What is the oldest engine in production today? Now With New Stuff!

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Tornado

Tornado

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The discussion of the Chevrolet Vega project car made me wonder: Now that the Chevy Small-Block V8, the Cologne V6, the AMC Straight 6, the Buick 3800/Rover V8 and the Ford Windsor are all out or going out of production, is the much maligned and unloved GM 4.3L V6 the oldest engine still in production today?

The engine design dates back to the 1950s, being based on the original Chevy Small Block. The only competition I can think of for it is the Chrysler LA engine, currently more or less used in the Dodge Viper, which also dates to the 50s. Maybe the Bentley 6.75 V8, but I don't know enough about it to tell. Is there some random British car using an ancient inline 4 (probably a Morgan) or something, or is one of these engines actually the owner of this meaningless and arguably detracting title?
 
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This is a great topic. I wonder this myself from time to time.

One thing to remember about the 4.3-liter V6 is that while it might be in some small part based on the old small block, it wasn't actually used until the 1985 in its current application, which has a different power output, displacement, and even number of cylinders. This as the Bentley 6.75-liter V8 seems mostly unchanged.

The Morgan Plus 8 used the same Rover V8 from 1968 until it was cancelled in 2003 in favor of the Morgan Roadster, which uses the engine from the Ford Fusion (220hp 3.0-liter V6). That wouldn't beat the 1950s design of either the 4.3-liter GM V6 or the 6.75-liter Bentley V8.

Regarding the Morgan 4/4, it's had many engine updates over the years and has used many manufacturer's engines. To my knowledge, its newest engine was in 2004. Thus, it can't be the oldest.

I think, then, that the answer to the question is the Rolls-Royce/Bentley V8. That engine began as a 6.25-liter V8 in 1959 with the Rolls-Royce Silver Cloud II (and the Bentley S2) and has received only updates - never changes - since that time. In 1970 it became the 6.75-liter V8 that is, to this day, powering every Bentley except the Camry-based ones.
 
A quick Google search brought this thread up as the top hit. That's not going to be too useful.

I wouldn't overlook cars that are produced outside of the US/Japan/Europe. India is probably putting out some pretty antiquated engines.

And of course, there are ship and airplane engines, but I don't know it those apply here.
 
The Ford 'Kent' engine has also been in constant use since 1959, and is currently still powering the Ford Ka.
 
TheCracker
The Ford 'Kent' engine has also been in constant use since 1959, and is currently still powering the Ford Ka.
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Mostly true - the same block design is still in use, but the heads are different.
 
FYI the GM 4.3L block is literally the 5.7L block minus two cylinders, it was a cheap way for GM to develop a larger displacemnt V6. While the SBC 350 may be dead its younger 6cyl version is still alve (albeit unfortunately).

I'm going to guess that the 6.75L V8 from Rolls Royce/Bentley is the oldest engine platform in use today.
 
Given that the small-block is far from dead, and shows no signs of leaving us any time soon, it is likely the best candidate for oldest overall design. While certainly we are do for a generation change here at the close of the decade, the overall design will largely be based on the same one that originated in 1955, and furthermore, spun off far too many variants to count.

As for that old 4.3L V6? I think that may actually be on the outs now, but as soon as you think that, GM comes out with some new variant that keeps on chugging. My belief is that it may be replaced by an altered version of the 3.6L V6 found in everything from the Chevrolet Malibu and Saturn Outlook to the Cadillac CTS and STS. There have been rumors of 4.0L unit based on the same design, paired with DIG, that could produce 350-ish BHP, but nothing has come of it that I know of...

So yeah, small-block Chevy it is. Then again, that all depends on how you're counting it...
 
The current 4.8L, 5.3L, 6.0L and 6.2L versions all use the same basic design. Out of all of those engines, the 4.8L, I believe is the oldest, but I may be mistaken.
 
4.8 roughly equals 283?

The French were still building Flatheads for military trucks in the eighties.

Did GM make at least one inline 6 model throughout the 20th century? If so, the new 4.2 may be a competitor.

I'll pull for a loophole, but Mr. Goodwrench is still selling Pre-86 configured Smallblocks. So, they have to be in production somewhere.. Right?
 
YSSMAN
The current 4.8L, 5.3L, 6.0L and 6.2L versions all use the same basic design. Out of all of those engines, the 4.8L, I believe is the oldest, but I may be mistaken.
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If they were simply modeled after old engines, it doesn't count. We're going for engines that share components, pariticularly a majority of components.
 
YSSMAN
Given that the small-block is far from dead, and shows no signs of leaving us any time soon, it is likely the best candidate for oldest overall design.
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The current small block shares precisely 0 parts, tooling, dimensions or anything at all with the old small block that the 4.3L V6 is pretty much identical too.
 
Toronado
The current small block shares precisely 0 parts, tooling, dimensions or anything at all with the old small block that the 4.3L V6 is pretty much identical too.
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Yes, then I do better understand what you had meant then. The designs are certainly similar, and even recognizable to some point to people like my father who were trained on the "classic" small-blocks, but definitely very different.

Question:

Do we count the small-blocks that are still produced by GM sans-car? They still build thousands of "classic" V8s of exactly the same design, notably the 350 and 427 now made available. If we are to include these factory-build engines, Ford would presumably be doing quite well considering that they still build the same 302 from ages ago...
 
The Australian Falcon is still using a 6 cylinder which originally dates back from the 1950's, it has been changed many times of the years but the block still shares some of the castings from the originals.
 
Wankel: Nope. 13B died (In the U.S at least) in 1995, IIRC, and the RENESIS is a completely different monster.

John Deere? That counts as a tractor engine, so it doesn't count. :P
 
Rotary Junkie
Wankel: Nope. 13B died (In the U.S at least) in 1995, IIRC, and the RENESIS is a completely different monster.

John Deere? That counts as a tractor engine, so it doesn't count. :P
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The original question was what was the oldest production engine.
No qualifier as to what it powered.:sly:

I would say that the V-Twin Harley Davidson engine is one of the oldest designs still extant. The heads have changed over the years, but I believe the "block" is still the same.

Another design that I'm not sure of, is the flat-6 from Porsche.
It has grown in displacement. But the basic engine design has been around since before WWII.

And yes, the basic deisel tractor engine, or perhaps the "donkey engine" that is used to power ski-lifts is the oldest engine design extant.

Good question, and thread BTW.👍
 
neanderthal
i believe enfield motorcycles are still being made in india with engines dating from WW2
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I basically came here to say this. The 350cc Enfield Bullet was first introduced in 1949, and since then they've been made non-stop with only minor modifications - the plant in India just never stopped churning them out. I'm fairly certain that there have been practically no changes to the engine design in that time, which makes it 58 years old. :scared:
 
Actually, wouldn't the steam engine be the oldest? They still use steam-driven turbines in power plants and stuff.
 
Toronado
The current small block shares precisely 0 parts, tooling, dimensions or anything at all with the old small block that the 4.3L V6 is pretty much identical too.
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Quoted for truth.

VIPERGTSR01
The Australian Falcon is still using a 6 cylinder which originally dates back from the 1950's, it has been changed many times of the years but the block still shares some of the castings from the originals.
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But that's just the block, the 4.3L shares the basic block along with the exhaust manifold and intake manifold (to my knowledge) with the older ones. I could be wrong...
 
Gil
Another design that I'm not sure of, is the flat-6 from Porsche.
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I do believe that the pre-WWII engine used in the 356 was dumped when they switched to the 911. Which was in turn dumped when they went from 993 to 996.
VIPERGTSR01
The Australian Falcon is still using a 6 cylinder which originally dates back from the 1950's, it has been changed many times of the years but the block still shares some of the castings from the originals.
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I'm actually confused by this engine. If anyone has more info, tell me, because the Wikipedia page simply confused me more.
Gil
I would say that the V-Twin Harley Davidson engine is one of the oldest designs still extant. The heads have changed over the years, but I believe the "block" is still the same.
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And this one too, please.

So, another question: The Dodge Viper engine is obviously dramatically changed from the circa-1955 Chrysler "A" small block. But I believe they are close enough in design to still share tooling (though the head design is different). So should the Viper engine be discounted, leaving the slugging match between the Chevy 4300 and Bentley 6.75?
 
gibson
how about the 49cc from a peel 50? its been around for ages, unchanced, its a moped motor!
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Briggs & Stratton Lawnmower engines have been around pretty much unchanged for years. And have been pirated for go-carts from about 10 seconds after the mower was put pack in ght garage for the winter.:lol:


And Tornado, What about the basic tractor engine and the "donkey" engine I mentioned in the earlier post?
I don't know much about tractors, but I'm pretty sure the "donkey" engine has been around just short of forever.... It's been used to haul logs out of the forest around the turn of the century (the last one, not the current one), it's been used to haul heavy equipment up hills, and it's currenly the power for most ski-lifts, and those scary-ass hanging tram thingies.
 
The Australian Ford Inline 6 (250ci) in its early version remained in production untill 1988, whilst it shares certian features with the next version (4.1) and then 4.0 and then finally 3.9l so i guess you could say its fairly old. I've got a book on it somewhere i'll try dig out
 
How about the old VW boxer engine, used in Type 1, 2, 3 and 4. If I'm not mistaken they still build the old Volks Bus down in Brazil. The site states that it has a watercooled 80 hp 1.4 flexi-fuel, so I'm not sure, but the watercooling was a very recent (2-3 years ago) addition.
 

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