Why is GT7 treating all gearboxes like automatics?

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km666

km666

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Have just noticed that the game is now blocking downshifts on all cars, I'd noticed it would do something with a similar end result where certain cars would 'stall' if you smashed the gears down causing an overrev scenario (the Demon swapped GTO for one), but now simply prevents you downshifting like a crappy automatic would in manual mode in all cars, regardless of if fitted with a slushmatic or not.
 
km666
Have just noticed that the game is now blocking downshifts on all cars
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Covered in our last update article nearly a month ago:
Although there are only four items in the patch notes, there’s one that’s particularly interesting and has global effects. Listed under “physics simulation model”, the unassuming line states that players who opt to shift gears manually will have a downshift input ignored if it’s at “extremely high” engine speed.

This is a technique often used in some time trial events as — depending on the vehicle used — rapidly shuffling down the ‘box while the engine screams can assist with deceleration, even though it sounds absolutely awful. We’ve run a quick couple of tests and, while you can still over-rev the engine a little, on paddles at least it does seem to curb the ability to repeatedly downshift.
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www.gtplanet.net

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km666
Have just noticed that the game is now blocking downshifts on all cars, I'd noticed it would do something with a similar end result where certain cars would 'stall' if you smashed the gears down causing an overrev scenario (the Demon swapped GTO for one), but now simply prevents you downshifting like a crappy automatic would in manual mode in all cars, regardless of if fitted with a slushmatic or not.
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Tried my Logitech manual shifter for the first time since the update. Down shifting is totally broken now. When you clutch in and shift down the revs stay at 1000 even after you let the clutch out until you hit the gas. Basically downshifting puts the rpm at an idle so rev matching is not possible anymore.
 
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eran0004
It isn't. It's preventing you from shifting down if the engine speed is too high.

The reason why they are doing that is likely because some players deliberately overrevved the engine to get additional engine braking.
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My old Honda used to love a bit of overrev action. I've never known a manual gearbox to have overrev protection. The only thing I've ever noticed IRL with a manual is some BMWs will kick the lever out of gear if you're about to crunch the synchro.

Famine
Covered in our last update article nearly a month ago:


www.gtplanet.net

Surprise Gran Turismo 7 Update Brings Bugfixes and Power Pack Rebalancing

Somewhat unexpectedly, Polyphony Digital has pushed out a second update in exactly a week for Gran Turismo 7, with 1.66 bringing a small list of changes that attend to a handful of issues. The update comes in at just under 415MB on PlayStation 4 and a bit over 1GB on PlayStation 5, likely thanks
www.gtplanet.net www.gtplanet.net
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Ahhh I did have a look with the search function but didn't find that. I only noticed it because I'd only really do it with Hondas and haven't used one in the game for a while.

Mumster
Tried my Logitech manual shifter for the first time since the update. Down shifting is totally broken now. When you clutch in and shift down the revs stay at 1000 even after you let the clutch out until you hit the gas. Basically downshifting puts the rpm at an idle so rev matching is not possible anymore.
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Does it still let you blip the throttle on downshifts?
 
I'm still cussing this update. I wasn't 'abusive' with the shifts, if they toned this down by about 10-20%, I would be back in action.
Slowly retraining my shifting, but, damn, it has cost me a few great laps. :banghead:
 
km666
Does it still let you blip the throttle on downshifts?
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It allows it if you are not over the maximum speed for the gear. If you change gears over that speed the rpm drops to idle till you get to whatever the maximum speed for the gear is then it slams itself into gear at max rpm all the while the display showing the lower gear as if you changed. When it finally slams itself into gear it affects the handling causing the drive tires to completely lose grip. They obviously didn’t consider H-shifter users.
 
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eran0004
You may have loved it but your car didn't.

The game is preventing the player from completing the shift, not simulating a gearbox overrev protection.
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Unlike VWs where one little overrev lunches the delicate engines Hondas can take being bounced off the limiter and come back begging for more.
 
fastone371
I didn't know over revving while downshifting to aid rotation was a skill.
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Yep - Here it's explained with motorcycles



And here is Nelson Piquet doing it. They say it's all braking, but obviously, he has to downshift into the corner as well...voila, backing it in.

 
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km666
Unlike VWs where one little overrev lunches the delicate engines Hondas can take being bounced off the limiter and come back begging for more.
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The rev limiter cuts engine power (fuel or spark) and as such it only prevents overrevving the engine under its own power. The rev limiter does not stop you from overrevving the engine by shifting down too early, so there's no such thing as "bouncing off the limiter" if you attempt to do that. Instead what will happen is that you overspeed the engine, causing excessive wear and tear, potentially overstressing its components and sending excessive engine braking torque down the drivetrain, risking damage to it or causing your driven wheels to slip, losing traction and in worst case completely losing control of your car.

So you may have loved overspeeding your Honda's engine, but your Honda did not.
 
Voodoovaj
Yep - Here it's explained with motorcycles



And here is Nelson Piquet doing it. They say it's all braking, but obviously, he has to downshift into the corner as well...voila, backing it in.

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OK, I watched both videos and nowhere did they mention over revving the engine on downshift. You can still downshift in game, you just have to do it in a real life like manner in which it wouldn't cause engine damage. Sprint car guys "back it in" every lap and they dont even have transmissions.
 
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fastone371
OK, I watched both videos and nowhere did they mention over revving the engine on downshift.
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Bikes have slipper clutches to reduce wheel hop into the corners (which you see in the motard video), because "over revving" engine braking is key to entering the corner. I put the over "revving" in quotes because the rev limiters stop over revving and damaging the engine. The slipper clutch saves the gearbox.

You said...
fastone371
I didn't know over revving while downshifting to aid rotation was a skill.
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...and I showed you that it was. Now you know.
 
fastone371
I didn't know over revving while downshifting to aid rotation was a skill.
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engine braking and done properly is great advantage. itll throw the nose down and help you rotate and allow quicker decel. that car in my profile pic i do it daily, just not at high revs. even at street drive rpms and downshifting an old ford C4 trans will help when needed. saved me once from rear ending a dude who skidded to a stop dodging a deer.

benjoi84
I wouldn't go that far
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i just did lol
 
flair1111
engine braking and done properly is great advantage. itll throw the nose down and help you rotate and allow quicker decel. that car in my profile pic i do it daily, just not at high revs. even at street drive rpms and downshifting an old ford C4 trans will help when needed. saved me once from rear ending a dude who skidded to a stop dodging a deer.


i just did lol
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I absolutely agree that reducing grip at the rear will induce rotation. What I was referring to was the players that were downshifting into first at over 100mph that can no longer be done. I found out I was guilty of it myself.
 
fastone371
I absolutely agree that reducing grip at the rear will induce rotation. What I was referring to was the players that were downshifting into first at over 100mph that can no longer be done. I found out I was guilty of it myself.
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ahh i understand now. yep thats a little much. i wonder if they might add a degree of realism later to where if you do that it would kill your trans or cause massive damage? id like to see that more so than just preventing it to a degree as of now.
 
AmyUD06
Try downshifting from 5th to 2nd at 75mph in your Legacy and let us know how it goes.
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Lol what's that got to do with Hondas? Besides which 2nd was good for about 70mph without hitting the redline anyway.
 
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Voodoovaj
Bikes have slipper clutches to reduce wheel hop into the corners (which you see in the motard video), because "over revving" engine braking is key to entering the corner. I put the over "revving" in quotes because the rev limiters stop over revving and damaging the engine. The slipper clutch saves the gearbox.

You said...

...and I showed you that it was. Now you know.
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The rev limiter does not prevent overrevving the engine while engine braking. The rev limiter cuts fuel or spark to prevent the engine from overspeeding under its own power. With the bikes you mention it would be the slipper clutch that prevents the overspeeding, not the rev limiter.
 
eran0004
The rev limiter cuts engine power (fuel or spark) and as such it only prevents overrevving the engine under its own power. The rev limiter does not stop you from overrevving the engine by shifting down too early, so there's no such thing as "bouncing off the limiter" if you attempt to do that. Instead what will happen is that you overspeed the engine, causing excessive wear and tear, potentially overstressing its components and sending excessive engine braking torque down the drivetrain, risking damage to it or causing your driven wheels to slip, losing traction and in worst case completely losing control of your car.

So you may have loved overspeeding your Honda's engine, but your Honda did not.
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I'm not sure why you and others are assuming an extreme overrev scenario, it'd be around 500-1000rpm per downshift, which on a lot of rev happy motors would represent the new limiter ceiling that a remap/chip/standalone would unlock anyway. Spinning a H22 upto 8000rpm isn't overstressing anything. The gearbox would call it a day long before the engine does.

The whole idea is extra engine braking. As I said, some motors can handle it a few extra rpms, some can't. Hell some cars will lock the axle under engine braking at mild revs, TVRs and Fords used to.
 
km666
I'm not sure why you and others are assuming an extreme overrev scenario,
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I'm not sure why you think it's an extreme overrev scenario. You claimed that your car loved to be oversped, but that's false. Overspeeding your engine does nothing good to your car in any way, not even if it's just slightly above the rev limit.
km666
it'd be around 500-1000rpm per downshift, which on a lot of rev happy motors would represent the new limiter ceiling that a remap/chip/standalone would unlock anyway. Spinning a H22 upto 8000rpm isn't overstressing anything.
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Centripetal force is proportional to the square of the angular velocity. Going from 7000 rpm to 8000 rpm increases the stresses by 30%. Material fatigue in steel is a function of stress and the number of cycles – the higher the stress, the fewer cycles it can handle.

Material failure is stochastic (can be described by random probability distribution). If the engineers picked 7000 rpm as the redline they knew they had to design the components so that they would have a certain safety margin against failure over the design life of that engine given the stresses at 7000 rpm and the number of cycles the engine was thought to have at that speed over its design life.

So when you drive your engine at a higher speed than it's designed for you are increasing the probability of failure and reducing the lifespan of the engine.

Driving the engine at high speeds below the rev limiter for extended periods of time will also reduce its lifespan and increase the probability of failure if you exceed the number of cycles that the engine was designed to have at those speeds. Redlining the engine for a few seconds is safe. Redlining for a minute might be ok if the engine and the oil is in good condition. Redlining the engine for an hour is not a good idea. Even if the engine survives that you might want to have it replaced afterwards.

So this idea that your car loved to be overrevved is ridiculous. Overrevving an engine does nothing good for the car, rather the opposite.
km666
The gearbox would call it a day long before the engine does.
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Glad to see you've come to accept the part about how it could damage your drivetrain.
 
This may sound strange, but engaging a manual transmission assumes you're a good driver or a beginner, but strive for realism. So, I think it would be better to leave the system as is, but increase engine wear when you overrev.
 
eran0004
The rev limiter does not prevent overrevving the engine while engine braking. The rev limiter cuts fuel or spark to prevent the engine from overspeeding under its own power. With the bikes you mention it would be the slipper clutch that prevents the overspeeding, not the rev limiter.
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It's both. I know, because I've done it ;)
 
I am really happy with this update that is stopping that unreal behavior.

Considering that I am used to do the Heel & Toe downshifting in real life, for me it is obvious that the lower gear has to enter at the best engine rpm with a smoother act that has also the purpose to stress as less as possible all the mechanic parts.

I was really astonished watching replays where people were using the downshift as a sort of parachute to decelerate in a desperate way, and completely out from the reality.

For me this is a further step going to the "Real Driving Simulator".
 
I don’t understand why people complaining about this… downshifting while your rev is very high is just taking a risk to blow up the engine. And the new feature prevent you from that.

IRL if you are lucky, the clutch will just disappear and if you’re unlucky (or having a racing clutch) the pistons will probably kiss some valves…
 
eran0004
What kind of rev limiter do you have?
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Whatever was built in by Suzuki. It was a bit of an aggressive downshift (some say near crash) :D

Remember, the front brake and throttle are on the same bar. I managed to pull the lever and pin the throttle for a moment.
 
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