VW engine news, Golf GTI etc.

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Moot

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For the next gen Golf the GTI will get a power boost to 220bhp with revisions of the existing 2.0 GTI engine. Using valve tech developed by Audi.
From 2014 the engine will get further power increases to take it to the 260bhp territory of the Golf R type engine which will cease production due to emissions.
So somehow VAG will make this current engine high power, which many people know is not possible at the moment.

Other engine news is confirmation that the 1.4TSI will lose it's supercharger and maintain a turbocharger to provide 150bhp. That engine didn't go to plan then.

No updates yet on the 1.6 turbo engines.
 
Moot
Other engine news is confirmation that the 1.4TSI will lose it's supercharger and maintain a turbocharger to provide 150bhp. That engine didn't go to plan then..
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I'd guess that with advances in turbo technology, a supercharger is just unnecessary weight and complexity now.
 
Moot
180bhp to 150bhp is not an advancement to achieve equality to previous performance.
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The 1.4 TSi was available across the VAG range with differing power outputs of between 121bhp and 178bhp. It's fairly obvious to say that the 150bhp figure you posted, is unlikely to be the highest output the new engine is ever to be available in.
 
The worrying thing about power increases is that they likely mean weight increases to match. Why make the GTI more powerful unless it's more heavy so needs the increase?
Is there any example of a mainstream model getting both power and lighter?
Not a good sign I realise now, I think if the Golf was getting lighter or staying the same the GTI would get a 1.6 200-210ps engine instead of a 2.0 210ps.
But now a standard GTI with 220bhp...not even a special edition. It's not going to be lighter surely...
 
TheCracker
Don't think it's a given that it will be heavier. The current trend is to go lighter with a smaller more efficient engine. This older Car article would seem to prop me up.
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That's what I thought too, but they are not using a smaller more efficient engine for the GTI. It might be a little more efficient due to revisions but it's the same block and capacity.
That article is not very well written with plenty of mistakes, their predictios might be a bit lax too.
 
Moot
The worrying thing about power increases is that they likely mean weight increases to match. Why make the GTI more powerful unless it's more heavy so needs the increase?
Is there any example of a mainstream model getting both power and lighter?
Not a good sign I realise now, I think if the Golf was getting lighter or staying the same the GTI would get a 1.6 200-210ps engine instead of a 2.0 210ps.
But now a standard GTI with 220bhp...not even a special edition. It's not going to be lighter surely...
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You know, they could be increasing the power because they want more power. There doesn't need to be an ulterior motive for it.
 
Moot
So somehow VAG will make this current engine high power, which many people know is not possible at the moment.
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It's not possible to make the current 2.0FSI a "high power engine"?
 
Toronado
You know, they could be increasing the power because they want more power. There doesn't need to be an ulterior motive for it.
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Exactly, compared to the rest of the hot hatch pack, the GTI is starting to feel luke-warm. Of course the Golf R is the top of the line Golf at this moment, but it's simply no match for the cream of the crop of the competition, which sell for a lot less too. Pretty soon Ford and Opel will release their upgraded Focus and Astra models as well. If they up the power on the Golf, it will also be the perfect alternative for people who think the Scirocco R is a bit too extreme or not practical enough.
 
Also, including a source for once would be nice. You seem to never include one.
 
eSZee
It's not possible to make the current 2.0FSI a "high power engine"?
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Why would they? It's an old ish, naturally aspirated engine that wouldn't sell. Too much CO2, not enough MPG and power can be had for less displacement. It's all about downsizing these days, why use a 2.0 if a 1.4 or 1.6T can do the job better? The 1.6 TSI(?) will be good for 300BHP in the WRC Polo, so realistically on a road car it could be pushing 220-240bhp.

I'm more interested in the next GTD, 200bhp 2.0 diesel if I remember correctly. That would be a good combination.
 
eSZee
The way moot posted it, to me it sounded like it's not possible to make the 2.0 high powered but VAG will somehow manage.
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Oh right, you were still talking about the 2.0 TFSI. I though you meant the old naturally aspirated engine.

By the way, the GTI and R is the same engine (2.0TFSI), so it already is high power (270 bhp).
 
NLxAROSA
Exactly, compared to the rest of the hot hatch pack, the GTI is starting to feel luke-warm. Of course the Golf R is the top of the line Golf at this moment, but it's simply no match for the cream of the crop of the competition, which sell for a lot less too. Pretty soon Ford and Opel will release their upgraded Focus and Astra models as well. If they up the power on the Golf, it will also be the perfect alternative for people who think the Scirocco R is a bit too extreme or not practical enough.
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VW have been very well priced compared to Ford and Vauxhall/Opel. In the UK anyway.
I hope the new GTI is lighter than the current one. It would make quite a step up in performance, but I don't think they need to do that when they already have the R...
If I was in charge, I would make it lighter still and have the GTI with a 210bhp 1.6 Turbo. It would have class leading emissions and dynamics. And it would be faster than the current GTI with better power to weight. So it even fulfils that criteria you mention that is in demand.
 
Mike0105
Oh right, you were still talking about the 2.0 TFSI. I though you meant the old naturally aspirated engine.

By the way, the GTI and R is the same engine (2.0TFSI), so it already is high power (270 bhp).
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That's where my confusion is coming from. The 2.0 is an easily modable car.
 
Mike0105
By the way, the GTI and R is the same engine (2.0TFSI), so it already is high power (270 bhp).
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eSZee
That's where my confusion is coming from. The 2.0 is an easily modable car.
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No

They are completely different engines, the R engine is from the previous generation range of VAG models. VAG have had to work hard just to get the engine upto 210ps from 200ps, and now soon to 220ps with special valve technology, then after that they plan to revise it to get the high power. Its a longterm work in progress. The old engine is far easier to get the power from, but it's not so good in emissions. By 2014 they will have worked out how to effectively get high power from the current type 2.0 engine.
 
But you said the current GTI 2.0L is not able to make high power and everyone knows it. I'm wondering where you got that from? Did I misunderstand?
In the US, we only have to worry about passing OBD tests so gasses and all that are irrelevant. That's why we have 270hp+ 330tq+ GTIs running around from nothing but an ECU flash over the poor factory tune.
 
The current VAG 2.0 turbo engine is the EA888, which has a maximum factory spec of about 210 to 220bhp. This model engine is found in the GTI.
The R has the EA113 engine which is the old engine which goes upto around 280bhp factory spec.

Aftermarket engine tuners can remap the current GTI 210bhp engine to around 250bhp maximum.
But they can remap the R engine to 305bhp. Both i'm guessing with the same tolerances for durability.

I wonder if the GTI you have in America are not using the latest emissions friendly engines but the old ones which are good for power?
 
Which in turn is found on TT-S and Golf R ( or R20 as its known in some markets ). But even then, they also said that the old 1.8T wasn't very moddable, yet I've read about many of those exceeding 400bhp.. before spitting conrods and other vital parts through the block. So why would the 2.0 TFSI be different? Factory spec cannot go so far, because factory tune is ALWAYS a compromise between performance and economy/reliability/emissions.
 
It's using the ea888, I think they have been since 2010 MY.
The engines can take more but VW just likely wants you to think otherwise.
 
The higher power R engine uses a rubber timing belt. The newer lower power engines use cam chains. That's just one difference between the 210bhp and 280bhp VW engines. They are not the same engines.
 
They are different enough to be a different class of engine and different enough to the amount of power they can handle. If one is safer it means they are different.
 
How are they a different class of engine?
So if I change out the pistons in my 10.1:1 cr motor to 9.2:1, they are no longer the same motor?
 

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