Why does PD have default rear toe out?

  • Thread starter Thread starter David_Bohm
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David_Bohm

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David_Bohm
Forgive me if this has been discussed already, but I find it curious that every car defaults with rear toe out. Every book on handling and car dynamics I've read states this is rarely the case in the real world. Especially in high powered cars. Rear toe out encourages oversteer, especially on power.

Is that why? I suppose the driving is more accessible in an oversteering state rather than the car understeering.

or is PD trying to throw us a curve?
 
Rear toe reduces oversteer and induces understeer. GT games have always been on the side of understeer to prevent spinning out.
 
David_Bohm
Ha! got it. That's totally counter intuitive to me. I wonder if it's the opposite in Forza?

Thread closed. Ha.
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How's it counter intuitive? The PC sims (GTR, GTR2, GT Legends, rFactor, Race series, etc etc) all do it this way as well.
 
I just said it's counter intuitive to ME.

It's not that way in Forza. In Forza, toe-in is described in negative degrees.
 
David_Bohm
Good lord you are easily provoked.
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Not at all.

David_Bohm
Forza 3, man. Forza 3. I'm looking at the alignment screen right now.
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In other words a game I've never had the opportunity to do anything in as nobody I know has a 360 with a hard drive.

That said, look what I found. Key point: Toe section.

above link
Toe is the tilted angle of the wheels when viewed from above the car. Positive toe moves the fronts of the wheels inward together, while negative toe has the fronts of the wheels pointed outward, away from each other.
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Front edges closer = toe in, rear edges closer = toe out. Which means you've been doing toe wrong. Or an apparently otherwise well written guide is completely wrong and Forza does it backwards. Which, based on FM2, it doesn't.
 
I've yet to see an alignment machine that reads toe-in in negative numbers.

GT5 uses a bit of rear toe-in for rear-end stability. Most manufacturers actually do this, but the exact amount varies. More modern cars have no static toe, but are designed so that under load, the rear bushings deflect to give more toe-in when cornering.

Of course, unless you know the exact alignment specs and amount, replicating this in GT5 is problematic.
 
Well, I'll admit I'm easily provoked to set the record straight. I see this bickering stuff too often on forums and it's frustrating...

I know how toe in and toe out works regarding dynamics. I'm not even challenging how the professional world describes it, whether the orientation is positive or negative. Nor do I challenge how a ton of PC games choose to describe it.

I started a discussion that doesn't need to exist because I simply misinterpreted the way GT5 considers vehicle toe. The only reason I think of toe in as a negative value is because of Forza 3.

Arguing how some third-party online tuning guide describes the issue isn't relevant. This picture from Forza 3 is:

forza3toe.jpg




That's all. No need to pound me into a pulp like I've offended your sensibilities.
 
Tomayto Tohmato. All that really matters is the effects of toe. Let's just agree to call it toe-in and toe-out? :lol:
 
To get back on subject, personally i dont see any reason to have +0.20 in ANY cars.. I usually run with less than 5 on the rear, & on FWD/4WD i usually have more than -0.10.. ? ( G25, Simulator. No assists except ABS1 )

Any1 that can confirm im doing sumtin right ? q: Or even better, learn me sumtin ^^ ? .. ( 6:28 on nordschleife, in HKS EVO. Racing Soft tires lasts around 2 rounds, before the car is gettin too bad to drive. )
 

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