What Is The Best FF, FR, MR? Race + Review = Your Vote

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Kent

Retired
Staff Emeritus
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GTP_Kent
:cheers:___Welcome!___:cheers:

For FF, FR, and MR cars, see the specifications below!


The Idea
Race and Review any "FF" "FR" or "MR" in the game (tuning within specs listed below).
A link to each review will be posted in post #2.

The Goal:
To find out which car is the best of each drivetrain format in GT4.

The Race:
  • Any Track
  • Any GT Mode Race (including Practice "hotlaps")
  • Any Front Engine / Front Wheel Drive Car
  • Class Specific Tuning And Tire Rules Must Be Followed
  • No Nitrous Oxide Mods
  • Tuning other than tires, power, and weight for all classes is "Open" with no limitations.
    (Meaning that full custom race parts are allowed as well as "Wings" aka "Spoilers.")

The Front Engine / Front Wheel Drive Race and Review Categories

3 Classes Of Cars
  • 200
  • 280
  • Unlimited

200 Class
  • Any "S" Tire Combo (Front and Rear)
  • Power Must Not Exceed 209 HP On Settings Display
  • The Power To Weight Ratio Must Not go below 4.500

280 Class
  • Any "S" Tire Combo (Front and Rear)
  • Power Must Not Exceed 289 HP On Settings Display
  • The Power To Weight Ratio Must Not go below 3.500

Unlimited Class
  • Any Tires
  • Any HP
  • Any Weight
  • Any PWR


The Front Engine / Rear Wheel Drive Race and Review Categories


3 Classes Of Cars
  • 300
  • 400
  • Unlimited

300 Class
  • Any "S" Tire Combo (Front and Rear)
  • Power Must Not Exceed 309 HP On Settings Display
  • The Power To Weight Ratio Must Not go below 4.000

400 Class
  • Any "S" Tire Combo (Front and Rear)
  • Power Must Not Exceed 409 HP On Settings Display
  • The Power To Weight Ratio Must Not go below 3.000

Unlimited Class
  • Any Tires
  • Any HP
  • Any Weight
  • Any PWR


The Mid Engine / Rear Wheel Drive Race and Review Categories


3 Classes Of Cars
  • 300
  • 400
  • Unlimited

300 Class
  • Any "S" Tire Combo (Front and Rear)
  • Power Must Not Exceed 309 HP On Settings Display
  • The Power To Weight Ratio Must Not go below 4.000

400 Class
  • Any "S" Tire Combo (Front and Rear)
  • Power Must Not Exceed 409 HP On Settings Display
  • The Power To Weight Ratio Must Not go below 3.000

Unlimited Class
  • Any Tires
  • Any HP
  • Any Weight
  • Any PWR

____________________________________
  • Post all submissions in this thread.
  • Post replays or pictures if you wish.
  • Please include Driver Name, Track Used, Race Used, Car Name, Class, HP, KG, and PWR with each review.

Ask questions if you have any.
Have fun racing. :cheers:
 
200 Class
Deep Forest (Normal) - Hotlap (GT Mode Practice)
'98 Civic Type R - 205hp/924kg - 4.502pwr

Best Lap: 1'29.937


The Build:
First I purchased the Civic in the Used Lot. Not very expensive or impressive at first glance, this Civic barely managed to draw my attention away from late model Hondas like the DC2 Integra. However, my interest in building a light weight 200 hp car took priority for the time being.

The basic idea for tuning this car was to get as close to race specs with full custom parts without breaking the bank.

Knowing the power output was limited to only 200hp, I decided it would be most important to increase low-end and mid-range power.

The Parts:
Oil Change
Sports Soft Tires (S3)
Sports Exhaust
Port & Polish
Engine Balancing
Displacement Up
Stage 3 Weight Reduction
Original Suspension
Full Custom Transmission
Twin Plate Clutch
Semi-Racing Flywheel

I avoided using a Spoiler because it looked horrible. :yuck:
The handling could be adjusted using the suspension and the added downforce would slow me down on the straights so there was no reason for a spoiler on this ride.

Initial Testing:
After setting all Driving Aids to 0, I made the first test runs. Suprisingly the Civic did not understeer much and after about 10 laps I was cruising on a best lap of 1'31.???

At this point the suspension was a bit too hard up front and the transmission wasn't getting into sixth gear for long on the opening straight.

Tuning:
With a best lap recorded on the stock suspension and transmission I began adjusting the settings.
Original Suspension:
4.9/4.2 Springs
93/93 Ride Height
8/8 Shock Absorbers
2.0/1.0 Camber
0/0 Toe
4/4 Stabilizers

These settings were very close to the default settings. Only the springs and ride height were adjusted. After several laps of testing with various changes in the suspension, I felt the understeer disappear and the infamous snap-oversteer never developed.

This Civic was perfectly balanced making each turn a test of driver skill to avoid understeer by using the throttle to change the handling's characteristics.

The fully custimizable transmission was the last part to be adjusted. To actually adjust the setting I touched nothing but the Final Drive Ratio. Moving from the default position to 5.000 worked perfectly.

After moving to the 5.000 Final Drive Ratio I was pulling harder in 3rd, 4th, and 5th, with no loss of speed or power in 6th.

The Results:
The "Ek" Civic did an excellent job in all aspects of tackling Deep Forest.
With more time to work on the finer points of the suspension this car could actually be the Fastest 200 Class car.
There is no doubt in my mind that Polyphony Digital had the possibility of a 200hp Civic race in mind when the design of this car was cemented in GT4.

My Final Opinion:
👍 👍
The Civic was definately worth buying and tuning just to run it for a reminder of how good a Front Wheel Driver can be.

If nothing else, this car's superior handling and power delivery served as a perfect reminder of why GT4's physics are a step up from that of GT3.

The Classic Front-engine/ Front-wheel-drive understeer was non-existant after moderately low levels of adjustment to only a few suspension settings.

I just wish I had photo transfer abilities to show how awesome the civic was. :ouch:

If I was to rate this car on a 10-point scale using "A, B, C, D, F"...
87% to 92% out of 100

Edit:
I plan on testing this in the 280 class soon. :dopey:
 
280 Class
TRD Celica @ Nurburgring (GT Mode Hotlap)

7'39.312

284 hp/ 1003 kg/ 3.530 pwr

Celica Parts and Settings for The Ring (Link)


Initial Impressions:
Driving the Celica in stock form is nothing like driving the modified Celica used for this review.
Stock was "slow" and suffered from great understeer at every turn.
Nothign stood out about the Celica as a great car until after the Tuning began.

Modified Testing:
This was where the Celica showed it's value.
Running less than 285hp, the Ring lap time should speak volumes for this car.
However, to elaborate...
The lap was produced quickly and I am sure low 7'30s is possible in this exact setup.

The handling characteristics of this car were as unique as the name on the license plate.

Oversteer was a major problem on low-speed turning.
At higher speeds there was very little understeer on corner exits.
However, on corner entry, the braking-oversteer was bad enough to warrant settings changes to the brake balancer (although my driving style did not necessitate that change).

The Grip of the Celica was highly suprising especially considering the low camber and lack of racing tires.
Under the proper conditions this car may actually be one of the best FF cars in the game.

Oversteer is a concern worthy of noting...
If you adjust the settings to counter-act the low speed oversteer, the high speed understeer will become more evident, impairing the car's overall potential.

Boasting a 3.5 power-to-weight ratio, this car is tuned to what I consider the highest level possible without using Racing Tires.

With Sports tires, the 284 HP was a handful. Corner exits in 2nd gear must be carefully executed or wheelspin will become a factor (which will tax lap times greatly).

Post Lap Impressions:
The Celica is an excellent car.
Probably one of the best FF cars to modify beyond 200hp.

Oversteer in low gears and at low speeds was a problem that tuning may be able to cure. This also applies to the wheel spin created below 3rd gear.

However, with proper driving technique both the wheel spin and oversteer can be combated without changing the settings to levels capable of killing the overall nuetral handling feel at moderate speeds in gears above 2nd.

Snapping Oversteer is a problem for this car if the brake balancer is left at default settings or if the driver is not willing to adjust their driving to the car's handling characteristics.
That said, the braking is steady and very efficient... Once you learn the car or adjust the brake balance the "snapping oversteer" may actually help lap times.

This car is certainly one of the more difficult FF cars to handle but it is also one of the more rewarding FF cars to drive properly.

Learn to drive according to the car's limits and you will have a really great FF- plain and simple.
Trying driving it as if there is no difference between this car and any other in the game will only lead to negative impressions and poor results.

My Overall Rating:

87-92% (out of 100)
The TRD Celica is a winner in my book. 👍 👍


With low speed oversteer that can be a killer, this car provides a challenge to any driver attempting to tame the beast (so to speak).

The moderate and high speed handling of this car is great.
Braking was powerful despite the possibility of snapping oversteer.

It is a great pleasure to find a car that provide such a challenge to drive.
Suprisingly, oversteer was the biggest problem for this car on both braking and acceleration.

However, that oversteer also translated into great potential for the track.

Exploiting that potential is up to the driver and settings alone will not tame the Celica.

With the proper driving technique and sound tuning practices this car is one of the best (IMO).

Btw, the TRD Celica looks great too (even with a spoiler). :cheers:
 
Nice, did you use the stock SS's or the SM's? I remember this car as a bit of a hooligan, sort of like a Focus RS, only in a nicer wrapper and with less speed as stock. Of course, when you tune a Focus RS for power, wheelspin becomes quite a problem. 👍

I've been meaning to post in this thread, been interested since you started, but I'm not up and running my PS2 yet (have been away from it a while)... will start posting when I do. :D
 
280 Class

7'44.301 - Nurburgring Hotlap


Specs
286 hp
1029 kg
3.598 pwr

Parts and Settings Can be found here (link)

Initial Testing:
The Integra has a reputation to hold up in my eyes.
I was even prepared to accept that the Integra could be the best FF in the game.
Suprisingly, the Integra was a huge let down.
Only a few quick attempts at lapping the Integra gave me all the information I needed to get a setup started.

After tuning to the parts listed above in the link, I found that an "All Motor" approach was my prefference.
However, a 289hp version of the DC5 can be created using the Turbo (I am not sure about how that could affect this review).

The Real Testing Begins And A Myth Is Ended...
After lapping, adjusting, lapping, adjusting, and repeating the process, I finally found settings that felt "good."

First off, the Integra's grip was amazing on acceleration.
I expected to see something similar to the Celica, but instead I was presented with a car that only broke traction when 2nd gear was carelessly used or when a bump put third gear in the smoke.

Unfortunately, that amazing grip on acceleration was probably the reason for the Integra's consistant light understeer.
That slight understeer definately made for a controllable ride but not a "fast" ride.

Acceleration itself was better than I expected (due to my experience with the Integra Touring Car).
The rev range was much higher than the tach indincated and the pull during the final part of the rev range was better than average.

However, that power did not translate to oversteer. Instead, corner exits were always filled with minor understeer and handling on corner entry was dependant on the brake balancer setting.
With stock brake balancer settings, the braking behavior of the car was actually very good.

When I began, I expected to find the Integra's rear-end swing out in a snapping fashion similar to other FF cars in this league.
However, the rear-end was in-line at all times and even on hard braking through tight sections there was little to no "stepping-out" for the rear-end.

This contributed, just like the corner exit understeer, to a very well behaved, predictable and consistant ride. 👍

Oddly, the problem for the Integra lies within these positive aspects.

The Integra was just TOO WELL BEHAVED.

For an amatuer driver this car would be the perfect FF to learn with... Powerful, consistant, and handling capable of meeting the demands of any track.

However, for a more experienced driver the Integra felt tame and un-inspired. The handling characteristics were so consistantly plagued by "slight" understeer that veteran drivers may want to adjust the settings with more extremes (although I advice against using "extremes" in any settings for any car).

Final Opinion and Rating:
84-86% (out of 100%)

While the great parts of this car's character were in the balanced braking and excellent grip under acceleration, the negative aspects of this car's handling were the consistantly bland handling characteristics and the lack of oversteer under power.

My final impression of this car in this tuning form is simple...
The DC5 Integra is meant for "bigger" things.
Testing in the unlimited class should be done.


The 280 class does not give the Integra a fair shake.
With so much potential for more power, I believe the DC5 is capable of being a top contender in the Unlimited class, but in the 280 class it just falls behind its always present rival- the Celica.

Now I'm headed off to see what the DC2 can do! :mischievous:
I'm willing to bet it does better than the DC5. :eek:
 
OK heres one for the 200 class

Its basedon the Renault Clio 2.0 16V report I did for BESTuners here

Clio Report and settings

The car was fitted with the following mods

Semi race Exhaust
Oil chnage
Racing Chip
Port Polish
Engine Balance
Racing Brakes
Brake Balance Controller
Fully Custom Transmission
Triple Plate Clutch
Racing Flywheel
1-way LSD
Weight Reduction Stage 2
S3 Tyres
Racing Suspension

The result is as follows

209bhp
PTW 4.511

The settings used were the same as for my BESTuners report with the exception of the Gearbox, I reduced the Auto to 8 to account for the power difference.

The resulting lap time was - 1'31.611 @ Deep Forest

I actually think the car is capable of a much better time than this in the right hands (i.e. not mine)

Any and all comments and feedback appreciated.

BTW this will not be my last for the 200 class, it excellent fun working to a tight performance limit.

Regards

Scaff
 
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Class 200
'03 Toyota Prius G Touring Selection (J)
Hong Kong (Normal) Best Lap--1'48.274

STOCK 75hp/1173kg TUNED 143hp/1096kg

Initial Impressions
Bought the car for Cr:25,700, the car stock is obviouly known as a hybrid, but it one car that seems to have potential. Testing the handling and such at the Gymkana(whatever you call it) was very straight forward, acceleration and braking could be improved, and HP is something to take into consideration. For the handling part the car seems to under steer in stock form.

Parts:
Exhaust Racing: 80---85hp
Racing Brakes
Na tuning Stage 3: 85hp---123hp
port polish: 123hp---127hp
engine balancing: 127hp---131hp
racing chip: 131hp---137hp
suspension racing
transmission close
clutch sports
flywheel racing
limited slip full
racing tires medium (r3)
stage 1 (weight reduction)----1173kg
stage 2 ----------------------1135kg
stage 3 ----------------------1096kg
Increase Rigidity
Oil Change

Tune-Up
---------------Ride Height-----------------------

Front------------------------------Rear
96mm------------------------------108mm
--------------Camber Angle----------------------
2.9----------------------------------2.2

TCS---0

Testing:
First Lap Time 1'57.130
Stepping on the gas wasnt as impressive as doing a civic, but taking in mind that it was a hybrid, this prius went very well, taking first corner did not need the easing off the gas nor braking, handling was very sharp and Mini Cooper Like, taking the straight wasnt pleasent thought the duration on acceleration was very high, but at a high rate of speed cornering was very slim, this car could be pushed throught a corner, the feeling of the car understeering is very low but you really know its there only when the car is pushed throught a corner. Then taking the straight before going under a Highway elevation, the car starts to Redline in 5TH gear at about 89-92 mph, this was dissapointing since if i were to be in another track the redline would haunt the driver for miles. Thought throught the track of Hong Kong the car showed its best on sharp turns.

Lap Two Time 1'48.274
By now we ave a high rate of speed going through first corner, handling is starting to show its bad side by showing alot of understerring after severe braking, thought when not accelerating the handling seems to get better, which is a technique some must get used to. The when reaching a long strecht of a turn the car doesnt seem like it need to brake when entering, but even when braking the car is loosing much accelaration when turning at an angle for about 2-4 seconds.

Final Judgment:
The Car seems great, with the handling that could surprise others, but it still shows that hybrid arent best, a very cool front wheel drive car that has what other high powered ones cant, but it still isnt what we want a good handling, high powered front wheel drive car. So look elsewhere Like a Mini Cooper because this Prius Makes you spend credits on things that arent worth it:grumpy: .
 
I'll have to try that prius. Looks like fun. I think the Clio that Scaff tested is one of my favorites though. Good pics too.
 
Before anyone slates the hybrids too much, can I just say that they're ideal cars for obtaining 200 A-spec points in stock form at the Sunday Cup?
I know it's really easy to cheat this in the Dodge Ram, but try the High Speed Ring race in the used Toyota Prius '01(?) (without oil change) and I'm sure even some of the less quick racers amongst you will find the Prius is an easy 200pt gainer! Just don't despair as the rest of the field leaves you for dead at the start, the horrific PWR of the Prius due to the weight of the electric motor & batteries is offset by the AI's inability to take the middle bends at anything like maximum speed, and you'll soon catch up! Similarly the Prius you can buy new from the dealer is a good 200pt gainer without any tuning because of it's very poor PWR ratio.
 
@Nissan~GuruZ33 way to go, I would never have thought of doing the Prius, what an excellent and interesting choice. I may even have to try it myslef now.

V cool idea.


identti
I think the Clio that Scaff tested is one of my favorites though. Good pics too.

Thanks for the comments (and glad you liked the pics), the Clio is one of my favorite FWD cars in the game. I'm torn between it and my DC2 Integra.

I'm going to have to get some more of these done, 👍 for starting this thread Kent.

Regards

Scaff
 
Unlimited Class
Honda Integra Type R (DC5)

7'16.062 Nurburgring Nordshleife Hotlap

Specs:

327 hp
1029 kg
3.151 pwr

Settings can be found here

Parts

"All Motor" NA Stage 3 Modification
All Power Modifications and Weight Reductions.
Full Custom Race Equipment On All Suspension and Drivetrain Parts.
Racing Hard (R2) Tires.
(Rigidity Increase was NOT used)

Initial Impressions:
Thanks to my previous review of the DC5 in the 280 class I was not expecting much from this car.
Consistant understeer, lacking power, exceptional grip on acceleration, stable braking, etc etc...
My previous review can be found here

However, to my suprise the DC5 Integra felt like a winner. Not some over-powered, over-kill, easy target killer, but a real winner.

Instantly my opinion of the DC5 was changed and in that I've found a new favorite.
It seems my guess about the Integra from the 280 class was dead-on, this car is meant for bigger things than a 280 hp - S tire shootout. :eek:
So why the change of heart?

The Testing Begins and A Phoenix Rises...
Yes, yes, indeed the Integra amazed me- but why?

Well, first take the time to consider my previous opinion of the Integra (crashing and burning is a good way to describe that story). :P

However, relative to that, this car managed to rise above and beyond my expectations without even the slightest bit of effort.
Yes, that's right, the Integra lapped the Ring effortlessly. 👍

All of the handling, power delivery, and braking characteristics were changed (despite being on the same settings as the 280 class entry).

Power delivery was the first notice-able change.
The Integra, even on racing tires, managed to break traction consitantly at the throughout second gear (when using full throttle).
This new-found loss of traction contributed greatly to initial oversteer.

Turning throughout the mid-range of any gear was also positively changed by the new power of the Integra. Understeer during mid-range turning was reduced dramatically (although proper FF driving techniques must still be observed).

Braking was also changed in this new iteration of the Integra. Turn-in was actually border-line instable. :drools:
This is partly due to new tires and the fact that higher speeds create higher downforce.
However, that's just part of the deal.
With that in mind, the Integra was still stable but the actual turn-in began to take on the "snap" oversteer characteristic common in other highly tuned FF cars. This was a great "helping hand" when lapping the Ring.

The actual power delivery in the high end of the RPM range was also greatly changed.
Where it was once an under-whelming experience to run redline and shift, it was now obvious that 300 hp was being produced, especially in the high end. That same 300+ was also much more potent because of the new tires and suprisingly, the new confidence inspired by the overall change in the car's feel.

Even more suprising was the peak in power throughout the final 1000rpm of the rev range. Previously the engine sounded like a race car in this area but acted like a barely tuned street car... Suprisingly, the extra 40 horsepower made an incredible difference.
The amazing "race" sound of this car was no matched by steady pull that lasted well beyond the initial redline.
Plainly stated: This car was now ready to race and finally felt like it had the power to do so.
The Integra was definately reborn in my eyes.

Post Race Impressions:
This is where my thoughts are confused... Was I mistaken in my assessment?
Did the Integra prove itself to be such a powerful force on the track that I was turned to a "believer"?
Or was the pain of my previous experience still fresh enough that a slight change for the better felt like a world of difference?
Did I make a mountain out of a mole hill? (in a good way) :sly:

When I take the time to be calm and reasonable it is clear to me that the Integra is actually a great racer (even with the FF format holding it back).

The street car DC5 seems to have great potential and fufilling that potential is much easier than with the touring car DC5.
Handling was "dreamy" and problems from the 280 class iteration were close to non-existant.
Power was in great supply and even though the torque of the NA tune was present, the car never felt over powered (even in the low-end where torque can help or hurt the most).

Overall:
This was the Integra I hoped for when I bought the car new from the dealer.
Contradicting my opinions formed during the 280 class testing, this Integra was powerful, balanced, handled well, and most importantly- stradled the line between "behaved" and "wild."

My grade for the Integra DC5 in a fully modified NA tune using racing tires...
90-95% out of 100


What else can I say?
The Integra DC5 was awesome and only a great set of blurry photos could show just how great this new generation of a famous FF really is.

Btw, my next FF review will be on the '95 Civic EG SiR :mischievous:
(also, thanks scaff :cheers: )
 
200 Class

Honda Civic SiR-II (EG) '95

1'30.136 - Deep Forest (normal)


The Specs
200 hp
915 kg
4.577 pwr

The Parts

Full Custom Race Transmission
Semi Racing Flywheel
Twin Plate Clutch
Brake Balancer
Sports Soft Tires (S3)
Sports Exhaust
Engine Balancing
Port and Polish
Displacement Up
Weight Reduction Stage 3
*Original Suspension

The Settings

A Car We See Everyday
I'll keep this review small- just like the Civic.
Basically, I had no idea on what to expect with this car. The "EG" Civic has been a good car in past GT games so I thought it might be good for the 200 class.

The Hotlap
Awesome engine tuning. :dopey:
I could leave it at that and be happy with the review.
For the sake of being a little more descriptive, the settings worked well for a controlled level of understeer.
Turn-in on braking wasn't great but adjusting the limited slip diff took care of that.

The handling did well with a tiny bit of oversteer when letting off the gas. However, the understeer was present at all times...
Oddly, the Civic felt amazingly well balanced.

Power wasn't overwhelming but the engine sounded great and had a great steady pull through the entire rev range.

Summation
This Civic was awesome. 👍👍
88% to 93% out of 100
Comparing this car to the other Hondas I've reviewed, this Civic was the most fun to drive.

I strongly suggest this car.
There are some qualities about the "EG" that you've got to experience for yourself. :cheers:
 
Nice work Kent, between all the cars to try here and in BESTuners I'm running out of time. LOL

Going to have to get selective, the EG does look tempting however.

Regards

Scaff
 
Scaff
Nice work Kent, between all the cars to try here and in BESTuners I'm running out of time. LOL

Going to have to get selective, the EG does look tempting however.

Regards

Scaff

Well since I know your work to some extent and I can see what's up (having so much to do with this stuff).

I'm telling you now that if you would like, you may use links to your BESTuners work and put them in here (when appropriate).

So if you want to review a FF for best tuners feel free to link it to this thread and I will link that in the first post. 👍

(btw, scaff, check your private messages ;) )
 
OK

I've got three to start the ball rolling, all linked from BESTuners

All unlimited class and run at Deep Forest

Ginetta G4 - PWR 1.913 - 1'20.613 (R3 tyres)

Caterham Fireblade - PWR 1.471 - 1'16.339 (R5 tyres)

TVR Cerbera Speed 12 - PWR 0.917 - 1'08.321 (R5 tyres)

Just click on the link for the full spec, set-up, pictures and write-up on the car, and may I strongly recomend the Caterham, one of my favorite set-up I've ever done.

All three of these set-up will work fine on any tyre type (yes even the Speed 12 if you're brave enough - I like running it on N2's - now that's a challenge).

Regards

Scaff
 

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