Why the big difference in tuned cars vs upgrades?

Discussion in 'GT6 Tuning' started by VetteZR1, Apr 6, 2015.

  1. VetteZR1

    VetteZR1

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    I've been a tuning fan for a while now and can't get over the fact that tuned cars are so much different than what you get when you upgrade to adjustable suspension, LSD, and transmission. The numbers aren't even close to what you get when tuned up. Tuned cars are so much fun to drive why don't they get a little closer to tuned numbers out of the box so non-tuners can get more pleasure out of driving? They do have tuners at PD don't they? I know they try to find middle ground because people drive different, but I haven't found a Hami, Praiano, Exeter, or Ridox tune that hasn't made me better.
     
  2. Otaliema

    Otaliema

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    The middle ground setups are the racing soft, hard and rally suspension options they have. The fully customizable option comes at basically factory default so too say. At PD they also won't game their own game like we will with set ups using the game physics to our advantage to make car grip or slip as needed.
     
  3. ALB123

    ALB123

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    @VetteZR1 I'm not sure that I completely understand your question. Are you saying "Why are the base cars that we purchase from the dealership so poor performing compared to the same car that has just had a Praiano (for example) tune applied?" If that is what you mean, the answer is quite obvious. The cars purchased from the dealership are supposed to represent a completely stock version of the car - sort of. I don't think that they truly represent every car accurately. For instance, just about every single street car comes with dampers set to 1/1 & 1/1 which can no way represent the real dampers of those cars, even in its stock configuration. How could every car come with dampers set to their softest setting? But, that allows for us to make adjustments for improvement. However, maybe I have totally misunderstood your question and my response is completely irrelevant. :eek:
     
  4. VetteZR1

    VetteZR1

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    I now understand they are representing a stock set up when you buy the adjustable suspension. I guess the question should be if you aren't a tuner are you better off with the hard or soft suspension at 1/4 the price. If you don't touch the adjustable suspension is it better or worse than a hard or soft suspension? The same goes for the LSD, if you buy it, but don't touch it is there any improvement? Transmission upgrade usually gives you more gears so I get that.
     
  5. DolHaus

    DolHaus

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    Hard/soft fixed suspension will change the springs rates and stiffen the dampers/ARBs slightly, this will change the handling characteristics of the car, which one is best for you depends on the car and your driving style, testing them is the only way to know.
    -Useful tip for testing without buying: Take the car to the track, buy both from the tuning screen and then take them for a spin. Decide which you like better then turn off the console without leaving the track, the game won't have saved any progress so when you restart you won't have spent the cash or bought either, now you can buy your preferred setup without having to pay for the other

    The full custom suspension when fitted uses the cars standard spring rates and sets the dampers/ARBs to 3 rather than 1 (a little bit stiffer) and lowers the ride height slightly, because the spring rates haven't changed the handling characteristics will remain more or less the same (a little more stable/predictable than stock perhaps).

    The full custom LSD has default settings when fitted (10/40/20) this will change how the car performs but the change is not necessarily for the better, this will require some tuning to get gains from so unless you are planning on tuning it then I wouldn't bother
     
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  6. Otaliema

    Otaliema

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    Just have to quit the game actually no need to turn off at least that's been my experience. My son had quit my game several times from the track on arcade mode and I've lost the settings each time.
    But thsts a great idea to save credits.

    A note tuning the LSD is very easy and you can gain more speed in most cars from that then anything other then suspension for tuning set up.
     
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  7. ALB123

    ALB123

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    Hmm.. I don't know if I would say it's easy. I will admit that I have not really spent a significant amount of time trying to figure out how to tune my LSD properly, but I have tried on a few occasions and I was always dissatisfied with the results. Perhaps I am just an idiot! :lol: :dunce: The only setting that I feel comfortable tweaking would be the Decel setting. The other two? I am not comfortable setting at all. :boggled: :(
     
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  8. DolHaus

    DolHaus

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    As a tuning part the LSD is of course very useful but as a bolt on part there aren't really any gains to be found unless the stock diff is a complete mess, I believe that's what the OP was asking.

    Drop me a message and I'll try and explain the LSD tuning process if you want :tup:
     
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  9. steefpeef

    steefpeef

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    i did some tests,

    if i have the same car with a good tune (same tires and settings)
    with for example 500pp
    i have to use the same car with 550pp (sometimes 525 if the car is good stock)
    in stock settings to match the lap-time...
     
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  10. Otaliema

    Otaliema

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    Maybe if you're good at sliding but if you're a grip driver that is not a good slider a well tuned LSD can take a notable amount of time off a lap. Because it allows for later braking and earlier throttle use
     
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  11. ImToLegitToQuit

    ImToLegitToQuit

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    This is a super basic way of understanding how to adjust a LSD without getting into the nitty gritty of it.

    INITIAL : think of the initial setting as a timer or limiter for how quickly the LSD reacts. Say you've set you settings for accel and decel already and like how they are working. The initial setting at 6 feels like everything happens instantly, where as at around 20 it takes a little bit longer (a few 10th's, if that) for your settings to reach their max potential. Basically the initial setting feels like it smooths out the transition from open to locked in the LSD. This comes at a slight cost to cornering ability. At higher settings it may start to feel like your car is understeering mid corner. The highest initial setting i think i've ever used is a 22, I average 8 to 12.

    ACCELERATION : This one is a bit harder to get right depending on the drivetrain and the power of the car. There are other guides that can lead you to a "best" setting for the car that involve putting comfort tires on and turning and accelerating, then making adjustments until both tires turn red at the same time. That's not necessarily the most user friendly setting though.

    Basically the lower you setting is, the more power gets sent to one tire when you lose traction. If you are set at 6 and floor the throttle in a RWD car you will be spinning one tire while the other gets no power. As you move the slider up it will allow more power to the other wheel (the initial setting determines how smoothly this happens) once you lose traction. On a more powerful car it might help to keep a lower setting to at least maintain grip on one tire. I tend to look at that as a crutch for poor throttle control though and ultimately makes the car harder to drive because you have grip and wheelspin at the same time on opposite sides of the car. What usually works best is a higher setting and some practice with the throttle. A higher setting makes it a bit tougher managing wheelspin in slower corners but actually allows more grip for acceleration by letting both tires do the job.

    This really is a setting that is hard to get right if your driving skills are fairly low. It's probably best to start low and move it in increments of ten until you find a range that you like. Then narrow it down in increments of 5, and then 2, and then 1, until you have a final setting. I typically end up between 18 and 30 but I like mine a bit higher than most people.

    DECELERATION : This is the easiest to adjust because it manages how much the rear rotates. The more you raise it, the less likely a car is to get unbalanced when letting off the gas or braking. The higher you go, the more significant of a penalty there is to cornering ability and a slight penalty to braking distance. FF and FR cars I always have it at 6. On some cars (mostly MR) you can raise it to get rid of the lift off over steer and really settle a car down without losing any cornering ability. The Dino is a great car to showcase how the Decel setting works.

    Keep in mind that these are explanations on how you can feel what is happening when you cange LSD setting. This is not how they actually work IRL or behind the scenes in GT6. Back when I started tuning though this is how I started to understand them and really be able to dial them in.

    hope that helps.
     
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  12. CSLACR

    CSLACR

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    It sounds like you think there's more time to gain out of tuning then I do.
    I agree transmission tuning can shave up to 1-2 seconds on a normal track, but suspension and LSD do more for feel than for speed, in my experience.
     
  13. ImToLegitToQuit

    ImToLegitToQuit

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    he didn't say anything about times. he said "different" "fun" and "pleasure". On my tunes i end up with about 2 seconds per minute better than the time of a factory car. an example would be that on the GP/F a factory car at 550pp would run a 2:02 and then after tuning a 1:58.
     
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  14. DaBomm4

    DaBomm4

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    To add on this with what @CSLACR is suggesting, have you tested gains from transmission, LSD, and suspension compared to factory separately? I think the best way to do this is take a complete tune, return each to factory and test the gains from each tuning part. The gains from LSD and suspension feel minimal to CSLACR, this is what I got out of it at least.
     
  15. CSLACR

    CSLACR

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    No, sorry. I agree @DaBomm4 - but the best way to test it, is to re-test a car from the Mid-field shootout with a transmission. ;)
    Also testing one with "default" suspension and LSD settings.

    I'll have more on that later though. :)
     
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  16. ImToLegitToQuit

    ImToLegitToQuit

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    I think the data gained from that kind of test wouldn't be very useful though. While you would get specific gains from each part of a tune, combining all of those parts into a full tune would not get you the sum of each part. That's what is so great about a well sorted tune, it all works together. You can have the better cornering from a low decel setting on a LSD and cure the oversteer with your ARBs. Sort of like a team of all stars might not be as good as a team that is a good "team". I hope that makes sense lol.
     
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