Why DO they use such a crappy stock setups for locked/BoP?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Haitauer
  • 22 comments
  • 1,816 views
Haitauer

Haitauer

Messages
2,033
Finland
Finland
Messages
HI-tauer
Title says it all. I would really prefere driving these locked setup sport races with some less crappy setups. Put a good setup on any car in GTS and its a difference like day and night.

Any thoughts?

Edit: edited title to point conversation to locked setup in general instead of just BoP.
 
Last edited:
It’s better to just allow changeable settings in general so you don’t have to deal with a trash gearbox/suspension/LSD or any other issue.

( I don’t remember if there’s already a thread on this.)
 
Absolutely true. There are plenty of cars that are in a bad place right now and judging by the new BoP, it's getting worse for some (SLS - more weight, WHY!?).

It's either the gears that let some down, or the suspension/downforce fails to aid the car in turning.
 
time to level the playing field.
some folks have seemingly countless hours to practice...
some folks have very limited/no time to practice...
some folks know how to make a car work...
some folks don't...

Right now folks with time to spare have a clear advantage... time to let the "mechanics" with limited time be competitive.
The aliens will still be aliens...

So be it.
 
TetsuKobura
It’s better to just allow changeable settings in general so you don’t have to deal with a trash gearbox/suspension/LSD or any other issue.

( I don’t remember if there’s already a thread on this.)
Click to expand...

Wouldn't that result in people making 'unbeatable' setups that vary the field even more?
 
K32
Wouldn't that result in people making 'unbeatable' setups that vary the field even more?
Click to expand...
Just because you now have a tune for your car doesn’t make you overcompetitive right off the bat. Everyone will be in the same situation where they have the ability to be even faster, or in some cases, far more stable, and at that point your line along with acceleration and deceleration will play a bigger role.
 
They need to tweak the settings but leave them fixed. BOP is way too basic, all these changes do is make the next one the meta car.

Cayman is a good example, it doesn’t need BOP it needs it’s terrible gearing sorted! I mean have you ever needed sixth gear in that car? GTR another example, great car but can’t believe a race car would ever run that toe and camber, understeers like a barge!

Plus the fact, when you see one make GR4 races or GR3, the times being set in the leaders boards are very similar to the meta car of that race if it’s an open car choice. These cars are only meta for a couple reasons, 1. Because everyone thinks it’s fastest so everyone uses it and continue to do so, 2. It maybe slightly easier to handle therefore a bigger majority can set a better time with it.
 
TetsuKobura
Just because you now have a tune for your car doesn’t make you overcompetitive right off the bat. Everyone will be in the same situation where they have the ability to be even faster, or in some cases, far more stable, and at that point your line along with acceleration and deceleration will play a bigger role.
Click to expand...

Oh ok I get it. It's just that I thought that SPORT Mode was made to prove (more or less) drivers' skill in racing, so if the settings were left untouched, the skill part would rely entirely on the drivers' ability to race a car, not make a setup.
 
You do realize one-make Gr.3 / Gr.4 races are vastly different from actual Gr.3 / Gr.4 races, right? Fixed setups with virtually the same car are as equal as you can get, while in actual class races, aside from Gr.2, that’s far from the truth.

K32
Oh ok I get it. It's just that I thought that SPORT Mode was made to prove (more or less) drivers' skill in racing, so if the settings were left untouched, the skill part would rely entirely on the drivers' ability to race a car, not make a setup.
Click to expand...
While I understand that point, it doesn’t really make sense considering how much GT Sport is pushing this Sport Mode with the FIA championships (which honestly I don’t know if they’re ever starting). Name me one championship in professional racing where you’re not allowed to make a single change in your suspension, gearing, etc.
 
TetsuKobura
While I understand that point, it doesn’t really make sense considering how much GT Sport is pushing this Sport Mode with the FIA championships (which honestly I don’t know if they’re ever starting). Name me one championship in professional racing where you’re not allowed to make a single change in your suspension, gearing, etc.
Click to expand...

Not trying to prove you wrong, but here you go: :)
http://www.cikfia.com/newsroom/view/article/the-karting-academy-trophy-increases-its-internati.html

EDIT: Sorry, picture isn't the best (just noticed it). Look at the part where it says "identical kart"
 

Attachments

  • image.png
    image.png
    17.9 KB · Views: 30
Venster
They need to tweak the settings but leave them fixed
Click to expand...

K32
Oh ok I get it. It's just that I thought that SPORT Mode was made to prove (more or less) drivers' skill in racing, so if the settings were left untouched, the skill part would rely entirely on the drivers' ability to race a car, not make a setup.
Click to expand...

My point exactly - they should tweak the setups but leave them fixed. Make the cars more natural and balanced for EVERYONE.

Also by tweaking the setups they could make the cars more different in character. One could choose to go with more oversteer/understeer or fast corner vs fast straight, and still the laptime could be kept at the same level.
 
K32
Not trying to prove you wrong, but here you go: :)
http://www.cikfia.com/newsroom/view/article/the-karting-academy-trophy-increases-its-internati.html

EDIT: Sorry, picture isn't the best (just noticed it). Look at the part where it says "identical kart"
Click to expand...
Dont not have time to read... but are they factoring in driver weight/size as it relates to weight distribution/roll center and tire pressures?
Since they do not have suspension, the tires are the suspension, so, I would guess if everything is equal they would dictate tire pressures.
Since the drivers are approx. 80-100% addition to the weight of the cart, are they governing ballast, ballast location?
Since a 135lbs 4'10" driver is going to have a much better roll center than a 135lbs 5'-3" driver, are they mandating seat height/rake adjustments to ensure everyone has identical roll center/center of gravity?
Just curious how far it goes to ensure parity... especially in a rig where the driver nearly doubles the weight of the vehicle.
Honest questions... not trying to "pick a fight".
 
cleanLX
Dont not have time to read... but are they factoring in driver weight/size as it relates to weight distribution/roll center and tire pressures?
Since they do not have suspension, the tires are the suspension, so, I would guess if everything is equal they would dictate tire pressures.
Since the drivers are approx. 80-100% addition to the weight of the cart, are they governing ballast, ballast location?
Since a 135lbs 4'10" driver is going to have a much better roll center than a 135lbs 5'-3" driver, are they mandating seat height/rake adjustments to ensure everyone has identical roll center/center of gravity?
Just curious how far it goes to ensure parity... especially in a rig where the driver nearly doubles the weight of the vehicle.
Honest questions... not trying to "pick a fight".
Click to expand...

Long story short - all drivers use the same kart. No adjustments can be made to it, so it's all down to the skill, and now that you mention it, physical condition.

In terms of seat adjustment, you can only use different sized seats because not everyone is the same (obviously).

Tyre pressures are probably the only thing they can change, so that's where the equality starts to fade as well.
 
K32
Wouldn't that result in people making 'unbeatable' setups that vary the field even more?
Click to expand...

Back in GT6 I found a few "magic" tunes that knocked a couple seconds off my seasonal TT's. Give an "S" driver that tune and us mere mortals will see the clock run out before the final lap is completed. So I don't like the idea.
 
I always felt locked setups were the way for the driver to differentiate himself.

Bad understeer... OK. Let's find out who best deals with it.

Bad oversteer..? Let's find out who best deals with it.

Less than ideal diff? Rinse and repeat.

Can't drive yourself out of trouble..? Stick to tuner rooms.

But in real life, real drivers often drive cars (and race cars) that, to be fast, can't always be set up so they 'feel' perfect for the driver. Great drivers adjust. Poor drivers struggle. IMHO, driving GT6 cars in stock form was my favorite form of competition (almost my only, as wasting time doing 'gamer' adjustments to tuning that had little relation to how the issue would be solved IRL never appealed to me). The community of stock tune drivers was, in my experience, the cleanest and most skilled set of chaps I ever played with.
 
PD need to give each car a specific BoP per-circuit and a specific fixed setup per-circuit. It's the only way to maintain some sort of balance across every track while also letting each car perform as well as it can on each track. The way it is now with one global BoP and one global setup for each car is ineffective and will continue to become more untenable as tracks and cars are added over GTS's lifespan.
 
tofuhero
PD need to give each car a specific BoP per-circuit and a specific fixed setup per-circuit. It's the only way to maintain some sort of balance across every track while also letting each car perform as well as it can on each track. The way it is now with one global BoP and one global setup for each car is ineffective and will continue to become more untenable as tracks and cars are added over GTS's lifespan.
Click to expand...

I really hate to inject reality into this discussion, but when have you ever seen BoP adjusted to perfection IRL? BoP has always been a game of whackamole, often political rather than actual, and generally only adjusted only once a season, or sometimes after a few races. But BoP in the real world isn't adjusted for every race, every set of conditions, every track. Why anyone wants this in a game is beyond me...

If you want to race perfect BoP, race stock setup one makes. Perfect!

But if you want to race different car grids, be prepared to accept the limitations on BoP that affect even real racers...
 
simsimsheree
I really hate to inject reality into this discussion, but when have you ever seen BoP adjusted to perfection IRL? BoP has always been a game of whackamole, often political rather than actual, and generally only adjusted only once a season, or sometimes after a few races. But BoP in the real world isn't adjusted for every race, every set of conditions, every track. Why anyone wants this in a game is beyond me...

If you want to race perfect BoP, race stock setup one makes. Perfect!

But if you want to race different car grids, be prepared to accept the limitations on BoP that affect even real racers...
Click to expand...

Who said anything about perfection? We're fairly far from perfection right now, it's just pushing deck chairs around. Applying a different BoP to each track would compensate for large performance gaps on specific tracks, while fixed tuning setups per track would make sure specific cars don't underperform due to being stuck with one global tuning for all tracks.

The WEC announced last year that they were going to apply a different BoP to each race using an algorithm based on fastest lap times. Maybe if that goes well the FIA should hand that over to PD.
 

Latest Posts

Back