What is your idea of a driver's car?

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Beeblebrox237

Beeblebrox237

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The concept of a "driver's car" is surprisingly subjective. Different people think of driver's cars as meeting different requirements. What does your ideal driver's car entail?

@Omnis @McLaren @Keef You three have strong opinions on this...

Code: 
Please excuse the abrupt start to this thread. The following exchange was cut and pasted from another thread.

Please begin any discussion starting from post #24 and on.
 
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Omnis
Motor Trend seems to have an enormous hard-on for these Camaros. They named the Z28 the driver's car of the year. Absolutely ridiculous.
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In fairness, the Z/28 was a lot closer to a "Driver's Car" (no tech. gizmos & all that witchcraft) than a good chunk of the competition, and it offered a lot of performance/parts for the money. It is the best Camaro money can buy because it is the best Camaro the engineers could dream up. Its biggest drawback is that you can't actually enjoy all that much on the street because it's just not at home off a race track.
 
You can have A/C. It'll just cost you $1,150 & be as effective as air conditioning in a Lamborghini Diablo. :p
 
That's the thing though. A driver has to be comfortable in a driver's car. Otherwise, you're just like a hired gun for a fat race car owner in a hot, uncomfortable, fast car.
 
Omnis
That's the thing though. A driver has to be comfortable in a driver's car. Otherwise, you're just like a hired gun for a fat race car owner in a hot, uncomfortable, fast car.
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Uh, most driver cars put the driver in a level of comfort with the car itself (which the Z28 does very well at giving feedback), not how relaxed he can be whilst reclining in his seat.

If A/C is a legitimate comfort concern for you, it's the last of your worries with a Z28 once you get to how it actually rides.
 
McLaren
Uh, most driver cars put the driver in a level of comfort with the car itself (which the Z28 does very well at giving feedback), not how relaxed he can be whilst reclining in his seat.

If A/C is a legitimate comfort concern for you, it's the last of your worries with a Z28 once you get to how it actually rides.
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A driver's car should be fun, communicative, and comfortable to drive. That is the holy trinity. I'll make an infographic:

XJPkY4U.jpg
 
McLaren
Lol, that's exactly what the Z28 has been. Not one review I've seen has gone, "It'd be great if it just had AC".

Missing the point entirely of the car.
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No, it's in the yellow zone. Also, the trinity venn diagram is not to scale. In fact, the areas of overlap contain most of the vehicles.
 
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Omnis
No, it's in the yellow zone. Also, the trinity venn diagram is not to scale. In fact, the areas of overlap contain most of the vehicles.
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LOL, in a graph you seem to be behind. Sorry, I can't take anything you say about whether or not its a drivers car seriously when your reasoning was originally the AC unit you can have optioned back in.
 
Now your complaint is the interior design. :lol:

Let's see what Evo thinks of how you rate a drivers car going by the Top 10 in their 100 Greatest Drivers Cars from 2009.

10: Mitsubishi Evo VI Tommi Makinen Editon.
9: Mazda MX-5
8/7: Ferrari F50/Renault Clio Trophy
6: Lotus Elan
5: Renault Megane R26.R.
4: Caterham Seven
3: Porsche 996 GT3
2: Lotus 340R
1: Pagani Zonda F

Hmm, following a pattern here? A drivers car almost always throws comfort as one of the last priorities; it's about feedback, fun, and how engaging the car is to the driver.

For a more recent test, here's Britain's 2014 test: Ferrari 458 Speciale, McLaren 650S, Porsche 991 GT3, BMW i8, Porsche Cayman GTS, BMW M4, Corvette Stingray, F-Type R, Vauxhall VXR8 GTS, Alfa 4C, Ariel Atom 3.5R, & Megane RS 275 Trophy. The top 3 were the 458S, Atom 3.5R, & 991 GT3.

Cars like the Z28 built for track use and driver thrill. Not comfort and AC blowing in your hair.
 
Omnis
All of those cars have better interiors than the Camaro. Even the Atom.
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So, you'll just ignore the fact that nearly all those cars don't fit in anyway to your little graph. :lol:

I don't think a drivers car is something you will be looking for in your next purchase.
 
Please tell me how they don't. In fact, I will tell you where they reside:

10: Mitsubishi Evo VI Tommi Makinen Editon. White
9: Mazda MX-5 Yellow/Green/White (power and roadster concerns)
8/7: Ferrari F50/Renault Clio Trophy White
6: Lotus Elan Yellow/Green/White (see miata)
5: Renault Megane R26.R. Yellow
4: Caterham Seven Yellow
3: Porsche 996 GT3 White
2: Lotus 340R Yellow
1: Pagani Zonda F White

Ferrari 458 Speciale, White
McLaren 650S, White
Porsche 991 GT3, White
BMW i8, White
Porsche Cayman GTS, White
BMW M4, White
Corvette Stingray, White
F-Type R, White
Vauxhall VXR8 GTS, White
Alfa 4C, White/Yellow
Ariel Atom 3.5R, Yellow
Megane RS 275 Trophy. White
 
Omnis
Please tell me how they don't. In fact, I will tell you where they reside:

10: Mitsubishi Evo VI Tommi Makinen Editon. White
9: Mazda MX-5 Yellow/Green/White (power and roadster concerns)
8/7: Ferrari F50/Renault Clio Trophy White
6: Lotus Elan Yellow/Green/White (see miata)
5: Renault Megane R26.R. Yellow
4: Caterham Seven Yellow
3: Porsche 996 GT3 White
2: Lotus 340R Yellow
1: Pagani Zonda F White

Ferrari 458 Speciale, White
McLaren 650S, White
Porsche 991 GT3, White
BMW i8, White
Porsche Cayman GTS, White
BMW M4, White
Corvette Stingray, White
F-Type R, White
Vauxhall VXR8 GTS, White
Alfa 4C, White/Yellow
Ariel Atom 3.5R, Yellow
Megane RS 275 Trophy. White
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When you actually review cars and have experience with these vehicles next to these publications, maybe your silly little graph will hold some weight. :lol:
 
Why are you so antagonistic towards my graph? It is truth.

Besides, reviewing cars isn't rocket science. The only thing it requires is money, or else everyone would be doing it. And even then, they sort of are.
 
Omnis
Why are you so antagonistic towards my graph? It is truth.
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Its not fact. You're not even consistent in your ratings.

A Z28 isn't a drivers car because it's not comfortable yet you label the F50 as one. And the F Type R is more of a drivers car than an Atom? You don't have the faintest clue. Thanks for the laughs. :lol:
 
The atom is a fun, responsive car. It is too raw to be a driver's car though. It doesn't even have a canopy. Are you going to driver's car it in the rain? Yeah, that's what I thought.

The F50 has air conditioning and fine horse's ass leather.
 
I don't know. Let's ask Famine since he's talked about how often his relative used his Atom.

The F50 is about the harshest Ferrari built in the last 25 years. Again, not a clue on what you're trying to categorize. I'd think you were trolling, but you seem to genuinely believe yourself.
 
The F50 is borderline, yeah. But at least you're not going to die like a baby in a hot car while driving one. And you've got protection from the elements unlike the atom class cars

Why is this bothering you so much? Don't you know that the bird is the word?
 
The concept of a "driver's car" doesn't have anything to do with luxuries and everything to do with pure driving involvement. I've never seen the term used in any other way. The thing can have air conditioning or not, leather seats or not, but what matters is that it challenges the driver to push harder and go faster and becomes an extension of his own body. That involving driving experience is the only requirement.
 
That sounds like a race car to me. What's a sports car?

Anyway, yeah, Mustang...

I'll move all this driver's car bologna to another thread. But first, a nap.
 
Omnis
That sounds like a race car to me. What's a sports car?
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Like I said, driving involvement is the only thing required. Obviously a race car would be the purest example of this. But that doesn't mean a car which focuses on driver involvement can't also have luxuries. The point is that the luxuries are secondary to the car's purpose. New Miata for example. It's really nice but driver centric.
 
Minimal electronic aids, extreme light weight, and a sequential gearbox would be present in my ideal driver's car.
 
My ideal driver's car is quite a specific thing. It has to be a car that's designed for driving pleasure. Outright speed is irrelevant to a true driver's car, in my opinion. It merely has to be all about the driver's enjoyment of the drive. For me, that means a certain degree of comfort when needed, but also a very, very communicative chassis. The steering must be lucid and full of feel, the suspension should be stable but not harsh, and the handling should be fairly neutral. The engine and gearbox are also important factors in my hypothetical driver's car. The gearbox should be a proper manual, with a precise but mechanical feel to it. The clutch should be straightforward and the pedals should be perfectly set up for heel-toeing. The engine doesn't have to be of any specific type, rather it should be full of character. A 1.5 litre VTEC would be as ideal as an LS7, as long as it is willing to rev and makes the driver a part of the experience. I've not driven a turbocharged car yet, so I can't comment on aspiration, but I certainly feel that older, more analog turbo engines have a great character of their own. In essence, I feel that a true driver's car is one that makes me feel special when I drive it, and one that as I drive it with passion feels like it wants to be driven harder and harder. If I find myself driving down a B road flat out without meaning to, it's a proper driver's car.

There are, of course, things that will detract from driver's cars for me. Width: the smaller the car, the easier it is to place on the road, and the more confident one is when driving it hard. Visibility: if you can't see out of it well, you can't drive it well. Weight: weight saps fun away by requiring everything to be more insulated. More steering assist, stiffer springs without any gains in grip, stiffer dampers, slower acceleration, etc. Lack of comfort: it's hard to drive a car flat out if you're uncomfortable. This is very personal, but I actually feel that a fairly luxurious car is advantageous in this regard. Good seats are a must, but heating and ventilation are icing on the cake. Aircon is a must unless it's a convertible, and even then it's helpful on hot summer days. A good stereo is also on my list, because everyone likes to listen to their favourite driving song while bombing down their favourite road.
 
Minimum weight and size balanced against a reasonable amount of comfort and practicality. Good visibility and ergonomics. Manual transmission (no exceptions) and ideally RWD. A competent chassis and suspension, and an engine that's eager to rev. Zero computer interference on anything you control yourself.

The best I've driven is my old E30.
 
My ideal drivers car is something that when I get behind the wheel makes me want to go for a long drive for no reason at all. It doesn't have to be fast, sporty, powerful, or even really good in the corners, it just needs to be enjoyable. I think my Volvo is probably the best example of a driver's car I've had to date, it's not exactly fast and it corners decently well but it's not going to set any track records, yet dropping the windows and going for a blast down some back roads is enjoyable.

I think people get too hung up on a drivers car has to be sporty, I'm sure many people would consider that their ideal drivers car but I don't think you can concretely say all cars with X, Y, and Z are in fact drivers cars.
 
A drivers car should be a car that's enjoyable on the track but is still usable for daily driving. It should be inexpensive yet somewhat luxurious.
 

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