We are so spoiled.

[Ritterkreuz]

The Season 3 update threads got me thinking. Sure, there's been a lot of back and forth in them, but no, this isn't a thread about taking sides. No, this is about how spoiled we are.

Remember GT1 on the the original PlayStation, or even GT2 for that matter? When you bought those games that was it. No updates, no seasonal challenges, no online anything. If you wanted to race a friend you called them over and had to do a 2 person arcade mode race.

So, whether you think the challenges are too hard, too easy, just right, or whatever, just think back to those days when we literally got nothing at all after we bought the game. Be thankful that PD as well as many, many other developers continue to update products we've already paid for.

 

[Tvensky]

If nobody will say at least something how in hell PD or someone else will learn?

More people will say whats good and whats bad, more PD will understand what we realy want and make it next time, so more people can be happy... EASY! 👍

PS. PD is speacial developer. When I play the game it makes me feel like PD actually care for the game as much as me, and constantly make or at least trying to make it better 👍

 

[Beliall]

Too right!

Although I do miss my Bright green memory chip full of awesome cars I would take over to said friends house with pride.

 

[Tha Darkness]

Although I agree with your statement, the flipside to that argument is that those games were finished when you bought them. Some would say this one is not.

 

[Samus]

Although I agree with your statement, the flipside to that argument is that those games were finished when you bought them. Some would say this one is not.

This.

 

[sumbrownkid]

Whatever happened to GT just being a game at the end of the day?

I'd be more ticked off if my PS3 didn't have wifi on it then GT5 not being "complete".

 

[Beliall]

What about the players who have no internet? I bet they're chuffed with GT5, because they aren't here reading everyones complaints.

 

[Ritterkreuz]

If nobody will say at least something how in hell PD or someone else will learn?

More people will say whats good and whats bad, more PD will understand what we realy want and make it next time, so more people can be happy... EASY! 👍

I fully understand that feedback is necessary to make a game better, don't get me wrong. I'm just pointing out how spoiled we are in that these days we simply expect such updates, and demand that our free updates be perfect to boot.

 

[Samus]

I fully understand that feedback is necessary to make a game better, don't get me wrong. I'm just pointing out how spoiled we are in that these days we simply expect such updates, and demand that our free updates be perfect to boot.

But it's swings and roundabouts, if we didn't have updates developers would be forced to put out finished and non-glitched products in the first place like they used to do. As it is they know they can update afterwards no, so they do.

 

[35mm]

Yep. I call it the "Crustless Bread Generation".

 

[netnai]

Sorry, but I disagree... with GT and GT2 we are talking about 1997 an 1999 (maybe i am wrong)... but this is at least 11 years ago... a lot of things have changed since then, like the market rules for a lot of business (remember music, movies...).
Right now, and we're lucky, it is not enough to launch a game with a lot of bugs and that's all...
Maybe the error of this new GT is to be a nineties GT with visual steroids... They need to evolve the formula for all us (casual and hardcore players).
Offering more (dlc, free contents, competitions,...) and listening the fans, the game will be better and better, for our joy and their profits

 

[sumbrownkid]

Sorry, but I disagree... with GT and GT2 we are talking about 1997 an 1999 (maybe i am wrong)... but this is at least 11 years ago... a lot of things have changed since then, like the market rules for a lot of business (remember music, movies...).
Right now, and we're lucky, it is not enough to launch a game with a lot of bugs and that's all...
Maybe the error of this new GT is to be a nineties GT with visual steroids... They need to evolve the formula for all us (casual and hardcore players).
Offering more (dlc, free contents, competitions,...) and listening the fans, the game will be better and better, for our joy and their profits

Maybe Kaz should...everyone hold their breaths...take some ideas from other games, notably from that game on the Xbox which I will not dare utter here.

 

[netnai]

Maybe Kaz should...everyone hold their breaths...take some ideas from other games, notably from that game on the Xbox which I will not dare utter here.

Maybe... everyone hold their breaths again... some changes must come like retire Kaz, add more western feeling, evolve the game towards a game with a huge social base (motor fans all over the world)... and more, more, more.

Yeah, Kaz is the mentor, but now he is not doing useful work in PD, he lost his touch in the games... he must leave and... maybe, return in some years... do you know about someone called Mr. Steve Jobs?

 

[HumanDestroyah]

Maybe... everyone hold their breaths again... some changes must come like retire Kaz, add more western feeling, evolve the game towards a game with a huge social base (motor fans all over the world)... and more, more, more.

Yeah, Kaz is the mentor, but now he is not doing useful work in PD, he lost his touch in the games... he must leave and... maybe, return in some years... do you know about someone called Mr. Steve Jobs?

I'm really not sure what that means. More NASCAR, more drag racing? Can someone please expand on this?

 

[sumbrownkid]

I'm really not sure what that means. More NASCAR, more drag racing? Can someone please expand on this?

Presentation, as in the menus, music selection (though it is already western oriented a little bit).

 

[sumbrownkid]

Maybe... everyone hold their breaths again... some changes must come like retire Kaz, add more western feeling, evolve the game towards a game with a huge social base (motor fans all over the world)... and more, more, more.

Yeah, Kaz is the mentor, but now he is not doing useful work in PD, he lost his touch in the games... he must leave and... maybe, return in some years... do you know about someone called Mr. Steve Jobs?

I see Kaz as the person who will never retire, until Sony forces him to, or his age prevents him from continue working on it. He can do the Kojima route, and hand the reigns to a younger development team and give some of his personal insights to the team while he takes care of the day to day operations of PD.

 

[xNEVER-ONEx]

Its not being spoiled, its just the industry standards have changed. All gamers now expect some sort of updates for all games, so its the norm now.

 

[fdjizm]

This sounds similar to my father's "...when I was young I had to walk 5 miles in the snow to..." lol technology advances we expect better things especially for a game that's taken 5 years to develop. it's 2011 I don't want to hear about GT1.

 

[Corrigan]

^ +1.

 

[buziii]

I'll say we're spoiled, but for a different reason. As someone already said, PD can't win. They either make them too hard or too easy. So I think they did the right thing. Everyone chooses for themselves how easy or difficult they want the challenge to be. Why do we care if someone else makes it easier than we do? Baffles the mind.

If you want it to be impossible, run it stock. If you want it to be super easy, mod and tune it to the max. I've yet to hear anybody say it was too easy when they ran it stock. I like to run it stock a few times first to get a feel for the car and how much it needs, then I add a bit and try it again.

Seems perfectly logical to me. But then again, I'm a Republican.

 

[tinram]

If nobody will say at least something how in hell PD or someone else will learn?

More people will say whats good and whats bad, more PD will understand what we realy want and make it next time, so more people can be happy... EASY! 👍

PS. PD is speacial developer. When I play the game it makes me feel like PD actually care for the game as much as me, and constantly make or at least trying to make it better 👍

With all the complaints coming from whiners, we will end up with high beams, 3d shadows and cup holders instead of more events, tracks and premium cars.

 

[Corrigan]

I've yet to hear anybody say it was too easy when they ran it stock.

The Rome one in the C4 WRC was way too easy, as was the Ford GT one.

 

[Ritterkreuz]

I did not start this thread to debate the seasonal events. It was just my way of saying that I'm thankfully to have gotten any new events at all.

 

[saint_dracula]

I fully understand that feedback is necessary to make a game better, don't get me wrong. I'm just pointing out how spoiled we are in that these days we simply expect such updates, and demand that our free updates be perfect to boot.

I'm afraid that we're not spoiled. Spoiled implies a degree of unreasonableness, and I don't think that I've been unreasonable in complaining about GT5.


Something that needs to be made known is the relativity of standards. A primary school teacher is reasonable to expect good arithmetic from their student and an A-Level tutor would reasonably expect their student to handle calculus. We'd think the A-Level tutor unreasonable to expect their student to bring them a thesis on complex numbers. Where does the idea of reasonableness come from? It comes from the student's general ability/potential/capability. An intelligent A-Level student is - or ought to be - capable of various things that I'm not going to mention. It's therefore reasonable to expect of them to perform. This concept of reasonableness is context-dependent: we wouldn't expect our fish 'n' chips from our local chippy to be totally fat free, beautifully presented and served by a fit waiter. So if we thus complained, we would indeed be spoiled; if we complained at a restaurant, we wouldn't, because our expectation of those things would be reasonable.


Now the million dollar question: Are we reasonable in complaining about GT5? OH YEAH BABY, yes. What can we say about PD's capability/potential. Well, those of us who have played GT4 can say: a lot. That game was creative, possessing of diverse content, etc. If we were to expect of GT1 what we now expect of GT5, then we would be more spoiled than spoiled cabbage. Similarly, we'd be unreasonable in expecting of GT5 stuff that will only be available 20 years from now. We're especially justified in complaining given that some of us (not me, lo) invested significant moneys.

There's the evergreen reply to any complaints: you do it. My reply: Er, no. I'm not a programmer, I have many things I want to do in my life, and I don't want to learn programming from scratch. I can't make as good a game as GT5 and never will be able to. So what? Should I just keep schtum, despite being frustrated, just because I can't do what they do as well as they can? And even if I ended up making a game better than GT5, so what? If GT6 turns out to be rubbish, I'll find out, kick and scream initially, and stop playing the game. Then, I'll live my life happily ever after. The end.

 

[buziii]

The Rome one in the C4 WRC was way too easy, as was the Ford GT one.

Has anyone won those in bone stock vehicles? If so, I would agree that it's too easy. I haven't tried those yet.

 

[Corrigan]

Of course, loads of people. Myself included, with a DS3 and sloppy driving.

 

[prymet1me]

We are not spoiled, its 2011 and games have internet connectivity and things have progressed. Consoles finally are doing some sort of catching up with pc gaming net connectivity.

This thread was not about debating the difficulty of seasonal events.

 

[sumbrownkid]

I'll say we're spoiled, but for a different reason. As someone already said, PD can't win. They either make them too hard or too easy. So I think they did the right thing. Everyone chooses for themselves how easy or difficult they want the challenge to be. Why do we care if someone else makes it easier than we do? Baffles the mind.

If you want it to be impossible, run it stock. If you want it to be super easy, mod and tune it to the max. I've yet to hear anybody say it was too easy when they ran it stock. I like to run it stock a few times first to get a feel for the car and how much it needs, then I add a bit and try it again.

Seems perfectly logical to me. But then again, I'm a Republican.

BOOOOO!

Joking, I'm independent, but tend to lean to the Democrat side of things.

Anyway, I think PD took the bail out option, and just have everyone be able to decide for themselves.

Perhaps all the complaining got too much for them?

 

[saint_dracula]

We are not spoiled, its 2011 and games have internet connectivity and things have progressed. Consoles finally are doing some sort of catching up with pc gaming net connectivity.

This thread was not about debating the difficulty of seasonal events.

Summed up very well.

 

[buziii]

BOOOOO!

Joking, I'm independent, but tend to lean to the Democrat side of things.

Anyway, I think PD took the bail out option, and just have everyone be able to decide for themselves.

Perhaps all the complaining got too much for them?

So, from my perspective, you're an %$&# liberal! Also joking.

My point is that it's not a bail out option (nice choice of words, BTW ). It's the logical way to do it. You make it as hard as you personally want it to be. Now, if there are some that the best drivers can win with no upgrades, which it sounds like there are, then I would agree they screwed those up.