Why I Wish Fiat would return to the U.S.

[Tornado]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Fiat Bravo launch[/FONT] [SIZE=-1]

Fiat released the first details of its new Bravo in last October. Now the car goes on sale in Europe and the full specifications are available.

The new Bravo is not a clean-sheet design but a development from the outgoing Stilo platform. Stilo was born in late 2001 with high expectation. Fiat originally planned to produce it for 7 years, that means replacement would not have arrived until late 2008. Unfortunately, the market reception was poor and sales continued to slide. Fiat had no alternative but to replace it earlier. However, to claw back the investment it made in Stilo, Fiat utilized its platform and developed it into new Bravo. Suspensions continues to be strut up front and torsion beam at the rear. The wheelbase remains unchanged at 2600mm, a little short by today's standard. Length and width have grown a little from Stilo. While the 1498 mm height is tall, it is not as tall as the 5-door Stilo.

[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Fiat sets the sales target at a conservative 120,000 units a year. This is made possible by the lower development costs, as the development took only 18 months from specification freeze to market launch. The low target is set also because there is no 3-door version will be offered. Unless Fiat can reach a deal to produce it in China, the Bravo is likely to be limited to 5-door hatchback form.

[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]However, this 5-door looks handsome, thanks to a sleek nose and soft wedge profile. At the back, its tailgate and lights remind you the original Bravo (1995-2001). Inside, the dashboard and console design looks quite sporty. Materials and build quality has taken a step forward but don't expect it to match the pricier Volkswagen Golf. The driving position has full range of adjustment to accommodate drivers from 1.5 to 2 meters tall. Fiat also claims it is the only car in the class that can accommodate 184 cm tall passengers at the back behind front passengers of the same height, believe or not. Better still, the boot can swallow 400 liters of luggage.

[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]According to Fiat, the chassis of Bravo has a class-leading torsional rigidity of 21,300 Nm/degree. The suspension geometry, springs and dampers have been retuned. Stiffer anti-roll bars have been employed. The wishbones are now made of stamped steel instead of cast iron to reduce unsprung weight. Dual-path strut blocks and new hydraulic bushings improve NVH suppression. Accompany with a 20 mm wider track, the Bravo should cure the poor handling and ride of its predecessor.

At launch, there are 3 engines available. The entry level is a 90hp 1.4-liter 16V petrol detuned from Grande Punto. Then there are a couple of 1.9-liter Multijet turbo diesel, rated at 120hp for 8V and 150hp for 16V. All three are existing engines from Fiat's parts pool. Later this year will come a new T-JET 1.4-liter turbo petrol, which will produce 120hp and 150hp in different state of tune. To deliver higher mpg and lower CO2 emission, Fiat is not going to offer bigger capacity petrol engines to the Bravo.[/SIZE]

Linky.

Will Fiat return to the U.S. anytime soon? The hell if I know, but considering the large amount of positive press the new Fiats (Panda 100, Grande Punto) makes me want them to sometime soon. It even has enough power to concievably compete with the lower Rabbits.

 

[Scaff]

I have to agree that Fiat have come on leaps and bounds over the last few years in terms of the products. My wife had an old Fiat Cinquecento and its was a great little car, no power at all, but so much fun to drive.

The '90s were not a good time for Fiat, but the New Punto I got a chance to drive recently when I was in Aberdeen with work. I had one for the week as a hire car and not only was it very well built and a nice little car to drive, but it looks great, particularly the front end.

The main thing that still lets them down in the UK is the very patchy nature of the dealer network, I was fortunate enough to have trained my local dealership a number of times over the years, as such I always got good service. I am not however convinced that's the standard state of affairs for most customers.

Fingers crossed as well that they pull off the new 500 as well, the concept looks good.

However all is still not a bed of roses, they still manage to churn out these as well...

..the Sedici, which is Italian for 16 (4x4 = 16, get it, no its a rubbish name) and a complete heap.

Still Fiat have always been better at the smaller stuff.


Regards

Scaff

 

[YSSMAN]

I'd be up for the Punto, Bravo, Panda, and 500 to come to America. Given that the market for small cars is on a upswing, whats to say that FIAT wouldn't do marginally well here in the US? The important thing is that the cars look great, perform moderately well, and is fairly cheap (or at least thats how I understand it).

...But I doubt FIAT will do anything until their Alfa Romeo subsidiary gains a foothold, and even then, much of their decision may depend on whether or not Peugeot or Citroen decide to enter the market.

 

[95GTIVR6]

That last FIAT pictured is the same thing as a Suzuki SX4 here in the states. Ive driven one and to my suprise it was quite a well manufactured car. It needed a little more power but im sure that has a future because of the SX4's appearance in WRC soon.

 

[TopHat]

I think it looks better as a FIAT tbh.

 

[livemusic]

This one looks nice, I wish it would come over here if they release it. Didn't like the Bravo though, nor the new Punto.

 

[SagarisGTB]

Feller in eine tiene

Thats probably not right spelling, i dont speak german, but that is what they say

The new Fiats are alot better than the old ones though, when Italian cars were unreliable, slow and died in the cold. (though, 20 years ago, anything that wasnt german probably wasnt any good).

Italy's car company is on the rise. The Panda and Grande Punto are good little cars, and this Bravo looks promising. Fiat only makes good small cars though. I dont think coming to the US would be successful with only compacts and smaller. They would need a solid mid-size car atleast. And Canada? It's too cold here for Fiats.

 

[thebtspecial]

I'm not big on hatchbacks, but the Punto and Bravo look very nice. Especially the Punto!

 

[harrytuttle]

The timing couldn't be better for Fiat to cross back over. Alfa's on it's way, Ferrari has high visibility and is doing quite well in sales. Compact cars (Fit, Yaris, etc.) are becoming worthwhile purchases, for multiple reasons. The new Fiats ("16" aside) look good, too, and have much more style that anything Japanese or American. The only hurdle is the "rustbucket" image all of Italy still carries. It may be undeserved these days, but that's the Americans' last image of them. I actually hope they try. If anything, it will add some decent style to American traffic jams.

 

[Jim Prower]

Well, who do you think owns Alfa Romeo?

if Alfa does well, We might see a Fiat or two over, as well

 

[harrytuttle]

Well, who do you think owns Alfa Romeo?

if Alfa does well, We might see a Fiat or two over, as well

I was well aware of that, but given that Fiat (the parent company) had never mentioned moving either Fiat or Lancer brands to the US before, it seems foolish that they didn't think of moving everything over all at once.

 

[Tornado]

I was well aware of that, but given that Fiat (the parent company) had never mentioned moving either Fiat or Lancer brands to the US before, it seems foolish that they didn't think of moving everything over all at once.

Lancia is still around? Wierd!

I've never found anything so amazing than that a car company that was so successful in racing only 10 years ago is so inept at making those race wins mean anything to the car buying public. For that, Lancia is awesome. Hell, being the rally gods for 20 years probably hurt Lancia more than helped, and for all of it's problems, I don't think even Ford could pull that off.

 

[Poverty]

You guys can have the fiats. They are cheap motoring, but you get what you pay for, and hence alot of people dont have any faith in the brand at all.

The 500 concept looks cool though.

 

[Scaff]

You guys can have the fiats. They are cheap motoring, but you get what you pay for, and hence alot of people dont have any faith in the brand at all.

The 500 concept looks cool though.

A lot more people are having a lot more faith in the brand of late (the dealer network is the problem these days, rather than the product itself), as I mentioned earlier I used a New Punto for a week up in Aberdeen and it was an excellent little car, the level of interior quality is a major move forward (no its not up to VW standard, but then its a lot cheaper). My only minor gripe with the car would be that the brakes are over-servo'd and as such were too snatchy at low speed.

As for not a lot of people having faith in Fiat, well in 2006 they obtained a larger market share in the UK than Seat (Fiat 2.51% vs Seat 1.40%) and Skoda (1.65%). They are also growing significantly as a brand again, with a year on year UK market share increase of 64.20% over 2005 sales (vs 15.50% for Seat and 2.49% for Skoda). In fact in terms of a year on year change no other marque in the UK grew its market share by as much as Fiat did.

Source for all figures - Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT).

Regards

Scaff

 

[harrytuttle]

I was well aware of that, but given that Fiat (the parent company) had never mentioned moving either Fiat or Lancer brands to the US before, it seems foolish that they didn't think of moving everything over all at once.

Lancia is still around? Wierd!

I've never found anything so amazing than that a car company that was so successful in racing only 10 years ago is so inept at making those race wins mean anything to the car buying public. For that, Lancia is awesome. Hell, being the rally gods for 20 years probably hurt Lancia more than helped, and for all of it's problems, I don't think even Ford could pull that off.

Uh, yes, but just barely, which is why I totally bombed the spelling.

I think all of Fiat SPa suffered from inane management over the past 20 years. Ferrari survived because...well, it's Ferrari. Alfa suffered quite a bit, from what I understand, despite having some rather attractive cars. Fiat floundered around because someone had to produce cheap Italian cars. The low-end diesels from both Fiat & Alfa did well, I think. Lancia seemed to fall apart because it simply had nothing going for it once the Integrale finished its run: no diesel, ugly cars, and generally nothing unique to offer.

Come to think of it, unless Lancia resurrects something like the Integrale (maybe a conservative-suit Brera), Fiat SPa can forget the calculus-inspired brand altogether.

 

[Scaff]

Uh, yes, but just barely, which is why I totally bombed the spelling.

I think all of Fiat SPa suffered from inane management over the past 20 years. Ferrari survived because...well, it's Ferrari. Alfa suffered quite a bit, from what I understand, despite having some rather attractive cars. Fiat floundered around because someone had to produce cheap Italian cars. The low-end diesels from both Fiat & Alfa did well, I think. Lancia seemed to fall apart because it simply had nothing going for it once the Integrale finished its run: no diesel, ugly cars, and generally nothing unique to offer.

Come to think of it, unless Lancia resurrects something like the Integrale (maybe a conservative-suit Brera), Fiat SPa can forget the calculus-inspired brand altogether.

In a strangely perverse way you are right that Lancia's rally success did play a part in its downfall in certain markets. It made people buy the cars, that unfortunately lead to them actually experiencing the truly appalling build quality, particularly the tissue paper thin body panels (every one of which was a rust magnet), electrical systems with a mind of their own and dealers who simply did not care.

These factors did for Lancia in the UK and a few other markets, that said Lancia still does well this day in southern Europe. As far as a new Intergrale goes, we may have to wait a while, but the Delta HPE concept is rumoured to be heading Lancia's relaunch in a few markets.

Unfortunately it does have the Lancia grill, which I personally find cheap and nasty looking (and yes it is used on current production models and looks just as bad in the metal).

Regards

Scaff

 

[a112]

I quite like the new Bravo,and the 500.
Anyway,i have one question,the US people always say that fiat makes unreliable cars.I really don't know about your models,but my father has Uno,and my brother has 3 Unos.My family had Ritmo/Strada and with all that cars not much problems.My father's Uno traveled over 300 000 km with first 1000cc FIRE engine,we installed another engine for cheap,and it's running well around 100 000 km already.We haven't had any big problems with the car,only regular maintaince.The cars easly pass Ecologicall Test for registration in my country.
The parts are really cheap here,beacuse we are close to Italy,anyway,really reliable cars to have in Croatia if you ask me.AFAIK only Fiat that was massive sold to the US was X1/9,did you maybe had bad expirience with X1/9 and beacuse of that saying that all fiat's are unreliable?
Cheers.

 

[1X83Z]

Lancia is still around? Wierd!

Weirder still.

 

[Metar]

I quite like the new Bravo,and the 500.
Anyway,i have one question,the US people always say that fiat makes unreliable cars.I really don't know about your models,but my father has Uno,and my brother has 3 Unos.My family had Ritmo/Strada and with all that cars not much problems.My father's Uno traveled over 300 000 km with first 1000cc FIRE engine,we installed another engine for cheap,and it's running well around 100 000 km already.We haven't had any big problems with the car,only regular maintaince.The cars easly pass Ecologicall Test for registration in my country.
The parts are really cheap here,beacuse we are close to Italy,anyway,really reliable cars to have in Croatia if you ask me.AFAIK only Fiat that was massive sold to the US was X1/9,did you maybe had bad expirience with X1/9 and beacuse of that saying that all fiat's are unreliable?
Cheers.

We had a Fiat Uno ourselves for six years back when I was a little snot. We were the 3rd owners - the car drove so reliable that, 5 years after we sold it, we got a chance to drive it again - and apart from massive amounts of dust everywhere, it was still the same car.
Plus, that Uno Turbo was supposed to be quite a punchy hot-hatch...

Fiats, in Israel, have less of a rust-bucket reputation. Perhaps it's the hot weather here - or, it was the Punto (from the first generation) which saved them. Leasing-companies, which are the majority (60%) of Israel's car-market (sad, but true), embraced this car, especially the 2nd generation (with the pointy taillights) - which means, the car was bought by many, and since the quality was pretty good and reliability wasn't much of a problem (except the problem all european cars have here - heating-problems. German cars suffer most from it), people forgot about the rust-problems that were supposed to exist ~20 years earlier.
Alfa Romeo, on the other hand, still has the rusty image from the '80s, when the Alfa Sud was sold - those, as they say here, came equipped with rust from the factory. I guess that image has something behind it - there's a reason Alfa Spyders reach the prices of Ferraris around here, since original, rust-free parts are possibly rarer than the Daimler Motor Carriages. And since only Alfa-nuts buy Alfa Romeos (because, apart from looking god-like and having relatively good handling, they're overpriced - and have the rustbucket image), they never had a chance to shake that image off. Perhaps, if they wouldn't cost as much as a BMW 3-series... Though, supposedly, they're supposed to be about as good - but those who have the money, would rather spend it on that 3-series they dreamed about rather than a beauty with the reputation of a rusty Italian.

I dunno - I always had a special place for the Italians and French, even though their (Citroen, Alfa Romeo) image is very low...


Though, we get the new Fiats as well - and I think they're wonderful. Not the Sedici, since I generally hate SUVs - but it's great to see them running a full line again. Being a great fan of the old Cinquecento, it's great to see them return to a similar styling...

 

[harrytuttle]

Whoof. There's no part of that that's pretty. If I didn't know better, I'd expect a Chery badge on the front. Okay, so Lancia they can leave behind...

 

[Corsaphobic]

It looks like Fiat are on a roll again. The MKII Panda, The pretty Grande Punto, the new 500, and the Bravo should be a winner too if it drives well and it's screwed together properly.

Everyone says Fiat's are unreliable rust buckets, which may be true for some earlier cars, but a while ago, my father had a 1992 Uno 45 'Spark'. It once had a coolant leak (needed new water pump), it needed a new gearbox after reverse became unselectable, and the cambelt snapped, but in the three years in our household, it started every morning with little compaint, it had a lot of room inside for it's size, the willing little engine stood up to my father's rather, ahem, forgetful way with car maintenance, and... well, it just had character. Lots of it. We were quite sad to see it go actually.

And 'character' is what now sums up small Fiats to me, and perhaps a lot of other people. It may not be the quickest car but the engine is eager, the electrics might not be briliiant, but the mechanical bits will soldier on. You get the hand of the gearbox soon enough too. And in a sea of Vauxhall Corsas, it's even a bit different too.

This firm has a knack at making crackling little cars, which have clearly never been all that popular in America, but with everyone twittering on about climate change and fuel economy, you never know...

 

[YSSMAN]

^ Definately a +1 for you my friend. Such wonderful posts from a new member, I love it!

And 'character' is what now sums up small Fiats to me, and perhaps a lot of other people. It may not be the quickest car but the engine is eager, the electrics might not be briliiant, but the mechanical bits will soldier on. You get the hand of the gearbox soon enough too. And in a sea of Vauxhall Corsas, it's even a bit different too.

Character, at least in my opinion, is what makes so many small cars so great. Yes they may lack the solidarity of a GMT900 Pickup, the relative "refinement" of a Toyota product, or the reliability of your Grandmother's Buick. But thats what makes them so great...

...As Top Gear so often points out, you can never truely be a car enthusiest until you've owned an Alfa Romeo, and to some extent I think that could be passed down (or is it up?) to their owners, FIAT. They sound like those quirky cars that so many people buy into just because they are, and to me, it sounds like fun.

This firm has a knack at making crackling little cars, which have clearly never been all that popular in America, but with everyone twittering on about climate change and fuel economy, you never know...

A lot of companies have been toying with the idea of coming to America, but FIAT has never really been on the list at any point in which I can recall. Yes, their subsidary Alfa Romeo is suposed to be here in (callendar year) 2008, but I have yet to year of plans for FIAT models. However it doesn't seem like too far of a stretch to get a few select models imported alongside the Berera, 8C, 159, etc... Maybe the Panda and Punto? We'll see...

On a more personal note, I've been more anxcious to see whether or not the big French companies decide to come to the US or not. There was a story a few months ago about Citroen wanting to make the jump, which I would love to see happen, but moreso I would want Renault first.