What's in a name? Sir Lewis Carl David Larbalestier-Hamilton MBE HonFREng

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MatskiMonk

MatskiMonk

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So, in a move that might be controversial for some, Lewis Hamilton has decided he would like to recognise his mothers family name of Larbalestier, because he doesn't get why women take the husband's surname in marriage.

Initially, I thought "fair play", I can get behind this... then, although I'm not against it at all, I started to wonder about the logistics of it...



John Smith marries Joan Johnson, they keep their names and have a son called Andrew, Andrew Smith-Johnson.... or Andrew Johnson-Smith (lets go with the later and assume the etiquette becomes; surnames in alphabetical order)

Now, on the other side of town; Simon Taylor marries Diana Herzog. They have a daughter called Natalie Herzog Taylor.

In a couple of decades, Andrew and Natalie meet, they marry, they keep their names, but the first born... Jerimiah, get's both surnames, in order to respect his parents, he is Jerimiah Herzog-Taylor Johnson-Smith...

NOW...

Let's say Jerimiah meet's, and falls in love with Charlotte Kenseth-Montoya Kristensen-Mickle... they have a kid...

Meet Bobby Kenseth-Montoya Kristensen-Mickle Herzog-Taylor Johnson-Smith.

(and that's with no middle names).

Now, let say Bobby meets Helen Potsdam-Smythe Burgess-Stanley Hitler-Churchill Fittipaldi-Mazepin (her family travelled a lot)...

.. behold Bobby and Helen's baby girl...

Waynetta Kenseth-Montoya Kristensen-Mickle Herzog-Taylor Johnson-Smith Potsdam-Smythe Burgess-Stanley Hitler-Churchill Fittipaldi-Mazepin



.. you see where I'm going.

I fully respect women keeping their maiden names in marriage. I fully respect children keeping both family names... but, without the culling of one name per generation, prior to child birth, things get crazy real quick, what is the best way of doing things?

Any thoughts?
 
MatskiMonk
So, in a move that might be controversial for some, Lewis Hamilton has decided he would like to recognise his mothers family name of Larbalestier, because he doesn't get why women take the husband's surname in marriage.

Initially, I thought "fair play", I can get behind this... then, although I'm not against it at all, I started to wonder about the logistics of it...



John Smith marries Joan Johnson, they keep their names and have a son called Andrew, Andrew Smith-Johnson.... or Andrew Johnson-Smith (lets go with the later and assume the etiquette becomes; surnames in alphabetical order)

Now, on the other side of town; Simon Taylor marries Diana Herzog. They have a daughter called Natalie Herzog Taylor.

In a couple of decades, Andrew and Natalie meet, they marry, they keep their names, but the first born... Jerimiah, get's both surnames, in order to respect his parents, he is Jerimiah Herzog-Taylor Johnson-Smith...

NOW...

Let's say Jerimiah meet's, and falls in love with Charlotte Kenseth-Montoya Kristensen-Mickle... they have a kid...

Meet Bobby Kenseth-Montoya Kristensen-Mickle Herzog-Taylor Johnson-Smith.

(and that's with no middle names).

Now, let say Bobby meets Helen Potsdam-Smythe Burgess-Stanley Hitler-Churchill Fittipaldi-Mazepin (her family travelled a lot)...

.. behold Bobby and Helen's baby girl...

Waynetta Kenseth-Montoya Kristensen-Mickle Herzog-Taylor Johnson-Smith Potsdam-Smythe Burgess-Stanley Hitler-Churchill Fittipaldi-Mazepin



.. you see where I'm going.

I fully respect women keeping their maiden names in marriage. I fully respect children keeping both family names... but, without the culling of one name per generation, prior to child birth, things get crazy real quick, what is the best way of doing things?

Any thoughts?
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He's not double-barrelling it though. He's just putting it into his name, somewhere.

However it's less well thought out than you think, because it's not even his mum's surname.

It's his grandfather's - and the surname of generations of men before him.

His mum only had that surname because it was her dad's and she's his child. Whichever way you cut it, it's a man's name, not a woman's because - outside of countries with any matronymic (Spain uses patronymic and matronymic surnames) or non-familial (Iceland) surname tradition - surnames are, thanks to centuries of women being born with their dad's surname and marrying a dude and taking his surname.

Nice idea, shame about the execution, really.
 
Famine
He's not double-barrelling it though. He's just putting it into his name, somewhere.

However it's less well thought out than you think, because it's not even his mum's surname.

It's his grandfather's - and the surname of generations of men before him.

His mum only had that surname because it was her dad's and she's his child. Whichever way you cut it, it's a man's name, not a woman's because - outside of countries with any matronymic (Spain uses patronymic and matronymic surnames) or non-familial (Iceland) surname tradition - surnames are, thanks to centuries of women being born with their dad's surname and marrying a dude and taking his surname.

Nice idea, shame about the execution, really.
Click to expand...
To be fair, I was using Lewis's story just 4 teh clicks... but I think he raises a good point. I've a friend whose husband took her family name, and I really respect that. But realistically, it's not sustainable for more than one or two generations.

I'm curious as to what people would do, and what they would want their kids to do, and their kids... etc. etc.
 
MatskiMonk
To be fair, I was using Lewis's story just 4 teh clicks... but I think he raises a good point. I've a friend whose husband took her family name, and I really respect that. But realistically, it's not sustainable for more than one or two generations.

I'm curious as to what people would do, and what they would want their kids to do, and their kids... etc. etc.
Click to expand...
Well, there are maternal and even non-familial naming traditions elsewhere.

In Spain the paternal surname is considered the surname, but the maternal surname is actually the last name - taking Fernando Alonso Diaz as an example. Alonso is his father's surname, Diaz is his mother's. His children will be [forename] Alonso [mother's surname]. See also: Lucas Ordonez Martín-Esperanza. In fact, Spain could be where he's got the idea from - I recall hearing that upon becoming a Spanish citizen your name legally reverts to [forename] [surname] [mother's maiden name] (although in common communication it would remain as it was). It certainly makes genealogy easier.

In Iceland the father's forename usually becomes the surname. Leifur Eriksson's sons would be [forename] Leifsson, and his daughters [forename] Leifsdottir. Gylfi Sigurdsson's children would be... scared, probably. Allegedly.

Sometimes the mother's forename becomes the surname, though I don't know if it's a free choice or what. Probably Gylfi Sigurdsson's children would want to be known as Alexandersson/Alexandersdottir after their mother, Alexandra Ivarsdottir. Or not known at all.
 
Famine
[forename] [surname] [mother's maiden name]
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Internet banking security must be a bit risky in Spain!
Famine
In Iceland the father's forename usually becomes the surname. Leifur Eriksson's sons would be [forename] Leifsson, and his daughters [forename] Leifsdottir. Gylfi Sigurdsson's children would be... scared, probably. Allegedly.

Sometimes the mother's forename becomes the surname, though I don't know if it's a free choice or what. Probably Gylfi Sigurdsson's children would want to be known as Alexandersson/Alexandersdottir after their mother, Alexandra Ivarsdottir. Or not known at all.
Click to expand...
If I were them I would just go for IceCube or Ice T. If I married a foreigner, perhaps Vanilla Ice.
 
He might have gotten the idea from Ayrton Senna da Silva. Senna was the maternal name, and Silva the paternal one.
 
MatskiMonk
what is the best way of doing things?
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There isn't a best, there are a multitude of systems that can work with various quirks, pros, and cons. I view the traditional male orientated system as an arbitrary convention. It's not unfair, just convenient, and if it really does bother anyone they don't have to follow it.
 
Liquid
It's his choice and entirely not newsworthy.
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