Which Track / Road Car for 15K USD?

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mef

mef

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Hi there,
I'd like to get into club level circuit racing and also do the odd hillclimb, but no rallying, and are facing a buying decision.

The car will have to function as a daily driver and I'd like to get a car that has less than 80000 kms for reliability's sake.

The MOST important thing for me is getting a car that deals with the strain best on brakes and engine on a long track day with 100+ laps. I also want to stay clear of models that have (known) maintenance pitfalls or engine designs (bad turbos) which may not be suitable to circuit use.

My budget is ~20-25k New Zealand Dollars (I live in NZ), which is ~15k US Dollars. So... Which of the following cars would YOU recommend to buy?


1) Subaru Wrx Sti Version 7 Sedan, 6-speed 17" kind, Year 2000/2001
- I've hard about 'oil surge' issues on olders versions but don't know which ones are affected. Any clues? I've seen custom oil sumps to rectify this issue too, so maybe even the affected models can be fixed?

- Also heard the turbos might cause issues on prolonged circuit racing, maybe overheat?

2) Integra Type R, Year 2000 onwards
recommended to me by a club member

3) Nissan 350z Track Edition
don't know much about it but hopefully a good, reliable track car?

4) Honda S2000
was WARMLY recommended to me by a member 'one of the best handling cars ever' this coming from somebody with 20+years club sport experience

5) Lancer Evo
- have not done research yet or received recommandations. But presumable similarly well suited than wrx sti's?

6) Any cars I'm missing

If you know first-hand as an owner or have reliable info on any of these cars I'd like to hear about.

I'd be particularly keen to hear opinions from people with club sports or general track exposure. I imagine just by doing lots of track days you get an idea which cars break down first ;)

Many thanks

Mef
 
Of the cars mentioned I'd go for one of the rally rockets. I think they would be easiest to begin with but still have a bunch of potential.

How rare are C5 Zo6s over there? Over here they are starting to get around $15K and have performance similar to Ferrari 360s and such.
 
BMW M3? Don't know the NZ market, these may be expensive for any generation.

You can also build up a very strong Mazda MX-5 of any generation with that budget.
 
For a full on track car, I would go with a MX5 or a stripped and caged Honda. From what I've seen in MMC, the Evo/Sti etc make good cars, but they get expensive if things break, and if you're hitting the track frequently enough, things WILL break. In fact most of the cars on your list except the Type-R will be pretty expensive to repair. Of course this doesn not matter if you're willing to pay for the upkeep of these cars.

I reckon something like this would be awesome
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Cars/Honda/Civic/auction-285332053.htm
yet still not break the bank if something went wrong.

Honest opinion, buy a 15/17k car as leave it as your daily driver, and get a cheap track rat. Reliability etc gets thrown out of the window when you take your car to the track frequently. Everything can be fine and dandy, or you might blow your gearbox or stuff it into a wall. Up to you if you're happy to take the risk, especially if it's your daily as well. It might work if you're only doing an occasional track day, but if you intend to go racing fairly frequently, using your daily is a BAD idea.

Also
cale
How rare are C5 Zo6s over there? Over here they are starting to get around $15K and have performance similar to Ferrari 360s and such.
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HAHAHAHA you have no idea how expensive American ANYTHING is over here. This is the only one for sale on Trademe (our version of ebay). Just a tad over $25k.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Cars/Chevrolet/ZO6/auction-282294060.htm
 
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^^Other than the fact it's sold haha? I'd be a bit iffy just based on the no. of kms it's done, would depend on how the suspension/drivetrain etc are holding up.

I still reckon the way to go is pick up a Civic or MX5 that has already been track prepped (cage/coilovers etc.)for 5-7k, and spend the rest of the money on a daily. 20k would get you a nice bugeye STi or an Evo 7 if you looked around enough, and that way you could still take it to the track now and then if you felt like it.
 
Buy an MX5, modify it a little, or buy one that's already modified. I've obviously never driven one, but I was a passenger in a swiftly driven one, and it was the best experience of my life.
 
I would assume that vehicles like the NB MX5 and the EK Civic would be the cheapest to acquire, the easiest to maintain, and will likely be the most reliable choices overall. Driven properly, I would assume that in all forms, they would be class competitive.
 
The only car mentioned by anyone that I have experience with is the MX-5, so that's where my vote goes.

These things can be had for cheap, instant fun! Just take a quick look at one of the the videos I posted here. 👍
 
I looked at that red Z06 that was put up. The first thing that caught my eye was the $80k price tag! But then I realised that was NZ dollars.:dunce:

Picking from your list, I would go with the Honda Intrega Type R. I know in the US, you can pick up an Acura counterpart for dirt cheap, I'd imagine the situation where you are might be the same.

But off the list, I'd have to go with what others are recommending, a Mazda MX-5 Miata. These are super cheap to buy, and they do make a good track car.

Hope I helped!
 
I would not take an FWD (interga,...) for track use. Not recommended if you have a little driving/racing experience. Take a sporty 4*4 or a RWD

JDM: R33GTR/GTST, Supra, R34 GTT, S2000, Evo6-8, Sub WRX STI, Rx7, Rx8, Silivia...

Euro: Audi Rs4 (2000), S4, S3, BMW 330ci, m3, Merc 190E, VW R32, Golf IV V5 4motion, Bora V5 4*4

Us: Mustang, GTO, Corvette, Trans Am , Challanger,... (firstly conversion to Mc pherson suspension)
 
*ibo* S3 Racer
I would not take an FWD (interga,...) for track use. Not recommended if you have a little driving/racing experience. Take a sporty 4*4 or a RWD

JDM: R33GTR/GTST, Supra, R34 GTT, S2000, Evo6-8, Sub WRX STI, Rx7, Rx8, Silivia...

Euro: Audi Rs4 (2000), S4, S3, BMW 330ci, m3, Merc 190E, VW R32, Golf IV V5 4motion, Bora V5 4*4

Us: Mustang, GTO, Corvette, Trans Am , Challanger,... (firstly conversion to Mc pherson suspension)
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First off man, there is nothing wrong with a FWD car for track use, especially when the car in question is an Integra Type R.

Second, any American car and most of those European cars you've mentioned are far more expensive than Mefs budget allows. Plus parts are vastly more expensive and harder to source than Japanese cars.

And to Mef, a S14 or S15 Silvia/200SX or a FD3S RX7 could also be good choices if you can find a decent one.

Perhaps buy an E30 series racing car? Someone else has already spent the money on preparing it, theres always more than a few for sale, the pricing ranges from $10-15K and they're eligible for the E30 entry level race series as well as being useable for track days and other amatuer level motorsport.
 
All depends on driving experience as well, if you are new to driving performance cars, (and I assume you are due to your inexperience in knowing really what is what between those cars) especially on the track, I would buy something more suited to good, easy handling rather than big power driven through the rear wheels, it'll only get you into trouble. A FWD can be VERY good on the track - especially if it has Type R written on the back of it (genuine sticker though :sick: ) and they are somewhat easier to handle for racing novices. There are a lot of Swifts, Integras, Civics etc in Production class racing.

If you want a RWD (it will obviously handle differently, depends on your driving style and skill level) then as others have mentioned, an MX5 is a good place to start.

If something does go wrong, which CAN and DOES happen on a track, then being a Japanese car parts will be easier to get and cheaper (I'm from NZ, I really miss the cheapness and availability of Japanese stuff) and also aftermarket parts for these cars are readily available, usually off the shelf.

I wouldn't recommend a 350Z to a novice, or a big powered skyline, I don't want to seem like I'm underestimating your skill level, but I have seen a lot of people run into trouble by jumping into something too advanced for them, and when something goes wrong at speed, panic sets in, and it takes skill to bring those cars into line.
 
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Thank you so much for all your replies. I'm frankly blown away by all the response! :)

Revhead and Slidesquad have made some really good points, it shows they know the local scene. But kudos also for other who pointed out that MX5 might be a candidate. I should not have forgotten. Also considering I played most of GT3 in an Mx5 and for the fact that Mx5 just have a good reputation (although I didn't know they were also reasonably tough so could survive a full track day)

I haven't decided yet whether I should buy/build up a dedicated track car. I won't be doing more track days than every two months I think. I don't plan to compete in any race series at least for another year, so definately don't need a roll cage in my car.

One question, and it goes to Slidesquad, is the car you found on trademe
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Mo...-285332053.htm
I assume it's still road legal so I can drive it to events? We have a car at the moment that I use as daily driver (corolla automatic, my wife loves it :) ) so maybe I should just get a cheap race race and save my $$$ for now. Another thing I wonder about a track car like this, given that this one has 200K on the clock how do I know the wheels won't come off at the next break or the axle won't break? ;) Is it just a matter of doin the WOF checks and I can trust I'm safe? Or should I regularly (after each track day) have a mechanic take a look over it?

One other thing that just comes to mind, what happens if some dude on a track days fudges his braking or whatever and dives into my back? and is out of pocket and can't pay? I would hate to spend 15-20k on a nice Sti (there are a few on Trademe close to where I live) and have somebody wreck it on the track.

Regarding my own driving skills, as Punknoodle assumed, my driving experience is limited to fwd on the road. I've driven for 14 years on the road now and I'm happy to report that I'm not totally without motor skills (pun intended :)) but I still think it's best to stay away from RWD for now. I wouldn't want to overcrank it on the exit and spin off, mess up my car and somebody elses potentially (which I would also have to pay for I assume). I think I'm safer with FWD or 4WD for now.

Damn, I think I'm more confused than before. Not sure if I should go for a dedicated track car or not. One things worth mentioning is I only have a single garage at the moment and not much space around our house. It's a townhouse and more houses around us. So there's not much space to do work on a car or spread around parts. So overall I thought I might be better off buying something that has less milage. Hm...

Mef.
 
Not wanting to add to the confusion but have you considered a Caterham 7? I’m not sure of the availability in New Zealand or if the price would be right but it was the first car that came to mind as a track day car. Probably the biggest problem would be practicality although it’s not much more impractical than a Lotus Elise….in fact have you considered an Elise???
 
I would've went with either Honda. But like has been said, an MX-5 is going to be nearly perfect, as well as a basic Civic hatch (EK, EG).
 
Lancer Evo VII or VIII???
Older generations could be cheaper and maybe you could get some sort of upgrading?
Cars recommended by everyone aren't very fuel efficient, especially when the car is also used for day-to-day driving.


I know an Evo is not fuel efficient and i didn't say it was fuel efficient. When i said cars recomended by everyone i also meant my own suggestions.
 
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aaron?
Lancer Evo VII or VIII???
Older generations could be cheaper and maybe you could get some sort of upgrading?
Cars recommend by everyone aren't very fuel efficient, especially when the car is also used for day-to-day driving.
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And an Evo is fuel efficient compared to a Miata, S2000, Civic/Integra?
 
mef
One question, and it goes to Slidesquad, is the car you found on trademe
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Mo...-285332053.htm
I assume it's still road legal so I can drive it to events?
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It's got a warrant and a rego, so I'd assume it would be. Would definitely need a cert for the coilovers, and presumably the engine as well, but thats what, 500 bucks assuming it's not a total hackjob.

As far as I'm aware, once you get on track, all bets are off. Insurance companies will laugh at you, and I highly doubt that you'd get paid if someone stacked it into your car. You take that risk when you agree to get on the track with a bunch of other cars I'd think.

Basically, you need to sort out exactly what you want to buy.

If racing is your main priority, get a cheap stripped out track car. It might not be the fastest thing in the world, but you'll be having far too much fun to notice. Drive your nice comfy daily everywhere, and then take this out when you want to have fun.

However, if you want a fast street car that you can take to the track now and then, that changes things drastically. Get an Evo (not biased at all:)) or Sti, and then just enjoy it as and when you can. Both of those cars are more than daily drivable, and still keep up with just about anything else on the road. And are more than reliable if you're not a complete idiot. I've had my VI for just about two years now, and the only things I've done are basic modifications and maintainance. Nothing has broken, nothing has left me stranded. then again, I've only taken it to the track maybe twice (more to do with my uni student bank account than anything else).

BUT parts will be expensive, especially if you track it too often. Things like pads for the brembo's (capable of taking track abuse) will not be cheap. Oil is going to be more expensive than you would put in your Corolla, just little things that add up over time. Again, not an issue if tracking it is not the main priority.

And, while I can't say much about the others, Mitsi will royally bend you over for parts. Pads for your brembos? That will bee 900 bucks for the fronts :scared:. I got a full car set of Endless carbon ceramics for $580 ish. Noisy lash adjusters (a pretty common evo issue, gets really annoying)? $640 is the quote I got. I imported a set from the US for $125. God forbid you need to buy actual parts to make your car run that you can't pick up from wreckers! I'd assume most dealers would be not too dissimilar.

And that shall be my essay for the day! Just decide on what you actually want out of the car, and then take it from there.
 
If you were in the US, I'd suggest an E36 M3... but I do imagine those are a bit more down there.

The Integra Type R would be a solid choice a feel, and I've always had a bit of a soft sport for the DC2R and DC5R. I could toss out the Toyota MR-S, as they are quite fun to drive and reasonably priced (At least here) but you'd have issues with space much like with an MX-5 or S2000 (though the cabin/driver's area is noticeably larger on the MR-S).
 
Basically, you need to sort out exactly what you want to buy.
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I agree, need to brood on this for a few days..

BUT parts will be expensive, especially if you track it too often. Things like pads for the brembo's (capable of taking track abuse) will not be cheap. Oil is going to be more expensive than you would put in your Corolla, just little things that add up over time. [...]
And, while I can't say much about the others, Mitsi will royally bend you over for parts. Pads for your brembos? That will bee 900 bucks for the fronts :scared:.
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wow, spoke to a guy at a local dealer who used to do a fair bit of circuit racing and he said pads are like 70-150 bucks per wheel. Not sure if he meant putting non-Brembo pads on Brembo discs. But good to know it can get *this* expensive with getting parts from the dealer. I'm not suprised tho, I've heard from ao collegue who used to work in a dealer that their margins are huge on parts.

And that shall be my essay for the day! Just decide on what you actually want out of the car, and then take it from there
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thanks!

M.
 
Azuremen
I could toss out the Toyota MR-S, as they are quite fun to drive and reasonably priced (At least here) but you'd have issues with space much like with an MX-5 or S2000 (though the cabin/driver's area is noticeably larger on the MR-S).
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Thanks for mentioning the Toyota MR, I had it in mind too at some point. Need to check prices...
I guess my fav roadster would be the s2000 since it has really good handling, 50/50 weights distribution and such but the fact that it's got a more powerful engine also make it more pricier.

Will have time to think this all through on the weekend.

M.
 
mef
wow, spoke to a guy at a local dealer who used to do a fair bit of circuit racing and he said pads are like 70-150 bucks per wheel. Not sure if he meant putting non-Brembo pads on Brembo discs. But good to know it can get *this* expensive with getting parts from the dealer. I'm not suprised tho, I've heard from ao collegue who used to work in a dealer that their margins are huge on parts.
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What car did he race? Can't think of too many race pads for 150 bucks a corner. Maybe and older Evo without the big brembos? Or maybe mates rates from the dealer?

As long as you realise that your wear parts will wear out quicker on the track, and you do a bit of research on what those parts will cost, you should be sweet.

I'd also have a look at some of the car/brand specific forums and see what they have to say as well. Depending on which forums they are, they can be quite informative.
 
slidesquad#1
What car did he race? Can't think of too many race pads for 150 bucks a corner..
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I think regarding pads he was reffering to Sti's. The figure also seemed cheap to me, just from knowing that brakepads for cheap road cards go for this much already.
When he talked about his racing times it sounded like he drove at a reasonable competitive level in New Zealand, and mostly around Manfield if I remember right (my bran is a sift..) I should've asked why he stopped racing. He seemed in his early fourties or late thirties only. I'll go back to the car place against to test drive another car with my wife (a Mini :)) for my wife, so I can speak to him again.
 

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