(When) is staying on the throttle while braking/cornering a good idea?

  • Thread starter nuu1212
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nuu1212

nuu1212

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In Karting you often have to stay on the throttle to keep the revs up, otherwise acceleration will just suck.
This is due to the fact that 'casual' karts are underpowered and have a semiautomatic/mechanical/centrifugal clutch.
In fact, at one local Karting, the owner was berating us not to use this practice, because he somehow feared for his clutches, but this is another story...

As the clutch in GT Sport is also an unknown automatic, I was just wondering what exactly happens if you stay on the throttle (slightly) during turns/braking,
what the benefits might be, and if any of the top drivers do it?
 
vvise
Very useful for the Gr3 MR cars, it helps keep the car balanced under braking.
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Yes, that's what i keep hearing, but I wonder if it is really about balance (which obviously could be achieved by adjusting brake balance) or rather something about the clutch and revs

MMX
Useful for any car with lift off oversteer. Keeping just a little throttle on, will prevent it from trying to kill you.
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But this refers to the moment before braking, right. While the brakes are fully active, it should not matter if a small torque is added from the engine. Except for balancing.
But why not adjust brake balance? Probably the answer is that we want it further back for maximum deceleration, but then deeper into the corner we want it further to the front!?
 
nuu1212
Yes, that's what i keep hearing, but I wonder if it is really about balance (which obviously could be achieved by adjusting brake balance) or rather something about the clutch and revs


But this refers to the moment before braking, right. While the brakes are fully active, it should not matter if a small torque is added from the engine. Except for balancing.
But why not adjust brake balance? Probably the answer is that we want it further back for maximum deceleration, but then deeper into the corner we want it further to the front!?
Click to expand...

Balancing a car with throttle under braking is quite not the same as balancing the brakes. It's more about dynamic shift of load. Simply put, by (only) braking hard you shift the load to the front axle and by (only) accelerating you shift it to the rear. Depending on layout (fr, mr, rr) and suspension setup this load shift has different effects. Lift off has the same effect as braking but less pronounced. So by blending in some throttle while braking you soften those effects. Hope that makes sense!

Try the recent "daily" with the TVR. Test braking hard and then turning in against turning in smoothly while braking and countering load shift with throttle. I found the effect to be quite pronounced!

Cheers, Thomas
 
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dimassa19
I've never see an 'Alien' applying this technique...So...
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Because you can't brake as late as possible if you're riding the throttle. I agree, and /thread as far as I'm concerned.

Some of these responses are laughable to be honest. Gradually decrease brake till the apex, gradually add throttle out. When done correctly, there will be no lift off oversteer. If you're lifting hard enough mid-corner to upset the cars balance, you're doing everything wrong.
 
dimassa19
I've never see an 'Alien' applying this technique...So...
Click to expand...

ARTAsean
Because you can't brake as late as possible if you're riding the throttle. I agree, and /thread as far as I'm concerned.

Some of these responses are laughable to be honest. Gradually decrease brake till the apex, gradually add throttle out. When done correctly, there will be no lift off oversteer. If you're lifting hard enough mid-corner to upset the cars balance, you're doing everything wrong.
Click to expand...

Consider yourselves proven wrong. Here is the the #1 world time for Bathurst circuit challenge done by none other than Lightning. Consistently on the gas and brake at the same time through the downhill mountain section. I dare you to try and come close to that speed without doing it. The car will spin out.

 
vvise
Consider yourselves proven wrong. Here is the the #1 world time for Bathurst circuit challenge done by none other than Lightning. Consistently on the gas and brake at the same time through the downhill mountain section. I dare you to try and come close to that speed without doing it. The car will spin out.
Click to expand...



Beaten with no overlap. Do what works for you in the end. “All roads lead to Rome.”
 
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Tou2istTrophy
Everyone is giving their best answer based on their experience. How is that prejudiced?
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Experience == prejudice, if

(A) it is based on too little data
(B) wrong data
(C) wrong interpretation of data
(D) the person does not keep an open mind wrt. different ideas
(E) the person uses the words "lift off oversteeer", because of his/her inability to smoothly enter a corner or adjusting BB:scared:

Can we move this to the philosophy forum?
 
Go to 10:30 , you can see the use of throttle clearly in mount panorama S , even with a car as stable as a porsche GT3 and a brake balance setted to the front -3. Very usefull in this kind of section.
 
For convenience, I'll refer to the use of braking and throttle at the same time as "left foot braking", as that's what this is commonly refered as in rally.

The usage of this technique heavily depends on what kind of drivetrain your car features, because the main perk of left foot braking is not necessarily to control weight transfers (otherwise you could just modulate your input without touching the other pedal) : the main interest is to change the rotation speed of your driving wheels and prevent them from locking.

On a RWD car, when you do that, all 4 wheels are trying to brake, but while the fronts are able to slow down freely, the rears meet a resistance in the form of the power you're sending to them. This prevents oversteer / creates understeer.
On a FWD car, you'll have the opposite effect : the rear wheels will slow down more and make the rear more lively. It's like using a muted e-brake. In real life, a lot of FWD drivers use left foot braking mid-corner to help the car stick to the inside. This works in the game too, but it requires quite some practice to get it right as you need to modulate both pedals not to fry your tyres.
4WD cars are a bit more tricky about this, because it depends on the front / rear ratio and how the differential works. Although in most cases you'd be using that for stability in a 4WD.

Left foot braking techniques can also be used out of braking zones, mainly with RWDs in high speed twisty sections where you try to go flatout, you just tap the brakes while still being full throttle to make the rear come back in line.
 
nuu1212
As the clutch in GT Sport is also an unknown automatic, I was just wondering what exactly happens if you stay on the throttle (slightly) during turns/braking,
what the benefits might be, and if any of the top drivers do it?
Click to expand...

What happens is that you get less engine braking, or even a bit of positive torque. It’s not related to the clutch though, other than that if the clutch was disengaged you also wouldn’t have any engine braking.

Reducing or removing engine braking can improve stability in rear wheel drive cars, or reduce understeer in front wheel drive cars.
 

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