What defines the cars in GT?

[Exorcet]

I was skimming the "Standards in GT6" thread, and one of the points that seems to come up is quality vs quantity. First off, I know that I have unique views on many things related to GT, but I thought this could be a topic anyway.

I don't see how there can be a quality vs quantity discussion centered on graphics alone. What defines cars for me in a sim is the physics model. We could have near infinite polygon models of 10,000 different looking cars but there would be no variety if they all drove the same. It would literally be a one car game. Of course, not even GT1 made every car feel the same, but I think that PD has put far too much importance on graphics since the beginning.

My question to GTP is, what do you consider to be more important in defining the car in GT games? Is it the 3D model and appearance or the physics model and the driving characteristics?

I feel that there is much more importance to the physics than anything else, as the way the car behaves is for the most part what defines the car itself. The standards don't bother me in the slightest and I often fail to differentiate between standard and premium. However what does bother me are cars that butchered beyond recognition like the Speed 12, Saleen S7, and Viper ACR that are basically shells trying and failing to mimic the real cars.

 

[mikecustom]

Graphics, Physics, Sounds

It's not about the car, it's about the whole experience and you need all three of those balanced to make a sim that delivers. it's not like you can stay with PS1 graphics and have like ultimate physics, it won't feel right, the same goes for sounds, that's why GT5 felt so flawd, PS2 and PS3 graphics combined with PS1 sounds and wird glitchy physics (not sure, maybe PS2.5 physics?) You can't sacrifice graphics over physics, sounds over graphics and physics over both..

 

[MSTER232]

...

We don't need improvements on the 3D model, we need improvements on sound, slight improvements to physics and such.

 

[PletdeKoe]

Physics are the most important. That's why we'll never play shift2 again. However it isn't just a or b. The one thing GT has always done is give the feeling you are actually driving all these cars. It always drove very well and looked as good as it got for it's time.

With the whole standard vs premium situation it gets a little distorted. Physics are great for every car. Graphically GT is really putting you behind the wheel of a car when driving a premium model. Sometimes it is really incredibly photorealistic. At these moments the level of immersion is as good as it get these days.

At these times I really feel bad I can't get that level of immersion in a honda CRX or a Sauber C9. Simply because they are standards and will never give you that immersion. The black cockpits don'really help.

I like Gt5 a lot, but I think very often "if only...."

What defines Gt is its sence of immersion. Both vissualy and physically.

 

[analog]

I don't differentiate all aspects which combine the total experience on the basis of which is more important, as much as I think the physics are the core of any driving game the visuals can't be simply disgarded as playing second fiddle or only there as eye-candy (which seems to be a derogatory term used to dismiss it as being trivial but anything is basically trivial in a videogame), it just builds further upon that core to create another stage and which are consumed simultaneously.

To me, it's progression to find another layer which fundamentally changes the previous experience (cockpit view for me) and improved visuals add something really significant to the overall enjoyment which however would all be for nothing if the physics weren't up to par.
For me, what defines a car is as much about accurate physics as it is about accurate visual info these days which finally can be achieved with current gen tech.

I often find myself wondering how I managed to play previous GT-games without being inside the cockpit which isn't just about graphics but the position from which you control the car, something bumpercam never did for me (and I hardly used it).
And yes, the visuals or graphics in itself are important for me too, can't stand those black cut out cockpits on closed Standards.
And ofcourse the sounds are the icing on the cake (which isn't suggesting they're less important than the other 2 factors, as like I said they're consumed simultaneously).

 

[Jerwin]

Physics should be the priority if you're looking for a real driving simulator. Graphics are nice but do you really need to see the stitches on the dashboard of the Nissan GTR? Or is it nice to have cupholders on your virtual car? More emphasis should be put on sounds since GT already has nice graphics (minus the shadows).

 

[CorvetteConquer]

Together, GT's graphics, 3D models and physics engine have allowed GT to shine for quite some time.

Now, its sound department must catch up. And its A.I. department.

According to the credits, those two above areas have the fewest staff members.

 

[CTznOfTime]

Graphics, Physics, Sounds

It's not about the car, it's about the whole experience and you need all three of those balanced to make a sim that delivers. it's not like you can stay with PS1 graphics and have like ultimate physics, it won't feel right, the same goes for sounds, that's why GT5 felt so flawd, PS2 and PS3 graphics combined with PS1 sounds and wird glitchy physics (not sure, maybe PS2.5 physics?) You can't sacrifice graphics over physics, sounds over graphics and physics over both..

Physics, then Graphics, then Sounds

In that Order...


I am not sure what you are trying to say there...

but for me the most important thing, and just like OP said,
the esthetic of "Standard" (PS2) polygons among "Premium" (PS3) models does not bother me much.

As long as the each car behaves differently and as closely to real life as possible, then i am sold. It's more important for the player to feel the real physics and engine.

Then once that is nailed down,
I am a visual person, and so Graphics is important. Duh.

Sound is just as equally important... but since i usually tune and change my exhaust... the tend to sound all the same using the same upgrade lol

We don't need improvements on the 3D model, we need improvements on sound, slight improvements to physics and such.

We need continuous improvements on physics, better L7 sounds,
and of course, convert all the Standard cars into Premium models

then i will be a happy GT6 gamer.

 

[Exorcet]

Physics are the most important. That's why we'll never play shift2 again. However it isn't just a or b.

I'm not trying to get people to pick between extremes. Maybe I should have been more clear. It's not photorealistic graphics + Burnout physics vs wire frame models + F1 simulator physics.

One other way to look at the question might be if PD should be making premium cars at their current level of detail at all. A lot of pre release updates for GT say how long it takes to model a car. This to me only barely qualifies as information. The time it takes to make a 3D model is also horribly long. They never really say anything about the physics or how the car's behavior is modeled. Another thing is, when asked about the power of a new system, I believe that Kaz said something about polygons. That's the last thing I'd focus on when it comes to a new system. At this point I think the models can go without ever being upgraded again.

If I were PD, I'd probably comment on how long it took to get the physics model up and running and whatever intricacies it contained. Of course, at the same time I realize that people really do like the premium cars and they probably account for some percentage of sales.

Hopefully that makes things clearer. I don't want PD to pick one or the other, but I do want physics to be higher on the list of priorities. Much higher. Instead of spamming "The Real Driving Simulator" we should get a trailer or two that's nothing but tire physics and how great they are [in GT6].

 

[Vinal]

Physics for driving, Graphics for perception, you'll never have the perception of real world driving but it's as close as can be IMO. Both are good now but there's always room for improvement.

 

[1241Penguin]

Physics > Sound > Graphics

Start off with making sure the next GT game will actually be a "simulator;" fix all the current bugs and problems we currently see with GT5's physics engine. Then move onto sound, though it's likely never going to happen given GT's history with their "engine" sounds.

According to some GTP user, the car models currently used in GT5 are made for a much later game, only downscaled (or something). That way, PD won't have to model each car over and over again for each iteration of GT.

 

[mikecustom]

Physics, then Graphics, then Sounds

In that Order...


I am not sure what you are trying to say there...

but for me the most important thing, and just like OP said,
the esthetic of "Standard" (PS2) polygons among "Premium" (PS3) models does not bother me much.

As long as the each car behaves differently and as closely to real life as possible, then i am sold. It's more important for the player to feel the real physics and engine.

Then once that is nailed down,
I am a visual person, and so Graphics is important. Duh.

Sound is just as equally important... but since i usually tune and change my exhaust... the tend to sound all the same using the same upgrade lol





We need continuous improvements on physics, better L7 sounds,
and of course, convert all the Standard cars into Premium models

then i will be a happy GT6 gamer.

I wasn't putting those in any order, if so, i would put them in the order you put them, I was trying to say that while Physics are very important, things need to be on par, We have the models, premium models, but phyics are on par at times and sometimes they're not and sound seriously needs to catch up.

I wouldn't mind to have the current graphics in GT6, the technical part cuz the gameplay design needs some work, for GT6 the physics will most likely be improved, so no worries there, sounds are the one thing that MUST be up to graphics and physics, or the whole experience will be ruined, you see?, you need all 3 of them done right