Why can't we have more standard cars on track?

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humpus

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Humpus01
Given that the polygon count is around 200.000 for a standard model and 500.000 for a premium model, why can't we have more cars on track when standard cars are involved?

PD has chosen (or was forced) to put around 800 standard cars in the game, so we might as well get something in return. I know this probably doesn't mean we can get 40 standard cars on track, but it'll be way over 16 at least. I kind of like the idea of a 'standard' 24h race, or 24 formula gran turismo's on track instead of just 16.

In a race with standard as well as premiums, the amount of cars could also increase (up to the detail of 16 premiums).

Heck, I'd even like a GT5 standard mode next to the GT mode and arcade mode. Or standard online rooms.

What do you guys think?

Edit: kind of like this

(thanks to g0ld)
 
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If more cars are on track, keep in mind of some of the smaller tracks, namely Autumn Ring Mini, would probably get crowded. Unless they limited the amount of racers on said tracks.

It also depends if the PS3 is capable of controlling that amount of AI cars at once whilst not affecting the game performance.

But if it was possible, its a good idea, especially for the larger tracks like the Nurburgring
 
To address online, since GT5 uses P2P, i'm sure 16 players is the maximum that the bandwidth will allow (and 16 is pushing it most of the time)
 
Yeah, more cars on the tracks for the longer tracks like Spa, Nurburgring and De La Sarthe. 👍

40 cars on Route X! :sly:
 
SpookyVenom1
But if it was possible, its a good idea, especially for the larger tracks like the Nurburgring
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Ofcouse I wouldn't suggest to put 40 cars on track at London or anything like that :D
But like you say, Nurburging or La Sarthe, ... I'm going to do a 24h race next week and it's kind of stupid there are only 16 cars on track while around 10 of them might be standard, so there's a lot of extra potential for more cars.
 
I dont think its so much rendering the cars, but keeping track of the physics for all of them. Would be nice to at least double the amount of cars. I would like to see a max of 64 for tracks like Nurb. Otherwise it just gets too lonely on that track after most of the drivers spread out. Especially for 24h and free runs online. I'm sure this wont be possible till the next PS.
 
Tracks like Route X, Nurburging and La Sarthe could certainly use more cars/players, or at least for standard cars, like mentioned in the OP.
 
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NASCAR 2011 can handle 40+ AI cars on the track. They aren't the best drivers, but it runs. I'd guess the polygon count is more than standards but less than premiums. The tracks look just as detailed.
 
Maybe im wrong, but the biggest problem with the PS3, and past PS in general, is the limited amount of RAM. Sony has always been cheap on RAM. Without enough memory, thats not going to happen
 
I've seen a video once with more than 16 cars on track, I believe it was in the development stage of GTHD. It was just GT4 with upscaled cars running on (I think) the PS3. So not the premium cars yet, like in GTHD, but just the GT4 models. Can't find it anywhere though.
 
dethringr
Maybe im wrong, but the biggest problem with the PS3, and past PS in general, is the limited amount of RAM. Sony has always been cheap on RAM. Without enough memory, thats not going to happen
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Cheap may not be the right word, the ram used (for its day ~6 years ago) was very advanced, fast stuff with lower amounts used under the belief that the throughput would be fast enough to counter the need for a larger pool, sadly as devs got better and better at using the ridiculously quick SPU's the limited ram quickly became the item holding things back.
 
Aloha62_2
Cheap may not be the right word, the ram used (for its day ~6 years ago) was very advanced, fast stuff with lower amounts used under the belief that the throughput would be fast enough to counter the need for a larger pool, sadly as devs got better and better at using the ridiculously quick SPU's the limited ram quickly became the item holding things back.
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Cheap, cockyness, short sighted, whatever you wanna call it. Sony never gave their system enough RAM. Thats why we cant voice chat while playing games. Even Sony admit they cant do it cuz there's just not enough memory. PS2 didnt have enough memory so 2D sprite games where missing frames of animations. Same goes with the original PS.
 
You all wanna know why it's a problem? the problem is not enough available RAM. There i said it and it's true like every Dev has been saying for years now.
 
chuyler1
It's not the RAM. It's pD's code. As I said before, NASCAR 2011 can get it done.
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NASCAR 2011 does not have the graphic detail that GT5 or Forza 4 has hence the reason why it has more available ram to put more cars on track.
 
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humpus
I've seen a video once with more than 16 cars on track, I believe it was in the development stage of GTHD. It was just GT4 with upscaled cars running on (I think) the PS3. So not the premium cars yet, like in GTHD, but just the GT4 models. Can't find it anywhere though.
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The video is called Gran Turismo 5 Vision. You can find it on YouTube, I'm on PS3 so I can't post it.
 
g0ld
The video is called Gran Turismo 5 Vision. You can find it on YouTube, I'm on PS3 so I can't post it.
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Thanks man. I added it to the OP. I can count at least 21 cars in one of the last shots (during the pit scene). That would be so awesome.
 
Killa Aaron
NASCAR 2011 does not have the graphic detail that GT5 or Forza 4 has hence the reason why it has more available ram to put more cars on track.
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Are NASCAR models lower than standards?
 
chuyler1
As I said before, NASCAR 2011 can get it done.
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Yeah, because the cars have lower detail and it runs at half the framerate ¬.¬ Whilst it might be possible to get the number of cars to 20-24 with all standard cars, you are underestimating how much optimisation went into GT5 just to get 16 cars. Most tracks in the game only run at 12 cars because of these limitations.
 
I forgot about the 60 FPS.
Yes that would take a hit too.

Not possible then I suppose.
 
Mh great idea. Compared to Forza 4 (which as 16 cars with 1,000,000 polygone each) it is a little bit weak i think.
And it runs on 60 FPS

I think it would be possible. Mh. For GT6 and Forza 5 i hope they will be capable of more than 24 cars on some modes or tracks.
 
ch3ng
Mh great idea. Compared to Forza 4 (which as 16 cars with 1,000,000 polygone each) it is a little bit weak i think.
And it runs on 60 FPS

I think it would be possible. Mh. For GT6 and Forza 5 i hope they will be capable of more than 24 cars on some modes or tracks.
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Of course 1,000,000 polygon is impossible on tracks. They use different levels of models, so does GT5.
 
ch3ng
Mh great idea. Compared to Forza 4 (which as 16 cars with 1,000,000 polygone each) it is a little bit weak i think.
And it runs on 60 FPS

I think it would be possible. Mh. For GT6 and Forza 5 i hope they will be capable of more than 24 cars on some modes or tracks.
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its only 1millon on "auto vista" which is appearntly a whole different disk :crazy: but lets not go there :sly:
 
Seismica
Yeah, because the cars have lower detail and it runs at half the framerate ¬.¬ Whilst it might be possible to get the number of cars to 20-24 with all standard cars, you are underestimating how much optimisation went into GT5 just to get 16 cars. Most tracks in the game only run at 12 cars because of these limitations.
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The limitations are only ones created by PD for attempting to run a high frame rate with cars that are simply too detailed. High polygon counts are great for viewing the cars in the garage or watching replays, but when you are playing the game, physics, damage, debris, and car count is more important. PD hasn't figured that out yet. Plus, 60 fps really isn't necessary for a racing game. If you can get a solid 30-40 fps with no hiccups you'll be able to race to your heart's content without ever noticing it isn't at 60 fps.

I watch this replay of NASCAR 2011 and it makes me wish GT5 could do this.



* 40 cars
* detailed track surface with noticeable repair patches
* detailed cars with good shadows
* better damage (not great but better) with debris
* cautions and restarts (jump to 5:30)
* instant replays of crashes so everyone can see what happened
 
chuyler1
The limitations are only ones created by PD for attempting to run a high frame rate with cars that are simply too detailed. High polygon counts are great for viewing the cars in the garage or watching replays, but when you are playing the game, physics, damage, debris, and car count is more important. PD hasn't figured that out yet. Plus, 60 fps really isn't necessary for a racing game. If you can get a solid 30-40 fps with no hiccups you'll be able to race to your heart's content without ever noticing it isn't at 60 fps.

I watch this replay of NASCAR 2011 and it makes me wish GT5 could do this.



* 40 cars
* detailed track surface with noticeable repair patches
* detailed cars with good shadows
* better damage (not great but better) with debris
* cautions and restarts (jump to 5:30)
* instant replays of crashes so everyone can see what happened
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Are you sure that gameplay is from PS3?
 
Not 100% sure but I have the game and it looks exactly like what I see on my PS3.

The game is fun when you want a break from GT5. The physics at times feel more realistic...especially when you unload the suspension going over the crest of the hill at Infineon Raceway. The only problem is the A.I. drivers are pretty slow and you can work up the field in 10 laps (even less for a track like Daytona).
 

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