What country would you want back in the WRC?

[Simmpa]

Very hard to choose, personally I would wish they could bring back a country outside from Europe. I Think a new round could replace Poland since It´s too similar to Finland. I want more different rallies in the calendar.

 

[TheElbows]

Seeing that the ERC has far more interesting and beautiful rallies...with arguably more interesting machinery (not to mention fantastic TV coverage), I'd be fine ditching the terribly boring WRC altogether. But if we're skipping that option, I'd like to see Indonesia back or a proper Sahara rally.

If we steal anything from the ERC...go to the Azores or Estonia (nearly as fast as Finland).

 

[NSX_LeMans]

Voted for Ireland, but Kenya would be a good one too.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I think I would be more inclined to pick a new event based on the surface and conditions.

That said, there aren't any tropical events at the moment, so I would vote for Indonesia.

 

[APIOQM]

Somewhere I could drive to in Canada or USA!

 

[HELLAFLUSH240SX]

U.S
Where? Either the Northwest, Southwest or Midwest.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

U.S
Where? Either the Northwest, Southwest or Midwest.

Denver is really the only place that I can think of that could host it. It's close to Pike's Peak that it has an existing connection to a major motorsport event, and the roads around the Rocky Mountains would make for a combination of tarmac, gravel and snow.

 

[Samus]

What WRC needs are more competitive teams and drivers. To say it's slim pickings these days would be an understatement.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I Think a new round could replace Poland since It´s too similar to Finland.

They're both quick, but they're radically different. Poland has a hard-baked surface that is really quite delicate; too much wheelspin tends to carve it up, so you get this rough, sandy layer underneath that's a lot like the Acropolis (you tend to see it in slow corners). Finland, on the other hand, has a hard-packed, smooth surface.

What WRC needs are more competitive teams and drivers.

2016 doesn't look too bad. There are three works Volkswagens for Ogier, Latvala and Mikkelsen; three full-time Hyundais for Neuville, Paddon and Sordo and one part-time for Abbring; two works Fiestas for Ostberg and Camilli and two private entries for Tanak, and a second driver (expected to be Ketomaa); and four part-time Citroëns for Meeke, Lefebvre, Breen and al-Qassimi that will compete in as many as ten rounds. I would also expect further entries - Fiestas - for Evans, Kubica and Prokop, and possibly Bertelli and Protasov. At its best, we could see as many as twenty WRC cars at events.

 

[Speedster502]

They'd never visit Indonesia as it's not a market the manufacturers want to expand into. Same really goes for Africa too.

I'd love to see them return to New Zealand, even if it meant alternating with Australia. It's a classic rally with some gorgeous roads that really needs to be put back onto the world stage.

Alternatively a 'sandy' rally over in Jordan or nearer Dubai might be interesting as we don't have anything else like that currently and considering we have the 'Abu Dhabi World Rally Team' for 2016 it would make sense...

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Alternatively a 'sandy' rally over in Jordan or nearer Dubai might be interesting as we don't have anything else like that currently

Jordan was as unpopular as it was unique. All of the roads were built specifically for the rally, and they were sprayed with water from the Dead Sea to preserve the surface. The high salt content of the water created a diamond-hard surface that offered next to no grip. So it was quick, rough and slippery. But a lot of roads ran through active military proving grounds, so spectator access was non-existant.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

Not gonna happen for political and environmental reasons, but I'd love to see a WRC in Antarctica. Just for the lulz

 

[Legro]

2016 doesn't look too bad. There are three works Volkswagens for Ogier, Latvala and Mikkelsen; three full-time Hyundais for Neuville, Paddon and Sordo and one part-time for Abbring; two works Fiestas for Ostberg and Camilli and two private entries for Tanak, and a second driver (expected to be Ketomaa); and four part-time Citroëns for Meeke, Lefebvre, Breen and al-Qassimi that will compete in as many as ten rounds. I would also expect further entries - Fiestas - for Evans, Kubica and Prokop, and possibly Bertelli and Protasov. At its best, we could see as many as twenty WRC cars at events.

Even though it is true that we'll probably have quite a good number of WRC cars next year, the fact is, it's hard to imagine that most of them are really going to be competitive against Volkswagen in the actual championship, even with odd podium results here and there for Ford and Citroën drivers. The cars may be there, but the chances are that Prokop, or Tänak in a customer Fiesta aren't going to be the drivers that will do much more than fill the entry list and have an occasional 'okay' result. Hyundai might do better next year though, with their new car (and hopefully they will) so that might help with the current situation where only 3 drivers are actually relevant in the championship.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

the current situation where only 3 drivers are actually relevant in the championship

That's usually the way it goes in most championships.

 

[Pupik]

I'd like to see it in the US, and there's plenty of places with the terrain to do so. The problem is that most places would be risk-management nightmares and/or the negative environmental impact would get blown out of control by the press.

Louisiana it is, then. Swamp to it!

 

[Liquid]

I always did love the Acropolis Rally, that got my vote. Indonesia and the USA a close second and third.

 

[Wiegert]

A toss-up between Indonesia and Kenya. Went with the latter given the Safari Rally's more prolific history and formidable reputation. The WRC never felt the same without it.

 

[RACECAR]

Would like a US round, mostly in Colorado as I've been there and indeed I agree its perfect.

 

[mustafur]

Kenya, Safari Rally enough said.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Looking at the current fourteen rallies, I wonder what could reasonably be sacrificed. Monte Carlo, Sweden, Finland and Wales are all sacrosanct. Mexico and Argentina work in lieu of Acropolis as a rough event. Germany is always good because of the wide variety of tarmac surfaces and hinkelsteins. And I think China is important for the manufacturers.

So firstly, I would merge Spain and Portugal and make it a longer event. I would also investigate alternating Australia and New Zealand. Sadly, I think Corsica or Sadegna needs to go. I would keep Corsica and revive San Remo, then merge it with Austria. Rallying needs to go back to Africa, but I don't think the Safari is suitable anymore, so South Africa is a possibility; there was talk of a rally there a while ago, but China got the spot. Speaking of China, I would revive Japan to keep up the Asian contingent. I would also introduce a tropical rally, possibly in India, Thailand or Malaysia.

So, my calendar would look like this:

1 - Monte Carlo
2 - Sweden
3 - United States
4 - Mexico
5 - Argentina
6 - Spain and Portugal
7 - Corsica
8 - Italy and Austria
9 - Germany
10 - Finland
11 - Poland
12 - China
13 - Japan
14 - Australia/New Zealand
15 - (TBA, tropical)
16 - South Africa
17 - Wales

Would like a US round, mostly in Colorado as I've been there and indeed I agree its perfect.

I think that the problem rallying faces in America is that Americans view it as an extreme sport, whereas Europeans present it as much more of a discipline. One of the trends that I have really hated in the sport is the over-reliance on spectator-friendly stages. They're two-kilometre point-and-squirt car parks that the top drivers hate because they used to be run first and would thus set the running order for the actual stages, and the privateers detest because it's so easy to bend the car and have an expensive mistake. By all means, have a head-to-head super special stage, but run it in a knockout format at the start or the end of the rally. Don't let it count for competitive mileage.

The other thing a rally needs is ready spectator access. Only purists will chase the event from stage to stage, but you need to cater to a wider audience. One of the best experiences that I had was at the 2005 Rally Australia - on the first day of competition, we went out to Murray Pines I and Murray Pines II. The roads were deliberately laid out so the the two stages ran within a hundred metres of one another in a valley. Two spectator areas were crafted around it, and they stopped the cars every half-hour to let you walk from one to the other. With both stages being run twice, you got to see a lot of action. And because each stage was run either side of the valley, you could arm yourself with a pair of binoculars and track the progress of half a dozen different cars at any one time.

But most importantly, a rally in America needs character. I think events like Cyprus and Turkey failed because they were just too similar to the Acropolis. Likewise, Alsace fell flat because it was too similar to Germany. Denver would be my first choice, but a mixed-surface event out of Los Angeles could also work. The Catskills could also be a suitable venue.

 

[twitcher]

I can't see rallying taking off in the US due to the liability culture.

Any rally near a populated center would need to basically rewrite the constitution in order to appease everyone effected by the stages. Anyone who had a blade of grass on their property damaged would be looking to sue for as much as possible.

Plus, for every person who would go to the rally, there would be 100 who would only be annoyed by its precence and the subsequent inconvenience.

If you aren't near a major center, you're in the boonies, and I just don't see the average American sports fan making a 4 hour journey down gravel roads to reach the destination.

Rallying is also difficult / different to follow when watching on TV, and for most people, is far too confusing when compared with the sports they are used to. If you aren't a person who follows the World Championship, chances are you probably won't make the effort to attend the local event.

Lastly I think the mini van driving, soccer mom community would jump all over it, condemning it for encouraging "dangerous driving". Like @prisonermonkeys said, in America it is viewed as an extreme sport, not a discipline. Hell, most Americans don't even realize that rallying actually involves following the rules of the road.

To most Americans, rallying is like skateboarding with a motor. It's a public nuisance and we don't want it here!

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Plus, for every person who would go to the rally, there would be 100 who would only be annoyed by its precence and the subsequent inconvenience.

I was surprised at just how quickly Austinites took to the Grand Prix, and I think that you would be able to capitalise on that. There is a certain appeal to holding a World Championship event - when Tweed Heads gave up on Rally Australia, Coffs Harbour asked "where do we sign?" and figured out the details later.

Anyone who had a blade of grass on their property damaged would be looking to sue for as much as possible.

There are existing - albeit limited - domestic rallies in the United States. There's reasonably popular as entry-level international rounds; drivers like Brendan Reeves, who did well on the Australian domestic scene, go over to the American rounds to get experience on a new event without being in the spotlight that comes with the European rounds.

It probably wouldn't be too hard to find forestry roads that don't interfere with anyone's property. That's why I think Denver or the greater Los Angeles metro area would be perfect. Just looking at the Denver area in Google Maps, there's dozens of roads maked "closed in winter". Like Trail Ridge Road, which would be perfect for rally.

Plus, it brings a boost to the local economies - all those towns that exist at the periphery of major urban areas would reap the benefits.

in America it is viewed as an extreme sport, not a discipline.

I think that it can be both - on the one hand, you have the extreme range of conditions, which no other motorsport offers. But at the same time, you have the discipline of car control and team-work within the car.

 

[twitcher]

There are existing - albeit limited - domestic rallies in the United States. There's reasonably popular as entry-level international rounds; drivers like Brendan Reeves, who did well on the Australian domestic scene, go over to the American rounds to get experience on a new event without being in the spotlight that comes with the European rounds.

It probably wouldn't be too hard to find forestry roads that don't interfere with anyone's property. That's why I think Denver or the greater Los Angeles metro area would be perfect. Plus, it brings a boost to the local economies - all those towns that exist at the periphery of major urban areas would reap the benefits.

This is true, there are rallies in the US, even here in Canada too, but like I said, they take place in the middle of butt-🤬 nowhere. That's fine for a grassroots scene, but I think it would be difficult to drag the kind of crowd a WRC round would expect, that far out into the backcountry. Where do all those people park? Where do they eat? Bathrooms?

Around places like Denver, Cali, etc, there is very very little left in the way of Crown Land (sorry don't know what they call it in the US). Almost everything is privately owned, until you get far enough away from the city that you are in the situation discribed above.

The roads themselves are an issue as well. In rural US/Canada, there aren't really any "abandoned" or "unused" roads. Roads are either access to someone's property (and I don't think closing off someone's only property access would fly, not without compensation at least), or in the western, forested, mountain regions, forestry roads are carved in by logging companies who use them. It is the logging companies responsibility to maintain the road, and they certainly would not tolerate losing use of their road during the week days. Plus, I don't think they would tolerate the actual damage to the road surface itself, as it would probably require a pass with a grader before it could be traversed by a fully loaded logging truck. Once the cut block is finished, the road is decommissioned by removing all the bridges, culverts, and digging cross ditches to aid water flow. Basically they become impassible in anything but a serious off-road vehicle, or a quad or dirt bike. So it's not like there is miles of abandoned logging roads just looking to be used.

Anywhere on the US East Coast, or anywhere in the South, is way too populated. There are people behind every tree. To me, the only viable locations would be in the desert in Cali, Nevada, New Mexico etc, but those stages would probably be very similar to Mexico?

I think that it can be both - on the one hand, you have the extreme range of conditions, which no other motorsport offers. But at the same time, you have the discipline of car control and team-work within the car.

I definitely agree with this personally. What I was saying was that the average American is not aware of the discipline aspect of rallying. All they know about rallying is what they know from X-Games....and all they do there is push the "extreme extreme EXTREME!!!"

Edit: Utah might offer some interesting terrain, although I'm not sure all the Mormons and mountain bikers would be enthralled

 

[prisonermonkeys]

To me, the only viable locations would be in the desert in Cali, Nevada, New Mexico etc, but those stages would probably be very similar to Mexico?

It depends on the character of the roads. A mixed-surface event is the obvious solution, since Monte Carlo and Catalyuna are the only two on the calendar. That's why I keep coming back to Denver - a mix of tarmac, snow and gravel.

It is the logging companies responsibility to maintain the road, and they certainly would not tolerate losing use of their road during the week days.

Again looking at Google Maps, there are some roads in Colorado that look impassable for semi-trailers seeing as how they are full of twists and turns.

I don't think closing off someone's only property access would fly, not without compensation at least

That's the beauty of rallying - the roads aren't closed for long. They would be closed for all of six hours on one day, with a break in between since the standard format is three stages (sometimes four, depending on their total length), repeated twice over the course of one leg, and occasionally with one stage that is run once.

 

[twitcher]

It depends on the character of the roads. A mixed-surface event is the obvious solution, since Monte Carlo and Catalyuna are the only two on the calendar. That's why I keep coming back to Denver - a mix of tarmac, snow and gravel.

I agree Colorado somewhere would be ideal, I just don't see it flying (always the pessimist, I know )

Again looking at Google Maps, there are some roads in Colorado that look impassable for semi-trailers seeing as how they are full of twists and turns.

.
A logging truck is not like a regular 18 wheel highway rig. You would be amazed at the kind of roads they drive them on. 180' switchbacks are the norm.

That's the beauty of rallying - the roads aren't closed for long. They would be closed for all of six hours on one day, with a break in between since the standard format is three stages (sometimes four, depending on their total length), repeated twice over the course of one leg, and occasionally with one stage that is run once.

See to normal people like us, closing a road for 6 hours once a year is not really a big deal. I'm affraid we are a rare breed, compared to the average American (btw sorry for all the stereotyping and generalizing about Americans...I'm just going off of my experiences), or even the average yuppie Canadian, being inconvenienced by a closed road for more than 5 minutes is completely unacceptable....especially if it's just so some "dang foreigners can tear up the country side."


At Big White, my local ski hill, every winter, the local Subaru club organizes a winter driving experience, combined with a snow rally. The ski hill itself is in the middle of no where. The rally only uses a portion of the main Day Parking parking lot (there is a seperate parking lot for seasons pass holders), and then uses logging roads (on the weekend, and in winter while the ground is frozen, hence doesn't really get mangled). The only people who are effected are a small fraction of people who use the day parking. Yet, despite the Club's efforts to make as little impact as possible, there are constant complaints about the "obnoxious cars using up the parking lot", and the event is constantly under threat of being cancelled.

I just don't think we have to correct mindset here to accept rallying.

 

[RACECAR]

I definitely agree with this personally. What I was saying was that the average American is not aware of the discipline aspect of rallying. All they know about rallying is what they know from X-Games....and all they do there is push the "extreme extreme EXTREME!!!"

Because that isn't Rally, that's Rallycross (admittingly, not the established kind in Europe but that's it). The only reason for the Extreme theme is well, look at what hosts it. Considering this is an event owned by the very network that broadcasts it, naturally more americans are aware of it then the traditional style of Rally that the SCCA hosts (which gets nowhere near the amount of TV time).

 

[prisonermonkeys]

the traditional style of Rally that the SCCA hosts (which gets nowhere near the amount of TV time)

It's a problem worldwide.

 

[TheBook]

There's always the possibility of an event in Michigan. Sno*Drift is held in the northern parts of the Lower Peninsula and kicks off the Rally America season, and in that part of the state there are enough twisty gravel roads to where I'm sure a reasonable route could be taken. There also aren't any major cities there, but there are enough small towns that a base could be set up fairly close to the stage routes.

 

[Simmpa]

Glad this thread got much response, I personally voted for New Zealand as I would like to see how Paddon would perform against Ogier on home soil. Many have voted for a US rally but sadly I think It´s just as futile to make Americans get interested in Rally as to get them interested in Soccer (or fotball like most of the world calls it) any motorsport wich does not involve an oval track would not work, and it would also be hard with current boring tiny underpowered hatchbacks, even with the 2017 rules in mind 80bhp will not bring us back to the Group B era where the cars sounded like monsters.

So, my calendar would look like this:

1 - Monte Carlo
2 - Sweden
3 - United States
4 - Mexico
5 - Argentina
6 - Spain and Portugal
7 - Corsica
8 - Italy and Austria
9 - Germany
10 - Finland
11 - Poland
12 - China
13 - Japan
14 - Australia/New Zealand
15 - (TBA, tropical)
16 - South Africa
17 - Wales

Good luck trying to get 17 rounds. Maximum there been 16 and only for 4 years, unless WRC gets more popular than F1 It´s wishful thinking. I think Portugal should go as there is already a saturation of rallies in western Europe.

 

[Legro]

I don't really see any of the current manufacturers wanting to go to North America either. Citroën doesn't sell any cars there, and both Volkswagen and Hyundai do WRC with a car that isn't sold there.

Of course WRC event in North America wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing for any of them, although I'm not sure about Hyundai as they seem to want move from the former rugged image in that market and rallying doesn't exactly help them at that, it still wouldn't be the first place any of the manufacturers would like the series to go from the marketing point of view.