(Wheel) Racing Tires with ABS OFF Vs Sport Tires and ABS turned ON?

[FastAShecK]

Your respectful thoughts and opinions.

MY opinion is running Racing Tires with the ABS turned off is a truer representation of reality than running Sport Tires with the ABS turned on. Heck they are making some pretty SICK Track tires nowadays, not such a stretch from the R Series tires in game, and I wouldn't TRACK a car on anything but Track tires. Michelin Pilot Sports Seem to be pretty close to Sport Softs, and Id only run those on the Track if doing Factory Stock runs, gauging the Showroom performance, but that's out the window when I tune the car, as you see most Time Attack Tuner challenges run Track tires not MPS tires. Some events (Gearing more to a Stock or lightly modified crowd) will have rules like you must run tires you can drive to the event on (DOT approved) But the Real Time Attacks, and Tuner Challenges run Real Track Tires, same as any Racers like GT300, GT500, LM, TC, F1, etc, to my knowledge at least..

The Brakes seem to be just fine to me with the ABS turned off, and ABS to me is just another assist. Not to be disrespectful to anybody, I play my own way and leave everybody to play how they like. I try and turn ABS off on every car I tune only using it when I have to and feeling as though using it is a bit of a personal failure on my part. I'm no hot lapper, so I'm not in the OLR threads posting up sick times, just confused when people brag about running only Sport Soft tires, but still run a driving assist called ABS.

ABS is illegal in most forms of racing. Why is that one aspect so ignored?

Sport Tires On the Track?

Some may feel Sport tires better represent real life Track Tires grip levels...

I've heard a few people ran some test in GT4 and deemed then that the R series tires had too much grip, I'm not aware of any concrete GT5 evidence to say the same, enlighten me if Im wrong. Lap times in GT5 are no where near as fast as GT4 (I had a 6:30.000 Street ITR) given this is greatly due to the new down force system it partially may be due to more realistic grip levels in the tires.

Online I'm forced into using ABS because with it off I'm just handicapping myself because everybody else uses it. I also have been getting messed up in races where skid force and grip force recovery is on the competitions cars and not mine. Too many restrictions the rooms get empty, so often one is forced to racing by other people rules or sitting on a track by themselves.

Its almost as though the general consensus is to bash the braking in the game so much the use of the driving assist ABS is not generally considered to be an assist, but rather just a means of getting past PDs sloppy programming.

GIVEN

Some cars are F-ed with the ABS turned off, some cars are just quirky like that, it is a SiM after all, and not actually reality. I still find most cars everything is pretty darn good including the brakes without ABS.

I understand the DS3 users are a little bit of a different field where the controller needs translating stick and trigger movements into desired driver inputs.

 

[NCRthree]

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=264980&highlight=ABS+OFF+COMMUNITY

Check out this thread.

 

[FastAShecK]

Thanks, nice to see there is a crowd all seeing exactly what I see. Put ABS in it's place, a driving assist.

Now just to figure out why Sport Soft Tires are thought of as being the realest tires, are there some GT5 tire grip level testing threads I haven't been able to find, or is that just a conception that carried over from GT4?

 

[Johnnypenso]

I run with ABS off quite often, but even I have to admit, the ABS0 brake model is flawed and I think that's what turns most people off of ABS0 driving. You shouldn't be able to easily lock up tires with a setting of 1/0 yet you can on many cars. Makes any finer adjustment impossible because you can only go higher and not lower. You end up on many tracks using 25% or less braking pressure on many corners and it's just such a narrow range of functionality that most casual gamers give up on it quickly.

If they fixed it so the brakes didn't lock up floor until the 3 or 4 level it would be much more useful and finer adjustments more possible. I'm not saying you can't drive with them the way they are, I do it all the time, but it does take a lot of skill and patience and most guys just aren't that deep into the game.

 

[FastAShecK]

I run with ABS off quite often, but even I have to admit, the ABS0 brake model is flawed and I think that's what turns most people off of ABS0 driving. You shouldn't be able to easily lock up tires with a setting of 1/0 yet you can on many cars. Makes any finer adjustment impossible because you can only go higher and not lower. You end up on many tracks using 25% or less braking pressure on many corners and it's just such a narrow range of functionality that most casual gamers give up on it quickly.

If they fixed it so the brakes didn't lock up floor until the 3 or 4 level it would be much more useful and finer adjustments more possible. I'm not saying you can't drive with them the way they are, I do it all the time, but it does take a lot of skill and patience and most guys just aren't that deep into the game.

I think in there lies my point. It takes more skill to drive ABS 0 than with any active ABS setting. Takes some getting used to, but stick with it and it just gets easier and easier. The same as it takes more skill to run hot laps on Sport series tires then it does with R series, it takes some getting used to but easier and easier as you go.

Coupled with tire choice there is a large crowd that likes to bash people running R series tires mocking anything above sports tires, yet those guys (from whats I've seen) still run ABS 1, some above 1 on top of it.

Have the tires in GT5 not gone closer to reality than back in GT4? If so why have the views of tire selection carried over? What testing of the GT5 tires has been done to compare grip levels to real tires available?

Its kinda a 2 part observation, but comes down to

Is running Sport Soft Tires with ABS Turned on, a more "Real" configuration than running R tires with the ABS turned off?

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I think comfort tires depicted quite realistically in GT5, I usually drive up to 600PP cars with comfort tires, like this one - 800+HP and 610+PP, 9/6 BB. The high BB means less than 50% brake pressure input ( red bar ) is enough for most braking. Pedal users will find this very difficult to perform consistently without brake pedal mod.



No ABS does not need impressive skills to master, it just needs time and perseverance. I am using stick, a DS2 to be precise from PS2. I used USB adapter, gas and braking with face buttons, modulate them in a whim without any issues - check the video - I often have quarter or half throttle and brake. Maybe I am the only one who run high BB without ABS using stick , it took me 6 months to get used to no ABS - since release day of GT5.

For me, ABS in GT5 makes driving on any tire easier by reducing the load on the driver - no lock up to worry about. It also has subtle stability added when braking - maybe comparable to EBD + VDC/DSC + ABS in real life car.

 

[FastAShecK]

That was sweet. Great Hot Lap. On Comforts with no ABS? Thats Sick. What is the brake pedal mod? Are you talking about the rubber band mod? I run the DFGT and haven't done the mod yet. Seems I might need to look into that some more if that's the case.

Yup add active steering, grip loss reduction and skid force recovery and well every tire gets sticky.

Curious though what Tire you find comparable to comforts? MPS series tires? As many of the High performance street cars come factory equipped with them.

Great Hybrid too, very nicely done.

 

[NCRthree]

I think in there lies my point. It takes more skill to drive ABS 0 than with any active ABS setting. Takes some getting used to, but stick with it and it just gets easier and easier. The same as it takes more skill to run hot laps on Sport series tires then it does with R series, it takes some getting used to but easier and easier as you go.

Coupled with tire choice there is a large crowd that likes to bash people running R series tires mocking anything above sports tires, yet those guys (from whats I've seen) still run ABS 1, some above 1 on top of it.

Have the tires in GT5 not gone closer to reality than back in GT4? If so why have the views of tire selection carried over? What testing of the GT5 tires has been done to compare grip levels to real tires available?

Its kinda a 2 part observation, but comes down to

Is running Sport Soft Tires with ABS Turned on, a more "Real" configuration than running R tires with the ABS turned off?

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=160821&highlight=TIRE+TESTING

This is a pretty interesting test but it was performed before 2.09. I'll have to hunt it down but someone else did a test comparing real life tires to GT5's grip levels using Tire Rack data.

Any discussion on what constitutes "reality" in GT5 is like opening a can of worms in this forum. How "real" are GT5's overall physics to begin with? I've done way too much reading on GTP about real vs virtual in GT5. I just run no aids offline now, the cars are so much more alive. Online in my group, several of us run ABS OFF on SH tires in Miata TC's while the majority stick with ABS ON.

In GT5P I believe the "real" tire recommendation by PD was one step below default. I even run CH tires a lot in long Arcade races in low powered cars. Plenty of grip with them plus combined with no abs and you're more in line with the AI's brake points.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Comfort Hard and Medium might be comparable to factory tires that came with the car, comfort soft would be the soft compound high performance tires fitted to high power sports car like ones on Corvette ZR1, Nissan GTR, Honda NSX, Ferraris, Lambos etc. Sports Hard would be semi slick tires used mostly for track days - Falken Azenis for example. Sports Medium and Soft should be slick racing tires - hard and medium compound respectively. Racing Hard would be slick racing soft compound, and racing medium would be qualifying super soft compound slick. Last one, Racing soft and super soft --- fantasy tire for GT5 only They are just my wild guess, don't take my words

You'll also be surprised of how good comfort soft tire is, try to bring high HP and PP car on comfort soft to SSR7, go to max speed, and see how much grip the tire have.

Brake mod usually comprise of changing the spring - GT Eye, Nixim brake mod, adding sponge behind the brake pedal, check the sim hardware forum, there are plenty threads about it.

 

[NCRthree]

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=244830&highlight=TIRE+TEST

Here it is.

 

[FastAShecK]

Thanks for the informative post, Ill take some time to go over the information provided

Ridox2JZGTE right off the bat I like your tire assessment.

 

[FastAShecK]

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=244830&highlight=TIRE+TEST

Here it is.

I'm a little confused on how he comes to his conclusions. I didn't see where he did any testing to draw his conclusions from, so what is he basing his results off of??

We now have a means to get a g reading from our tires. Its not a skid pad it doesn't give us cornering G's, so how useful is that in game measurement. C'mon PD Give us a Skid Pad to record G's, almost there..

Reading the """0.96-1.06G's= CS""" I have to take a second look because not sure if the CS in the game will hold 1.06g's who knows maybe they hold more. However without any testing or data to substantiate his Tire ratings, it doesn't hold any weight in my eyes. Especially when he directs people to send him car, rim and tire info he will then inform us of the "Realistic" tire to be used, but if there is no formula to publish that hes using, or in the very least an explanation of how he comes to these conclusions then I cant really take anything out of that except its expressed opinion, unsubstantiated opinion.


I expect a tire to be able to hold the same car in the corner at the same speed. In the end that's all that matters. What a in game measured g rating is in any event is still only a number, the car holding the corner at a given speed is the important part. Some sort of testing to that effect must be done to confirm or deny any classification like MPS = CS in GT5.

 

[NCRthree]

I'm a little confused on how he comes to his conclusions. I didn't see where he did any testing to draw his conclusions from, so what is he basing his results off of??

We now have a means to get a g reading from our tires. Its not a skid pad but it does give us an idea.

Reading the """0.96-1.06G's= CS""" I have to take a second look because not sure in the CS in the game will hold 1.06g's who knows maybe they hold more. However without any testing or data to substantiate his Tire ratings, it doesn't hold any weight in my eyes. Especially when he directs people to send him car and tire info he will then inform us of the "Realistic" tire to be used, but if there is no formula to publish that hes using then I cant really take anything out of that except its expressed opinion, unsubstantiated opinion.

I don't know what he did for testing. Just thought it was interesting how he did the real life tire list with a rough idea what a GT5 tire would correspond to.