Weight Shifting Car Handling Tips

  • Thread starter MowTin
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MowTin

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I'm sure you all probably read the article from the "Professional" race car driver about GT5 that I'm quoting below

It's important to remember that a car's handling depends on how the weight of the engine shifts between the front and rear of the vehicle. A mid-engine car has a very neutral balance when not accelerating or braking, a state known as "even throttle." Therefore, when you step on the throttle in a mid-engine car, you force the majority of the car's weight onto the rear tires, generating grip. Conversely, if you lift off the throttle, you force the weight of the car onto the front tires, losing traction in the rear. For this reason, you almost always have to be on-throttle before you even enter a turn (especially in fast corners) for the car to maintain maximum grip and control. In a turn, "lifting-off" will cause the car to spin; simple as that. Add to this the fact that on slick racing tires grip doesn't break very progressively, and you realize how easy it is to do something stupid in a formula race car.
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He's saying that on fast corners, in a mid engine car, you have to be on the throttle when taking the turn.

I haven't really experience any of this. Does anyone have any car handling tips that involve weight transfer considerations?

For example when I drive the NSX '91 I find it EXTREMELY hard to control. Why? I know it's real wheel drive but are rear wheel drive cars really that unstable and dangerous? I feel like there is something I don't understand.

Anyone have some wisdom about weight transfer considerations in various turns in GT5? Any tips?
 
No, not all rwd cars are that unstable. It is mainly the Mid engined cars that are 'unstable' because a little more than 50% of the weight is behind the driver but infront of the rear axle as explained in that quote. If it were a Nissan 350Z, Mustang GT, TVR Speed Six, etc they would be more stable than the NSX because the engine in them is mounted infront of the driver, usually right on the front axle. Therefore it will usually understeer more than a car of a MR design. When driven right MR cars usually have an advantage over FR because of the weight distribution but only in the hands of a skilled driver.
 
I like getting round corners faster by remembering that when I brake, all the weight goes to the front wheels, thus giving more grip at the front, too much braking could lead to understeer, but if you do it right it could be like having a big fat spoiler at the nose of your car.
 
MowTin
I'm sure you all probably read the article from the "Professional" race car driver about GT5 that I'm quoting below



He's saying that on fast corners, in a mid engine car, you have to be on the throttle when taking the turn.

I haven't really experience any of this. Does anyone have any car handling tips that involve weight transfer considerations?

For example when I drive the NSX '91 I find it EXTREMELY hard to control. Why? I know it's real wheel drive but are rear wheel drive cars really that unstable and dangerous? I feel like there is something I don't understand.
Click to expand...



I think NSX '91's handling in the game is pretty accurate. Some people consider it to be one of the best handling cars because of that characteristic. I love the way the car handles. Very light weight and tossable around a corner.

Are rear wheel drive cars really that unstable and dangerous?
It can be very unstable and dangerous when you are unaware of what a rear wheel car will do when you lift off, overcorrect, or improperly weight shift and open up the trottle at the limits. The countersteering part of it is unnatural to the norm of driving for most drivers which make rear wheel driving at the limits hard to stablize. You will get it through practice. Rear wheel drive cars are fun to drive with some drifting involved. :)

Not all RWD cars are like this. The Ford Mustang for instance is a bit more stable RWD...it understeers a lot more than most rear wheel drive cars. Some might think this is stable, but I think it's designed this way for a less engaging, but more safe to drive car for the public.

RWD Sports cars like Ferrari, Lotus, NSX, and S2000 have a very balanced layout that can shift weight accurately with quick steering response for a sharp driving behave of point and go, or point and slide.

RWD Sports cars like the Corvette and Viper have massive power that they would become a handful when driving full trottle around a corner. Power on, and get the tail to slide, but be quick with your countersteer to catch it or you'll be doing 180s quickly.
 
The little "G" guage (the farther the white bar extends to either side, the more G's you are pulling) will help you understand what your car is doing during the corner. Ideally you should do 90% of your braking and accelerating when the gauge is showing little to no movement. Your car has exponentially more grip in a straight line, try braking completely straight and then try the same thing with the wheel turned 10 degrees. The contact area of the tire is reduced while turning, so your rear tires will grab while your front tires slide.

This article explains a bit better http://www.temporal.com.au/ggdiag.htm
 
BreakerOhio
I think NSX '91's handling in the game is pretty accurate. Some people consider it to be one of the best handling cars because of that characteristic. I love the way the car handles. Very light weight and tossable around a corner.
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I must admit I like the challenge and fun of driving the NSX but even at low speeds it seems unstable. Do ordinary people drive this car?
 
Yes I would agree to the argument that you need to have throttle going around a fast bend. Take Suzuka 130R for example, you try going through that with a lift, at 300+km/h. The first couple times I went around there (in GT4) with the Formula GT, I lifted. Not only do I get excessive oversteer, but the loss of downforce, ending up in a spin. But if you go flat out, or even just half-throttle, or what not, you will be fine.
 
I've just spent the last four hours driving around the NSX and he V06. I'm exhausted. I'm broken. I'm frustrated.

When accelerating out from the apex on any turn a little too much throttle and it's spin out city. I'll spin out even when I try to drive cautiously.

I realize that this happens when the tires are non-R. I was using S3.

S3 + RWD = Frustrationg :)

How could they sell corvettes if while driving down a sharp highway turn, putting just a little too much throttle led to a deadly crash?
 
That quote is funny. What are the point of brakes, as according to him you have to accelerate at all times? And if you let up a little bit you will spin, crash, and die?

A real "professional"...
 
I found these YouTube videos very informative.

This one really explains oversteering very well. I do notice that in oversteering cars you have to "wait" for the car to settle before you can hit the throttle after a turn.

This a must watch

Here is more oversteer. Here from this cockpit view I really see that GT5 is very realistic. In game I lose control just like this


Here is an example of a car that's really threatening to oversteer at every turn. That's almost what I feel like when driving the Z'O6 around Suzuka.


One thing I notice is that the drivers turn the wheel opposite lock VErY fast. Do you guys do the same with your DFP or G25? I'm afraid I may damage it.
 
I wouldn't be suprised if the quote in post one was taken out of the Racing 101 book.

Even though it was fantastic when it came out, GT4 lacked this type of realism IMO.

No offense to the modern fast guys, but with this type of realism will tell if they posses talent or arcade speed.
 
MowTin, I turn my DFP really fast. I m not sure if itwill be damaged, but oh well, there's no point of using a wheel if you are not going to drive properly lol.

And is the NSX really that oversteering? Maybe it's my style of driving or something, as far as I remember, the NSX was a pleasure to drive.
 
Last video....AC Cobra? Not suprised that thing was constntly oversteering, I had a play with one on the track a few years back it was the stupidest car I've ever tried to get round a corner, it was like trying to drive a drag car to the shops LOL

As for the NSX.......try just coasting round the bend first ie no power no breaking, see what it will comfortabley coast round at, then start introducing the power very late, then just introduce it a bit earlier in the turn till you find it loses traction.
Most cars have understeer, so as you feed the power on it slowly runs wide but in a controlled manner, some of the high powered RWD cars will give you oversteer which is much harder to correct but you can get round corners quicker than FWD when you get it working for you.....Now the NSX and its mid engine layout.....it's balanced, like with the F1 car and martin brundels description of all 4 wheels sliding at the same time, it means you have the control of understeer put also the speed of oversteer. The problem lies in that you need to use weight transference to get the best of it round a bend. Try this. First up enter the bend and aim for the apex, lift of the gas to induce a little oversteer at the apex to tighten up your turning angle, then feed the power on as you pass the apex and you should get understeer as you exit the turn, use the throttle to place the car on the outside of the bend as you exit.. takes practice and it's all about useing the throttle not the steering to control the car in the bend.
Ultimately your carrying to much speed into the bend, slow it down and then feed the power on slowly as you exit the turn. Sorry if this sounds patronizing, I don't know how much you understand all this.......There is of course trail brakeing if you really want to drive it on the edge, just don't try it with the pad, well not unless you have the dual shock 3 to get a little feedback LOL
One thing to allways remember is that all 4 tires have a grip limit, in a turn the sideways force of the vehicle is useing a large amount of the tires grip, any acceleration or deceleration useing the brakes uses tire grip........use too much and with the added force of turning the tires will lose grip, you need to off course balance this grip, another factor is the weight of the vehicle, decelerate and the weight shifts foreward adding more grip to the front and vica versa when accelerateing, off course this takes grip away form the oposite end of the car.....brakeing addds to the front and takes away from the rear, again this is exagerate whilst turning, (thus lift off oversteer) You can of course go TOO FAR and pile too much weight on the front end and lock the wheels if you brake too hard, then your just going along for the ride LOL. Ive noticed with GT5p if you just use half travel on the right stick you may find brakeing a little more effective. Right I'll shut up now, let us know how you get on. Just take it slow and build up your speed till you find the grip limits and use the throtle and brake to control the car in the corners.

If your really stugleing with this car stick say R2 tires on the back and R3 on the front to induce more understeer and make the car a little more easy to control on the exits of corners
 
Go to the link in my signature to the GT4 tuning guides, from the thread it opens up, download the first of the guides. It covers handling balance and weight transfer and its effect on both handling and tuning in more than enough detail to get you going.

The principal reason you are struggling with a mid engined car is that the weight is concentrated in the centre of the car. As such little force is required to start the car turning, which makes it very manouverable, the down side is that it will want to keep doing that, so catching oversteer and correcting it becomes more difficult. Shorter wheelbase cars will also increase the problem.

MowTin
He's saying that on fast corners, in a mid engine car, you have to be on the throttle when taking the turn.
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Yes that is what he is saying, but always remember that the throttle does not have to be mashed to the floor all the time, what he is talking about is a constant throttle position and no sudden harsh application or removal of throttle. Fast driving on the limit is all about smoothness, an sharp application of acceleration or deceleration risks the chance of destabilising the car. Always keep two things in mind (in regard to both brakes and the throttle), first they are not analog they don't have to be either fully on or fully off, particularly when cornering. Secondly smoothness = speed, sharp actions will rarely be the best ones. A quick but smooth application of steering, throttle and brakes will always be better, it allows the weight transfer and loading to be done as smoothly as possible and help retain control.

I know a lot of you guys are new here (and welcome) but you may find that a lot of these topics have already been discussed in regard to GT4, now I know the physics engine has changed, but as a starting point a lot of good info exists in the GT4 forums (particularly in the set-ups and tuning area - look at the sticky threads for info on weight transfer, brakes, etc). So a search in a few of these areas will help you out a lot.


As far as cars doing this in reality, if you drive them in the same manner you would on the track, well yes they would. In reality no sane person (who want to live that long) would approach the same limits on the open road.


Regards

Scaff
 

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