What Cars need a BoP adjustment?

  • Thread starter Voodoovaj
  • 23 comments
  • 1,478 views
Voodoovaj

Voodoovaj

3,603
Canada
London, Ontario
voodoovaj
As the title says, some cars need and adjustment because they are just not up to par no matter where they get used (IMHO).

Of me, the McLaren and SLS in both Group 3 AND Group 4 need to go on a diet. IIRC the Gr3's were adjusted for 1.32 but, I think, it was to their detriment.

Opinions and why?

As for the other cars, I hope nothing gets nerfed. Maybe the Gr4 Audi TT could use a little nerfing.
 
Having less than 100 days experience in the game means I could be mistaken, but the Group 4 458 mystifies me, I think that it is a really nice drive and presumed that in the hands of someone good would be an awesome race car, but in races it is conspicuous (to me at least) by its absense. I've seen fast exponents of this car, but they are rare, is it that the BoP isnt very kind to it?
 
8l23ub
Having less than 100 days experience in the game means I could be mistaken, but the Group 4 458 mystifies me, I think that it is a really nice drive and presumed that in the hands of someone good would be an awesome race car, but in races it is conspicuous (to me at least) by its absense. I've seen fast exponents of this car, but they are rare, is it that the BoP isnt very kind to it?
Click to expand...

I have to agree. I have 1 win with it and it was because of some very fortuitous matchmaking. Compared to my other GR4 cars, it seems lacking. I wholeheartedly agree it could use a little help.
 
The Gr4 SLS is good. Had no issues with it in the previous season for MFG.

The Gr3 Jag in the current BoP is terrible. No redeeming qualities, just mildly sub-par in everything. I had the misconception is was fast in a straight. It's below average there too.

Worst car in current patch I think has to be the Gr3 Z4 though. When's the last time you even saw one.
 
There are too many cars that have drastic tire degradation problems.
This forces them to use sub optimal tire strategies.

I think if PD is going to constantly have tire wear turned up, they need to rethink the tire degradation models because certain cars wear much faster than others (looking at you GR.3 Ferrari) and all of the FWD gr.4's have very bad tire life compared to the RWD / AWD competitors.
 
Nismo Lm Gtr needs buff. It eats up front tires so damn quickly which negates its frontal downforce advantage. Also due to power curve car cannot reach higher top speeds then any other lmp1 car. Deserves a buff.

Also Mazda 787b is literally worse then Nissan R92cp in every single way.
 
This is going to be a long one. There are numbers supporting a lot of these suggestions, but I'm basing a lot on gut feeling too so I might be off on some of these. Nonetheless, I think it would improve the meta overall.

People don't like seeing their favourite cars get nerfed, so this post is mostly going to be biased towards buffs. To counter the possibility of this making lap times too fast compared to IRL, I would limit the FIA tyre selection to Mediums and Hards only. This also has the benefit of using the two most well balanced compounds in regards to speed vs durability.

But I digress, let's start with Group 4;
Alfa 4C: 106 power/115 weight (current: 102/109)
BMW M4: 99 power/105 weight (current: 99/106)
Bugatti Veyron: 93 power/90 weight (current: 103/100)
Chevrolet Corvette: 94 power/109 weight (current: 94/110)
Dodge Viper: 92 power/106 weight (current: 92/107)
Ford Mustang: 102 power/104 weight (current: 102/105)
Honda NSX: 95 power/108 weight (current: 94/108)
Lexus RCF: 99 power/102 weight (current: 99/103)
Nissan GTR: 96 power/103 weight (current: 97/105)
Peugeot RCZ: 100 power/90 weight (current: 111/100)
Renault Trophy: 92 power/120 weight (current: 87/115)
Subaru WRX: 100 power/102 weight (current: 99/102)
VW Scirocco: 96 power/104 weight (current: 92/100)

The Alfa is in the same position in the meta right now as the Megane Trophy was when it first hit the scene. We need to be careful not to nerf it in the same way the Trophy got nerfed however, as you don't want to completely kill a car off. Hence, a lot of weight but a power boost too. The Bugatti is a very situational car right now and I'd like cars to be more well rounded in general, so I put it on a diet. And attempt is made to fix the Peugeot's extreme tyre wear issues by likewise taking 10% weight off. And the aforementioned Trophy gets some straight line speed, but more weight prevents this from becoming a problem on the twisties.

The rest are smaller tweaks designed to help slow cars and/or cars that have tyre wear issues in the class. The GTR and Scirocco are exceptions; these changes are designed to close the overall weight gap between the lightest and heaviest cars in Group 4.

Moving on to Group 3;
Alfa 4C: 107 power/106 weight (current: 105/105)
Aston Vantage: 112 power/105 weight (current: 112/106)
BMW M3: 111 power/106 weight (current: 111/107)
BMW Z4: 106 power/109 weight (current: 104/108)
Citroen GT: 88 power/110 weight (current: 87/110)
Dodge Viper: 82 power/103 weight (current: 81/103)
Ferrari 458: 99 power/107 weight (current: 99/109)
Ford GT: 90 power/112 weight (current: 90/114)
Ford Mustang: 109 power/101 weight (current: 109/102)
Hyundai Genesis: 114 power/105 weight (current: 114/106)
Mazda Atenza: 106 power/103 weight (current: 107/104)
McLaren 650S: 110 power/106 weight (current: 110/107)
Mercedes SLS: 102 power/99 weight (current: 102/100)
Mitsubishi Lancer: 108 power/103 weight (current: 107/103)
Renault RS01: 99 power/108 weight (current: 99/109)
Subaru WRX: 107 power/103 weight (current: 107/104)

There are less major changes needed here, but the Ferrari needs it's buff the most. I don't know if this is enough but it's still better than what we have. I might have been a bit generous with the Ford GT, but after losing it's power advantage, I felt it too needed less weight to combat the tyre issues. Otherwise this is a mix of reverted nerfs and other buffs that I feel would help, except for the Atenza, which I only reverted because I didn't like the idea of a Gr3 car having 606hp.

Group 2 now;
Honda 16 NSX: 101 power/100 weight (current: 100/100)
Honda 08 NSX: 115 power/92 weight (current: 121/100)
Lexus SC430: 124 power/93 weight (current: 130/100)
Nissan 16 GTR: 99 power/100 weight (current: 100/100)
Nissan 08 GTR: 120 power/93 weight (current: 126/100)

The hopeful outcome of reducing the weight of the 2008 cars is that they become much faster, without becoming even harder to drive than they already are. As for the 2016 cars, a pecking order has been established, with the GTR faster than the Lexus and the NSX being difficult, so it may be time to move away from a non-BoP model to try and fix it.

And for Group 1;
Alpine VGT: 99 power/100 weight (current: 100/100)
Bugatti VGT: 104 power/100 weight (current: 103/100)
Jaguar XJR9: 92 power/100 weight (current: 90/100)
Mazda 787B: 99 power/100 weight (current: 98/100)
Mclaren VGT: 92 power/100 weight (current: 90/100)
Nissan GTLM: 103 power/100 weight (current: 100/100)
Toyota TS050: 101 power/100 weight (current: 100/100)

Windfire's recent BoP tests were used as the basis of both these tweaks and the ones in Group 2. The 2016 Toyota doesn't have the strong ICE of the Audi or near limitless boost of the Porsche, so it may be time to give it some help. The tests also confirmed my feelings about the Bugatti being unfairly treated, so it's time to rectify that too. I didn't want to make Group C too strong on power tracks, so I merely balanced the cars that are weak even by Group C standards.

That's it from me, now I'll leave it in other posters hands to agree or disagree with these suggestions.
 
All the FWD Gr4 cars need to have their power reduced vastly. Both Mclarens need less weight and a power boost and both Gr3 Fords need a power reduction as does the Gr3 Peugeot VGT thing.
 
@JayOTT
Wow that is a very exhaustive but I think very well thought out list. Im gonna have to agree with most things you've put on there but only wonder that if you boost that many cars, then the cars that need the boosts the most might not gain enough to become competitive.

I feel that the ferrari and mclaren should get a buff in gr4 as well as Ive never seen them used and Ive never been competitive in them. Same in gr3 I think they deserve 1 less weight than you've put, as in all honesty they should be two of the best handling cars in any group. If that makes them too fast then we'll know within a couple days, buts it's worth finding out in my opinion, especially before the official FIA events begin.

I like what you're thinking in gr2 but I feel like the 2016 Gtr isnt overpowered it's the most balanced. I feel like the NSX is actually faster but harder to keep straight but thats a fair trade off... Maybe make the acura a little lighter and give the Lexus 102 power and the Nissan 101.
Those are just my feelings

Thanks for your post I hope PD sees it.
 
Not sure I agree with a lot of what is being said.

Gr.4 has an issue with tyre wear, not with bop. In a field of Alfa's, I was able to get 4th at Suzuka last night in the Audi. There are a couple of cars I would boost slightly, but only slightly. If they boost the tyre wear of the alfa a little then I think that will help a lot, similar to what they did to the Cayman in the last patch.

Gr.3 is fine. I was in a race with Super GT last night and he got the Mclaren around Brands Hatch to pick up 2nd, so it looks fine to me. Lightning seems to be doing ok in it as well. Overall I think the bop is pretty good at the moment. Personally I would give Ferrari a 1% power boost, but that is about it.

Gr.2 needs to be broken in 2, so the old cars are in a separate group (lets call it GT500). New cars are pretty close tbh, maybe a slight tweak. Old cars maybe need a little bit of tweaking.

Gr.1 runs into the issue of having loads of different technologies in one group. Not sure it will ever be possible to balance unless they rip the VGT cars and the group C out and put them in separate groups, they are just too different. Saying that, most of the gr.1 races I have been in recently, I have been able to race a non-meta car and be competitive so I think it isn't bad.

Unless Polyphony wants to have bop for every track(possible, but a lot of work), then I think they are doing a decent job. There will always be a meta car for every race but with the way they show the best times that is always going to be the case. I still think they should have a dropdown brand selector in the best times table so you could see if any other car was close to the meta.
 
Well this list for sure can only be updated based on races like C, where you have tire wear and fuel consumption.

So the cars that we hardly see and I guess they may need some tweaks:

Gr3:
Alfa Romeo; +power + weight
Aston Martin; -weight
Dodge Viper; -weight
Mclaren, +power
Porsche, +weigh
Toyota ft1VGT -power -weight (or some way to improve fuel consumption)
R8 - some way to improve Tyre wear (but this is always a risk to become a meta car)

Gr1:
Well if its BOP then the NISMO needs a total rework.
787b -weight -> shifting is slow, tire wear high, you have to compensate that.
audi VGT, alpine VGT and mclaren VGT, buggati VGT -> +power : this ones are almost not used.
jaguar -> -weight
 
ShiftingGears
N classes need an overhaul. Theres only maybe two or three cars at most that can get within two seconds of the best time for N400 Nations race.
Click to expand...

The N Classes are a different beast entirely. I don't believe it's even feasible to properly BoP the N Classes because of their very nature. To me, it's like when people used to run lobbies with power and weight limits. I hated those rooms. They were, by far, the most imbalanced rooms every time.

If PP was brought back to some degree, I think that would help the N Classes. I'm thinking of a BoP/PP Hybrid.


As for the list @JayOTT provided, the only comment I would make is that I wouldn't put any car on a diet below 100%. Since the inception of this game, weight has been the best place to gain or decrease performance. I firmly believe that a 10% weight reduction would make any car over powered.



As for the tire degradation, I think the degradation model is simply too game like. It makes no sense. I have never known tires to degrade in performance in a linear fashion. I've never gone out on new tires, only to have them be worse on the next lap, then worse, still, etc, etc, etc. Yes, ultra soft qualifier type tires will degrade SUPER fast, but everything else isn't useless at half it's life.

I went looking for lap times and then I remember that motogp gives you all this post race. Here is a link to the last Malaysian GP lap analysis.

http://resources.motogp.com/files/results/2018/MAL/MotoGP/RAC/analysisbylap.pdf?v1_9d5960ba

Throughout the race, the lap times fluctuate, but they don't decrease by massive amounts. There's no tire changes in motogp, so these are the tires from new on lap 1 to toast on lap 20. The times don't just fall off a cliff. I realize that's not the case for all tires, IIRC, a few years back, the F1 tires would fall off a cliff after a couple laps, and then came back, but still, they didn't become useless at half life.

Asking to change the model is a bit too much of a request IMHO. It would never happen. But asking for a change in how much performance is lost seems reasonable.
 
Lost Sheltie
Gr.1 runs into the issue of having loads of different technologies in one group. Not sure it will ever be possible to balance unless they rip the VGT cars and the group C out and put them in separate groups, they are just too different. Saying that, most of the gr.1 races I have been in recently, I have been able to race a non-meta car and be competitive so I think it isn't bad.
Click to expand...

What instead of making new groups altogether, if they had events where the usual Gr.1 BoP still applied, but there were also more specific limitations on what cars could be used, a bit like in GT league? Like a Gr.1 event where you can only use the Group C cars.
 
The underlying issue is that the ideal BOP is dependent on the settings used for a particular race. What track? How much tire wear and fuel usage? Race distance? Tire compounds available?

Personally, I see total race time for a given car to be a good starting point. If I could take any car and finish within, say, 5 seconds of the best total time, at least I know that even a weak combo is worth racing.

With that said, some personal opinions based on recent experience:

Audi/Lambo/Ferrari Gr3: These I feel need a setup change more than anything else so that they're more accessible to drive. Possible tire wear tweaks afterwards.

Lexus Gr3: I find it too good at too many places with great fuel mileage and wear. More power but more weight.

Lexus Gr4: Less power but much less weight. Piggish car.

Mercedes Gr4/Gr3: Nerf tire wear. Too good atm.

Lancer Gr4: More power, better gearbox and tire wear.

Pug Gr4: Less power but much better tire wear

Alfa 4C: More weight and new setup that makes it, you know, predictable.

Toyota Gr3/Gr4: Nerf its tire wear somehow

Slowbaru Gr3/Gr4: Gee. I wonder what it needs...



Also, tire wear and fuel quite bad. Fix one.
 
8l23ub
Having less than 100 days experience in the game means I could be mistaken, but the Group 4 458 mystifies me, I think that it is a really nice drive and presumed that in the hands of someone good would be an awesome race car, but in races it is conspicuous (to me at least) by its absense. I've seen fast exponents of this car, but they are rare, is it that the BoP isnt very kind to it?
Click to expand...

I'm running Ferrari in the manufacturer races, and the current BoP it appears to compete just fine for 1 lap pace. As soon as tire wear is introduced, they fall apart. The gr4 has horrible front wear and the gr3 has horrible rear wear which becomes so difficult to drive. So i feel that a lot of cars are on pace with each other, and the cars need a setup tweak to bring them in line for overall race pace.

Or rather than making races tire restricted, make them both fuel and tire restricted, to allow for drivers to drive around shortcomings in their cars. Previosly it was fuel restricted so only the most fuel efficient cars were competitive, which also wasnt great
 
OutlawQuadrnt
Audi/Lambo/Ferrari Gr3: These I feel need a setup change more than anything else so that they're more accessible to drive. Possible tire wear tweaks afterwards.
Click to expand...

I think their BoP to accessibility is good at the moment. The Ferrari can use a hand, but since the 1.32 update, these cars are far better than they used to be. The Huracan in particular would become the new 911. It's somewhat difficult nature balances out it's outright pace. IMHO

I think the R8 is already there.

It's my most winning car


OutlawQuadrnt
Also, tire wear and fuel quite bad. Fix one.
Click to expand...

Yes, absolutely.

I'd add also that I don't think tire wear should ever be off (at least in Sport Mode). Just change the wear rate. I so HATE that you practice with no wear, and then get hit with the change to wear. It always take me a lap to acclimate.
 

Latest Posts

Back