Wheel V Pad

[thedarski]

Has anyone out there heard of pad users getting much longer out of there tyres then wheel users. I race very regularly online in championship races with all types of cars ( same car un-modified cars, F1, GT500, Mini's, Touring Cars ) to name but afew, and we have noticed that the pad users are getting almost 8 laps more out of a set of racing softs. They are also getting alot more understeer then the wheel users. I think a patch is required to fix this issue. Wheel users should have the advantage here not the pad. as this is a driving game after all.
Many thanks. Hope someone can help.
Darski

 

[CoolStory]

Has anyone out there heard of pad users getting much longer out of there tyres then wheel users. I race very regularly online in championship races with all types of cars ( same car un-modified cars, F1, GT500, Mini's, Touring Cars ) to name but afew, and we have noticed that the pad users are getting almost 8 laps more out of a set of racing softs. They are also getting alot more understeer then the wheel users. I think a patch is required to fix this issue. Wheel users should have the advantage here not the pad. as this is a driving game after all.
Many thanks. Hope someone can help.
Darski

I often wear the heck out of my tires, wheel or DS3. But recently (before the update, I think) I raced in a clean Nascar room with the DFGT. I don't know if the others in the room were using a controller or a wheel but they all had to pit; we had some minor collisions and I spun a couple times, hit a few walls, but made it all 30+ laps on the same Racing Softs, finished second maybe a car length behind and didn't have to pit. Then again, this could have been a stroke of luck

When I use the wheel, it's a much better simulator than the DS3 and so I often do a lot more correcting. Little things like that can kill my tires depending on the track and the race length. Same goes with when I use the DS3. I think it just depends on the tune and the car a lot of the time

As for the understeer problem, it's also about the lines you take. Regardless of understeer, if they shoot to the lower line and go smooth, wheel or not you most likely won't be missing your apex

But I do agree, there is a margin. Should definitely be fixed, especially in a series situation

 

[tricd04]

Would it possibly have something to do with steering sensitivity? I don't play online, but I have seen the setting in the same menu as with the TCS, ABS, etc. settings, and it would make sense if someone with a different setting there would have worse/better tire wear.

 

[rosckolove]

Well, a wheel is arguably a little faster, not by much. But it is.
But i think a DS3 is much much easier to correct an error with, i only see a couple fast drivers online with a wheel, and most of the time what takes them out of a race is inconsistency, or not recovering from an error as quickly as they should. So if your not at the absolute top of your game, you could be burning up tires faster with a wheel.

 

[Darkrage1138]

Well, a wheel is arguably a little faster, not by much. But it is.
But i think a DS3 is much much easier to correct an error with, i only see a couple fast drivers online with a wheel, and most of the time what takes them out of a race is inconsistency, or not recovering from an error as quickly as they should. So if your not at the absolute top of your game, you could be burning up tires faster with a wheel.

I use a wheel and now this whole post to be fact. you can be more precise with a wheel but if you mess up your done for. i used to use DS3 so i know the unique bits.

 

[Bluntified]

Well, a wheel is arguably a little faster, not by much. But it is.
But i think a DS3 is much much easier to correct an error with, i only see a couple fast drivers online with a wheel, and most of the time what takes them out of a race is inconsistency, or not recovering from an error as quickly as they should. So if your not at the absolute top of your game, you could be burning up tires faster with a wheel.

Same thing could be said about a 'twitchy' DS3 driver! When it all comes down to it, it's about the driver and how smooth they are. Someone that is smooth, on DS3 or wheel, is going to have longer tire life than someone who isn't.

I've been on my wheel for almost 4 years now and have no issues with tire wear. I can understand if your new to a wheel it can be a bit harder to correct, but once to know what you're doing, not so bad.

 

[seanneedscar]

Well, a wheel is arguably a little faster, not by much. But it is.
But i think a DS3 is much much easier to correct an error with, i only see a couple fast drivers online with a wheel, and most of the time what takes them out of a race is inconsistency, or not recovering from an error as quickly as they should. So if your not at the absolute top of your game, you could be burning up tires faster with a wheel.

Next time there is a time trial check out the leaderboards

the top few pages are always wheels

its not a little faster, its much faster

As for the tire wear issue. When you use a wheel, the front wheels can go outward to a larger degree than with a pad. This can cause 'pushing' if you are not taking your line correctly and wears out your front tires very quickly. Its not possible to do this with a controller

 

[rosckolove]

Next time there is a time trial check out the leaderboards

the top few pages are always wheels

its not a little faster, its much faster

As for the tire wear issue. When you use a wheel, the front wheels can go outward to a larger degree than with a pad. This can cause 'pushing' if you are not taking your line correctly and wears out your front tires very quickly. Its not possible to do this with a controller

you sure your talking about GT5 leaderboards and not iRacing leaderboards?

there are examples of stick users just being a couple tenths (or less) slower. So, wheels are a little faster, not much faster. Besides i haven't met a wheel user yet who can put my nurburgring lap times to shame.

@bluntified, i was talking about correcting an error, not crappy driving in general.

 

[seanneedscar]

you sure your talking about GT5 leaderboards and not iRacing?

there are examples of stick users just being a couple tenths (or less) slower. So, wheels are a little faster, not much faster. Besides i haven't met a wheel user yet who can put my nurburgring lap times to shame.

Anecdotal evidence is not evidence 👍

Wheel is faster by an appreciable amount.

 

[rosckolove]

Well actually in this case it is, if the controller is capable of doing it once, it obviously can be done again. In the 550pp italian TT, Using a pad I could keep up with the #1 guy through every corner (just not every corner within the same lap haha) I didn't feel like spending all that time to get the perfect lap, but i'm sure if more die hards used pads, you would see more pad users times up there. Most die hard fast guys use a wheel, so obviously the leaderboard will be cluttered with wheel users times.

So....

Oh and to what you bolded in my quote, i guess i was being modest? I cannot find a record anywhere of any user being faster, using the same cars. Including all of the lap times recorded on this site or anywhere else. The pad is hardly slower.

I'm not trying to come off as a some top driver wannabe, but in this case, i am the best evidence that i can use, as i know its true. Along with that japanese guy who got 5th? or something in a TT using a pad, WITHOUT using ABS.

Just because is not a probable out come, doesn't mean it isn't a possible outcome.

 

[seanneedscar]

PS3 doesnt come with a wheel, and neither does GT5. its an expensive investment and I'd wager that no more than 15% of the community owns a wheel

So technically, the majority of die hards on GT5 DO use pads..

 

[rosckolove]

PS3 doesnt come with a wheel, and neither does GT5. its an expensive investment and I'd wager that no more than 15% of the community owns a wheel

So technically, the majority of die hards on GT5 DO use pads..

Just because the majority of users, have a pad, doesn't mean the majority of die hards, use a pad. Besides, This isn't the point.

Pads are only a tad slower then wheels, and it is easier to correct an error with a pad, hence the possible tire wear thing you are seeing.

Also with a wheel, you can overturn the front tires, causing them to burn up quicker. With a pad, you can move the stick however you want, but its impossible to turn in the front wheels to much meaning that aspect of tire wear is never an issue for a pad user. Just noticed someone covered that already^^

 

[D-Max]

its an expensive investment and I'd wager that no more than 15% of the community owns a wheel

May I ask how you concluded the overall to 15%?
A lot of people use a wheel.

 

[Lewis_Hamilton_]

I am in agreement with Rosckolove, the best wheels users are faster than the best pad users, but the difference is literally down to tenths, sometimes hundreths (using Time Trial results as evidence). Sometimes the #1 time is by a pad user, I've had #1 times and I use a pad. I've compared my times in some A spec special events/licenses with when I used to use my G27, and they are pretty much identical, infact I was the tiniest bit quicker with a pad, but that's because I only had a wobbly ironing board to mount my wheel to.

I remember taking part in a mini GTP based TT with Dholland once and could get pretty close to his time; he's a GT Academy finalist who uses a wheel. He also did the same TT with a pad for comparison in which his time was about the same as mine, around 3 tenths slower.

As for tyre wear, it's generally easier to be smooth with a wheel as you have much more precision with steering, braking and accelerating. As has been said though, it seems to be easier to correct a mistake with a pad, however if you become one with a wheel, you get a feeling of the car much better than you do with a pad and can prevent slippage before it even happens. With a pad, it's more about predicting when the slippage will occur as there is zero feedback.

 

[seanneedscar]

^^^ Three tenths is appreciable. which was my argument all along

Thats losing about 1 car length through each major section of the track

 

[Lewis_Hamilton_]

I wouldn't say it's a lot. In race conditions, slipstream will eliminate any of that advantage too. It also doesn't explain when a pad user is the #1 time either.

 

[TP3]

I'd wager that no more than 15% of the community owns a wheel

May I ask how you concluded the overall to 15%?
A lot of people use a wheel.

According to this poll, 52% of the GT Planet community use a wheel. I imagine this is not a reflection of the Gran Turismo community as a whole.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=226232

 

[seanneedscar]

I wouldn't say it's a lot. In race conditions, slipstream will eliminate any of that advantage too. It also doesn't explain when a pad user is the #1 time either.

"slipstream will eliminate any of that advantage" meaning the wheel user is in front of the pad user, meaning the wheel is faster, which is what I've been saying all along

Theres an easy explanation for a pad user being #1.. time trial boards change constantly.... you just happened to see it at a time when it was newly released and a pad just happened to have the record

Ive never seen a pad hold a #1 time until the time trial was over. its never happened

 

[rosckolove]

its not a little faster, its much faster

Actually you said this^^,

"slipstream will eliminate any of that advantage" meaning the wheel user is in front of the pad user, meaning the wheel is faster, which is what I've been saying all along

After I already stated a wheel was faster. 👍

I don't know if this is fact because i just heard this, but isn't one of the GT Academy finalists on a controller? I could be dead wrong on this.

 

[Lewis_Hamilton_]

"slipstream will eliminate any of that advantage" meaning the wheel user is in front of the pad user, meaning the wheel is faster, which is what I've been saying all along

If two equal players are racing and the wheel user gets a head, he is not going to pull away in race conditions. In fact it would give the pad user an advantage on the final straight, so a sign to you too.

Theres an easy explanation for a pad user being #1.. time trial boards change constantly.... you just happened to see it at a time when it was newly released and a pad just happened to have the record

Ive never seen a pad hold a #1 time until the time trial was over. its never happened

I'm not 100% sure on that. However, there have been several pad user's in the top 10 of a TT once it's finished, making your point pretty moot. And as Rosckolove said, pad users can reach the GT Academy finals, which is the toughest competition in GT. Fair enough that more wheel users get tothe finals, but it goes to show that pad users can be just as quick. There's also the fact that the people who reach the Academy finals bought a wheel for the most accurate simulation, which is going to help them when it comes to driving the real life cars in the later stages of the competition. They are also made to use a wheel in the later stages of the competition, so might as well get used to using one rather than relying on the pad and having to learn how the wheel works when it's a bit too late to be doing that.

 

[seanneedscar]

If two equal players are racing and the wheel user gets a head, he is not going to pull away in race conditions. In fact it would give the pad user an advantage on the final straight, so a sign to you too.

Cant you see you are splitting hairs? That was never the debate EVER. I said wheel is faster, and I'm right. Stop trying to catch me in a technicality, it won't work, I will win.

I'm not 100% sure on that. However, there have been several pad user's in the top 10 of a TT once it's finished, making your point pretty moot

How does that make my point MOOT? LOL..

In the CURRENT TT a pad user is in like 4th place. ... 3 tenths behind first.. I already stated that 3 tenths is AN APPRECIABLE DIFFERENCE.

Are you people 12 years old?

 

[Lewis_Hamilton_]

You were saying that a wheel is MUCH faster. Rocskolove and I agreed that a wheel IS faster, but not so much.

I am stating that in a race, it is not going to make a difference.

Simples.

I didn't realise that was so hard to understand.

Edit: As for my comment about Dholland being slightly slower on his pad in that TT, he didn't put nearly as much effort into the pad time as he did the wheel time. I bet that if he spent the same amount of time on each device, that gap would be much smaller, possibly non-existant.

 

[TJC_69]

Voidsector ... fastest non GTP GT5 DS3 user that I know . Sector times set between him and myself on my DFGT are roughly 0.050 or so, plus or minus either way , and consistently so .

Talent is talent , wheel or pad. You can however be a little smoother and somewhat more precise on the wheel in terms of lines and exits , the car is not ' Jerking ' so to speak with slight inputs of change in direction if you see my point .

I prefer the wheel for the sim effect , and the pad for a quick run .

Still comes down to talent overall , if you're quick on a pad it translates to your wheel too .

Speed is speed .

 

[Saidur_Ali]

"slipstream will eliminate any of that advantage" meaning the wheel user is in front of the pad user, meaning the wheel is faster, which is what I've been saying all along

Theres an easy explanation for a pad user being #1.. time trial boards change constantly.... you just happened to see it at a time when it was newly released and a pad just happened to have the record

Ive never seen a pad hold a #1 time until the time trial was over. its never happened

There have been quite a few wins by pad players in TTs. Both wheels and pads have there advantages and disadvantages, I prefer wheel as it is easier for me to get up to speed quicker without needing a good tune while pad I would need the car tuned so that it is pointy but stable.

 

[Highlandor]

Has anyone out there heard of pad users getting much longer out of there tyres then wheel users. I race very regularly online in championship races with all types of cars ( same car un-modified cars, F1, GT500, Mini's, Touring Cars ) to name but afew, and we have noticed that the pad users are getting almost 8 laps more out of a set of racing softs. They are also getting alot more understeer then the wheel users. I think a patch is required to fix this issue. Wheel users should have the advantage here not the pad. as this is a driving game after all.
Many thanks. Hope someone can help.
Darski

Wheel will turn the car quicker than a pad - if both set to 'defaut' sensitivity, although analogue sticks are almost the same.

It was like this is prologue too..

Tyre wear is 100% dependant on someone's driving style and setup - period, nothing else.

Equiptment (wheel / pad) has nothing to do with it.

An aggressive driver with poor setup will burn their tyres out regardless of what they are using.

 

[rosckolove]

Cant you see you are splitting hairs? That was never the debate EVER. I said wheel is faster, and I'm right. Stop trying to catch me in a technicality, it won't work, I will win.

Your the kind of guy that, if you didn't win, You would have no idea. You would just go right on arguing oblivious to the fact.

How does that make my point MOOT? LOL..

YOUR point was to catch me in a technicality (failed) and.....
you stated that the time trials pad users eventually got shoved down the list, your point being that wheel users times are "much" faster but, he provided you with information stating that your point "of wheels being much faster" is wrong by saying that pad users place well in the GT academy finals. Thats how your point is moot.

In the CURRENT TT a pad user is in like 4th place. ... 3 tenths behind first.. I already stated that 3 tenths is AN APPRECIABLE DIFFERENCE.

And to say a wheel is MUCH faster, When indeed it is not MUCH faster. Appreciable in this case would mean "faster by an amount worth noting" Just so we are all clear here "a tad faster" means the same thing as appreciable, and i stated that long ago. Then you said i was wrong, but wait.. now your agreeing with me? Come to think of it I don't really think you have made any kind of "point" yet. But rest assured, I am certain you will win any debate, along with this one.

Are you people 12 years old?

I think you should slow down a bit, maybe re read this thread a few times. And reconsider that comment.

 

[1241Penguin]

Using a wheel can either be beneficial or harmful to players, generally speaking. If one doesn't have enough experience with a wheel, then they will usually find themselves to be slower than with a DS3. I personally see two disadvantages with the wheel. The first disadvantage is that there isn't an easily accessible e-brake button, and the second disadvantage is that going from lock to lock requires a whole lot more effort. Plus it's slower than using a DS3. This is one reason why I think drifting is a lot easier using a DS3, but that's for another thread.

As for the OP, I have a hunch that the reason why the wheel users are using up their tires quicker is as stated by rosckolove:

Also with a wheel, you can overturn the front tires, causing them to burn up quicker. With a pad, you can move the stick however you want, but its impossible to turn in the front wheels to much meaning that aspect of tire wear is never an issue for a pad user. Just noticed someone covered that already^^

 

[Doodle]

There have been quite a few wins by pad players in TTs. Both wheels and pads have there advantages and disadvantages, I prefer wheel as it is easier for me to get up to speed quicker without needing a good tune while pad I would need the car tuned so that it is pointy but stable.

I can remember only about 6 different TTs that has a pad user in 1st by 5 different people at the moment:

TT 25 #2 and TT 36 #1 by khmnt1995
TT 29 #2 by samurai_405
TT 33 #2 by Racfor
TT 18 #2 by infernal_tempter
TT 43 #2 by Peasentslayer


So almost all of the winners that used a pad are Japanese.

I also remember that there are ALOT more 2nd place finishes with pads than 1st place finishes.

 

[Felix]

When I went from pad to wheel , I noticed after a while that it is far easier to drive a paced lap to save tyres than with my pad.

I only have a very crappy thrusmaster wheel and I guess with the better ones out there , it's even easier to conserve tyres and drive silky smooth.

 

[Slash]

You were saying that a wheel is MUCH faster. Rocskolove and I agreed that a wheel IS faster, but not so much.

I am stating that in a race, it is not going to make a difference.

Simples.

I didn't realise that was so hard to understand.

Edit: As for my comment about Dholland being slightly slower on his pad in that TT, he didn't put nearly as much effort into the pad time as he did the wheel time. I bet that if he spent the same amount of time on each device, that gap would be much smaller, possibly non-existant.

3 tenths of a second us at least 8 car lengths ahead, at least in drag racing.