Why do some people get mad at A.I. that make small mistakes?

Discussion in 'Project CARS 1' started by PGOT__DM, May 31, 2015.

  1. PGOT__DM

    PGOT__DM

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    **Rant Warning**It seems really odd that people in PCars critique the A.I. for making occasional small mistakes like getting bumped into, going slightly slow through corners, braking a little too early, not realizing that your there. Please I should emphasis the OCCASSIONAL factor here and I'm not including when the A.I. cheats. Obviously when the A.I. cheats that isn't good. But back to my point, when A.I. makes occasional to me it makes the game and the A.I. feel more realistic as there is mistakes in real racing from ameteur to F1. It seems like these people act like they never make mistakes or run an A.I. off the road by accident. Its not like online is any cleaner. Thank You for listening to my rant. I'd love to here other opinions :). (Of course this doesn't apply to everyone)
     
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  2. HBR-Roadhog

    HBR-Roadhog

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    The Ai can be very aggravating at times. Sometimes I can get through a race just fine even when having to go through a bunch of AI cars but more often than not trying to get through a pack of AI is a very hazardous thing.
    For example my brother an I were racing online 1 lap on Nordschleife with 30 AI cars and we were starting in the back every race. I can't tell you how many times I would be coming up on AI cars where I had a clear line to pass and momentum to do so safely or so it would seem then when I am like 2 feet off the car it would suddenly swerve in front of me and stand on the brakes leaving me no choice but to hit it. Then it is like my car is stuck to that car who continues to apply brake and quite often steer me off the track.

    I have also had the swerve hard into me on a straight while I was directly beside then hitting so hard that it drove me totally off track and smashed into the railing at 150 mph.

    Of course I have also had cases where I got spun out or knocked off track that were due to me turning in on an AI car and times where I just misjudged the Space I needed to get through so the AI was not always at fault but quite often they were and at times it can be very frustrating to have a good run ruined by an AI car that just suddenly moves over as though you were not there at all.

    That said I was still enjoying racing the AI from the rear like that. It was much more interesting and fun than if I had bothered to qualify and get the poll. Of course I did not win several of those races due to one mishap or another while trying to duck and dodge the AI and move up through the pack.
     
  3. PGOT__DM

    PGOT__DM

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    You bring up a great point HBR although I haven't noticed this too much, but it probably has to do with the series difference (I've doing open wheel and I'm up to formula c) the A.I. can be overly aggressive but that is better than A.I. that are 5 seconds off your lap time and double as reckless *cough* drivatards *cough* or just time markers *cough* Gran Turismo *cough* and hopefully SMS will make tunes to the A.I. to make then more aware. But all in all the only game to compare in A.I. competence is GRID Autosport.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2015
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  4. GTlondoner

    GTlondoner

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    Don't forget the bigger cars hitting the smaller cars like semi trucks, And flipping them with so much ease its kinda crazy, mostly the historic cup with the merc and mk1 escort.

    But the most annoying bit is, Partly AI and partly the flag system,
    Why when 2 cars leave the pits in qualifying, And I pass one I get the blue flag move out the way of the faster car,
    I know its not legit we both left the pits at the same time,
    but coming up behind a car, on a hot lap that has just left the pit in front of you, it gets right in the way,
    and lapping during a race your total invisible to them.

    But at least they are not M. Rossi.
     
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  5. PGOT__DM

    PGOT__DM

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    I do wish the will implement an update that makes the AI not race practice and qualifying out laps like you are fighting for a podium finish on the last lap of the actual race (haven't played classic touring so I can't comment on the merc vvs escort issue)
     
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  6. Tak[TEC]

    Tak[TEC]

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    I think the much, MUCH bigger issue is that the AI is completely unaffected by going off track or driving in the wet. It's ridiculous how once it starts raining only you are at a disadvantage.
     
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  7. Gejabo

    Gejabo Premium

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    This is well known by the devs and will be fixed.
     
  8. RacerPaul

    RacerPaul

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    Whilst I'm enjoying the game and glad that patches are upcoming, I'm amazed that something so fundamental got through to the retail game :eek:
     
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  9. UkHardcore23

    UkHardcore23

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    Having put up with Forza 5's crazy drivatars and GT's placid non racing AI PCars AI is like a miracle happening on my screen!

    The only problem with PCars AI i can tell so far is they dont really work well with open wheelers as slight touches can end your race and with the AI overtaking on the inside alot it can end your race often.
     
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  10. TheBull

    TheBull

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    I agree with youre statement ,many times i beleive its down to the player not showing the AI the same respect as they would other real drivers ,ive read statements on the forum about being divebombed in the corner and i`m like what your complaining because you did not defend the line .The AI is far from perfect but why complain about youre rookie mistakes

    If you see cars grouped together coming into turns you know only the leader of that group is going to have the line everybody else is going to have to slow down a little touch to get round the corner safley ,so why do players think its their devine right not to slow down then complain when they ram into them

    The AI is supposed to be a tool to help make you a better and more aware driver nothing more
     
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  11. HBR-Roadhog

    HBR-Roadhog

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    The AI does some very flaky things on track sometimes. As I mentioned before I have had them swerve suddenly in front of me and then brake hard where there is no possibility of not hitting them and then once contact is made you can not steer your car as it is stuck to the AI. The AI then almost always brakes more making it to where you can not break free of them and off track you go more often than not.

    I can't tell you how many times this has happened to me when I was trying to pass even on the straights. I have became more aware of it and know better when it might happen now so am able to avoid it more often but basically if there are several AI running close then it could happen at any time when you are trying to pass.

    They will also sometimes smash into you when you are beside them. The AI will often make some very quick lane changes quickly swerving to the left or right. For example I was on Lemans maybe 1/3 the way down the 2nd part of main straight coming up on a string of AI cars running of the right side. I moved over to the left for the overtake. I made it up beside the back car in the group when he suddenly decides to move in the left lane. He doorhandled me so hard that I smashed into the railing with enough force to bounce back onto the track.

    Yes sometimes it is the players fault but the AI causes a lot of crashes if you are behind them. I have had them almost stop dead in front of me on high speed sections of track numerous times. It is not nearly as bad when you are closer to the front of the pack or when the AI is spread out a little but if you get 5 or 6 of them close together bad things have a way of happening.

    Try setting up a solo race on Nordschleife add the max number of AI cars and make then the same car as yours then set the grid for player last and try to navigate through the AI when the race starts. Sometimes you can get clean passes without issue but it is almost impossible to get through the first 10 or so cars without contact.
     
  12. Beeblebrox237

    Beeblebrox237 Premium

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    Why do some people get mad at other people that make small mistakes?
     
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  13. TheBull

    TheBull

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    I agree that the AI does do a lot of crazy stuff ,and i know what you mean about the first 10 cars what i have found by setting up a full Nascar Race at Watkins Glen 43 cars AI 100% qualifying lap times 60% of the AI were grouped around 1.2 seconds apart the other 40% ran 5-10 seconds slower

    I beleive the drop in standard between the 60% and 40% is whats destroying the race recently i started two races from the back of the pack

    The first race i started with them and sure enough as you say i ran into cars who were swerving and breaking making it impossible to avoid

    The second race i waited 15 seconds before starting to allow the AI cars to try and get some order ,unfortunatley i did not wait long enough and on the second lap i encountered the same problem just not as bad but by lap 3 an order or flow had been established

    Every race ive done like this has all changed once i made posistion 26 which is around the 60% AI mark which i stated earlier ran a decent qualifying lap

    The AI at this point still feels like its scripted to move over on a certain line which still causes the AI to bump into you wether youre there and try to pass or not but is to a decent standard where it feels like youre racing rather than avoiding if anything its learnt me to try and time my passing move better so if they do hit me its hitting me on the rear of the car ,the bump seems to be have less impact if i have my nose in front of the AI car when this happens


    If All the AI were of the same standard and had a smaller drop off so rather than having 40% poor AI it had 0% or 1% then i beleive the AI wouldnt seem so bad
     
  14. Cholton82

    Cholton82

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    From learning the hard way I have learnt to pass with caution and normally I'll build up a pass over a couple of laps so I can see where I'm clearly faster , I wouldn't risk a 50/50 into a corner I'd rather wait it out .
    However I have just started an Endurance career in an Lmp2 and you have to be a lot more decisive whilst negotiating traffic especially GT3 as they are no slouches .
     
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  15. Scaff

    Scaff Moderator

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    Last edited: May 31, 2015
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  16. BrandonW77

    BrandonW77

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    Yeah, no. If I'm trailing the AI they use the same basic braking and turn-in points that I do, but if they're trailing me they go many meters deeper and can pull of turns that shouldn't be possible.

    Example, I recently did the ClioCup events at Silverstone. In the final set of turns (left, right, right onto the front straight) if I'm behind them they brake near the beginning of the outside kerb, just like I do. If they're behind me and I brake there they either ram me or divebomb to the inside. If I try to defend the inside line........they divebomb through the freaking grass and usually shove me off as they bounce over the kerbs and back onto the track. So defending the inside line as you suggest does not always work and can end up with worse results. They don't show this behavior on every turn, but on some turns they show it every time (like the one in my example).
     
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  17. TheBull

    TheBull

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    I can remember this happening to me when i did the Clio Cup

    So i had to relearn how to do the line ,how to keep my speed reletively fast to stop them hitting me

    As i stated earlier the AI is a tool to help make you a better driver
     
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  18. [Nor]MclarenF1

    [Nor]MclarenF1

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    I'm mostly very pleased with the AI in pCARS. The fact that they don't drive like they're on rails like they tend to do in GT, and that they actually pose a challenge (atleast to me) and try to defend their line. However, in the classic TC2 cup the AI seems to be in Mad Max mode. They act like complete a**holes, the big Mercs in particular. I drive in constant fear of being dive bombed by one of those behemoths when going into a corner. I've lost count of how many times one those kamikaze Mercs have totaled my Escort.
     
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  19. GranTurismoFive

    GranTurismoFive

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    I think some of you have gotten so use to GT's pushover / give way AI that anything remotely challenging is seen as wrong lol.

    I for one love the AI on this game. Admittedly I've spent most of my time on just two tracks the Glen and Donnington. AI on those tracks alone have been amazing and offer a real challenge. Something I've wanted from a GT game for years.

    I love that they make mistakes from time to time.... Afterall it's supposed to try its best to simulate real drivers. I'd be more worried if it were 100% perfect.

    By the way I've only ever played this title with the AI @ 100%
     
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  20. SJC ALPHA

    SJC ALPHA

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    Overall I like the AI.
    There is however one thing that annoys me a little bit, and that is that when you come up to two AI running tandem when you get close they always go side by side, as if to block. I always get this in GT so not unique to this game.
    My theory is that the side by side is triggered when you get within a certain distance, which is causing these sudden drastic swerves.
    That's my theory anyway, and no doubt some one will tell me otherwise.
     
  21. svenvangent

    svenvangent

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    The AI at 90% on Oschersleben is also good with the GT3 .
     
  22. bleeder

    bleeder

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    I have no problem with the AI until I get into any open wheeler because then they turn into animals. disregard for fellow road users with an intent to drive into you. this area needs a big tweak, the AI need more awareness and a stronger urge to protect their own car by steering away from the player's. I run visual damage only in open wheelers at it's a lot more fun even with the carnage they cause.
     
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  23. [Nor]MclarenF1

    [Nor]MclarenF1

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    Just drove 24H Le Mans in an LMP2 car (until I got an almighty tank slapper at Indianapolis and tore the right front wheel off) and noticed that there is a big room for improvement on AI when it comes to multi class racing. The GT4 and GT3 cars do pretty much nothing to let faster cars by.
     
  24. Bigbazz

    Bigbazz

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    The AI piss me off to no end because they will brake too early causing you to rear end them, they will turn in while you're side by side or just in front, they will ram into you if you're slow out of a corner.. They are inconsistent and that's what makes them frustrating.

    There is also the issue with them just being crazy as hell. I had a race at Imola where the AI car would go off the track at the first corner and then flat out drive back on to the track spearing anyone at the apex of the 2nd corner... So I'm at the apex of the 2nd corner (so the right hand of the left/right chicane type corner) and the AI comes speeding in and spears me off the road... And it happened about 3x in a row, near impossible to get a clean start there.

    At Monaco I saw one car get stuck at the tight hairpin and on the next lap I saw the whole field trapped at that corner, no way to get past.
     
  25. Whitestar

    Whitestar Premium

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    Completely agree with the OP (about AI in general). I am one of those guys that even thought the AI in GT6 was ok, although a bit boring. :lol:

    In Assetto Corsa I think the AI is mostly great, even if it has it's flaws. I haven't tried racing against the AI in PCars yet, but from what I hear it's supposed to be even better than AC? So I'll probably be very happy with it. :)

    Programming computers to behave like humans must be one of the hardest things to do I would imagine. Let's cut all devs some slack.
     
  26. [Nor]MclarenF1

    [Nor]MclarenF1

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    I think I experienced something of a bug today. I just signed a contract with an LMP 3 team for season 3. First race at Road America - I had a comfortable lead over the field throughout the practice session (about 3 sec. to 2nd place) until at the very end where someone posted a flipping 01.33! I was lapping in 02.05 - 06 range, the rest of the field 02.10 or slower. There is no logic to explain that 32 second gap. Anyone else experienced something similar?

    I'll also post this in the glitch/bug thread.
     
  27. eran0004

    eran0004 Premium

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    Frustration is a part of real motorsports, right?
     
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  28. martinezlj

    martinezlj

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    I've seen that before, most of the time when I simulate the remainder of the session. Last night I outpaced the CPU by +3 seconds and then simulate, just to find out I ended in 9th. In the final minutes of the session, the first 8 cars posted times 9 seconds faster than me.

    Later in race 2, I had to retire because bad pit stop communication (my fault), pit stop was occupied and ran out of gas. In the post race statistics, I found out that the fastest lap in the race was 30 seconds !
     
  29. MortICi

    MortICi

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    I think its just a problem of not treating the game like a real race. Don't take unnecessary risks and the AI will respect you. Drive like a dick, and the AI will treat you like a dick.

    The videos on my channel took MANY re-try's to get clean, however once I did get a clean video not only was I faster but more mindful about my driving...

    The video below is nearly 200 builds back, but I haven't had a chance to do a recent recording...



     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2015
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  30. Telstar

    Telstar

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    One thing that is desperately missing is a let-you-pass behaviour. There is nothing more annoying than being on your qualifying lap while an AI car on its outlap doesn't give a damn about you coming from behind - instead of letting you pass and trying to not impede you. Same thing for lapping AI cars. You literally have to fight the backmarkers to get past instead of them simply getting out of the way.
    Definitely lots of things to do in that area.
     
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