one, but the only Mustangs officially sold here were the pevious model versions (2000-2003 roughly).


On that note we have a damn lot of Corvettes too, with only C5 briefly sold here officially I think.
 
I have seen stories on a few of the car shows here in the US in which they go to classic American car shows in the UK and Australia, both of which are full of Mustangs, Camaros, Corvettes, etc.
 
I have seen stories on a few of the car shows here in the US in which they go to classic American car shows in the UK and Australia, both of which are full of Mustangs, Camaros, Corvettes, etc.

There is a strong following for US cars here in the UK, so we have plenty of mustangs, vettes, camaros, 57 chevys, chargers, falcons, thunderbirds, firebirds etc, etc. But with the exception of the more recent vettes and camaros, which have been sold spasmodically through Vauxhall dealers, they've all been imported, not sold officially.
 
Hmmm interesting.

BTW: How well did that previous-generation of Camaro go over? I can remember a few years back after discovering that Chevrolet had links to it's other national dealer networks that they were sold in the UK (this must have been about 2000 or 2001), and I was quite surprised. However I notied that they didn't sell the SS there, or atleast it wasn't listed, or they may have listed it as the Z/28 with the optional SS package... I can't remember.

Added to that, it does make me wonder if GM will be smart enough, or really DCX for that matter, to import a few Camaros and Challengers per year to the UK or mainland Europe. I'm sure they could pass a few off, but you folks would have to deal with LHD and our "crude" American engines, lol.
 
BTW: How well did that previous-generation of Camaro go over? I can remember a few years back after discovering that Chevrolet had links to it's other national dealer networks that they were sold in the UK (this must have been about 2000 or 2001), and I was quite surprised. However I notied that they didn't sell the SS there, or atleast it wasn't listed, or they may have listed it as the Z/28 with the optional SS package... I can't remember.

To be honest, not very well. The biggest hinderence for 'unlocalised' US cars in the UK is the LHD issue. It was certainly a lot of performance for the money, and it had a lot of advertising thrown at it by GM/Vauxhall. Period reviews for it sited the usual poor quality interior/handling as serious down sides. I guess potential buyers (of sports coupes) prefered something better tuned to european roads and tastes. They were also sold, alongside C5 Vettes, through Vauxhall dealerships - not usually your first port of call for performance cars. They also, rightly or wrongly, have a bit of a 'red neck' image. But i guess they do in the US too.

The Camaro was sold in a pretty high state of specification, i don't recall whether it was badged as a Z/28 or an SS, all i can remember was that it had the 5.7 in it with 300+bhp.
 
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