Would you like to see motorcycle's in iracing?

Discussion in 'iRacing' started by ctdc67, Aug 22, 2019.

  1. ctdc67

    ctdc67

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    I think it is a great way to add variety to a racing game. Not to mention a very fun addition. I can see people not liking motorcycle's IRL because they are dangerous but in a video game they are a blast.
     
  2. Daz555

    Daz555

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    No. iRacing is a sim and there is no currently accessible control method for bike games that is even remotely sim.
     
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  3. ctdc67

    ctdc67

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    That sounds like the attitude of some real life race car driver talking about Sim. racing. Sorry I'm coming off like a jerk, but that's what you sound like even though you have a point.
     
  4. Daz555

    Daz555

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    You asked a question. I answered your question and gave a reason for my view.
     
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  5. ctdc67

    ctdc67

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    I would like to see what they could do in the bike physics department..
     
  6. Imari

    Imari

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    The problem with bike physics is that the rider and their body is heavily involved. In a car, the driver can reasonably be assumed to be a relatively small static weight in a certain location that doesn't move. On a bike that's not even remotely close to true. The rider is a significant proportion of the total weight of the vehicle, and how the rider moves their body is VERY relevant to how the bike behaves. As has been said previously, there's no readily available control method out there that would even come close to being able to replicate the inputs needed.

    If what iRacing does is take the physics of their racing systems seriously in order to provide a realistic replica of the real life sport, I don't see how they could possibly do even a halfway decent job with motorcycle racing. So yeah, I'd rather they didn't bother and put the work into what they already have and are demonstrably good at.
     
  7. ctdc67

    ctdc67

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    If you were into motorcycle games your opinion would be different. Simulation developers can't simulate every aspect of car driving and I still enjoy them... I don't want Rally in PCars(and i like rally) because making tracks are the biggest part of development. (Street) Motorcycles will use the same tracks.
     
  8. daan

    daan Moderator

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    I don't think you even read @Imari's post.
     
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  9. Imari

    Imari

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    Well done trying to tell me what my opinion would be without knowing anything about me. I play all sorts of games, including motorcycle racing games. I have a motorcycle license, and while I don't have a bike right now I've ridden one for years. I'm hardly ignorant of the pleasures of riding motorcycles.

    Racing games come in a wide spectrum. If we look at car games, at one end might be Need for Speed or other purely unrealistic/arcade games, semi-simulation games like Forza or Gran Turismo in the middle, and super serious simulations like iRacing at the other end.

    Motorcycle games have their counterparts for arcade and semi-simulation games, and they're fine. They're fun if that's what you're looking for, and I enjoy playing them. But that's not the business that iRacing is in. iRacing makes simulations where accuracy is more important than anything else. That niche doesn't exist for motorcycle games, and for a good reason. Your fancy physics system means nothing if the player can't interact with it correctly.

    Driving a car is adequately represented by some pedals, some levers and a steering wheel. You miss out on the physical feedback (bar steering wheel FFB), but you're working with exactly the same control inputs as any real car driver. I (and others) have put non-gamer car enthusiasts behind the wheel in iRacing and they do all right, because it's the same controls and reflexes that they're already used to.

    I assume you ride a bike, so you're aware of how much of your body you use to ride quickly and well. Tell me, how do you translate those inputs into a game? How do you see iRacing: Motorbike edition being controlled? With an Xbox pad?
     
  10. ctdc67

    ctdc67

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    Just because the person controlling the game doesn't interact with the game(steering wheel), the in games physics can be simulated with accurate performance. I would still enjoy iracing with a controller...

    I have my motorcycle license and many bikes in the past. With a family and a need to keep my drivers license clean I am not going to get another bike and zoom around the roads and risk it. I am more than happy to ride virtual. Most people that play simulation car racing games(including me) have their reasons for racing virtual instead of IRL.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2019
  11. Imari

    Imari

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    I've not said that the physics can't be simulated accurately. Obviously they can. That's not the problem, if you'd bother to read my posts. The problem is interacting with the physics meaningfully; in short, control.

    So I take this that you're suggesting then that a console controller of the standard type that is available with your Xbox/Playstation is suitable for a serious motorcycle simulation. Interesting.

    How do you bind the controls for this? Do you have the left analogue stick as turn left/turn right, or do you more accurately simulate the fact that when you turn a motorcycles handlebars to the left at speed the bike goes right? How are you controlling weight movement and tucking, right analogue and two buttons for moving your CoG in three dimensions? How are you controlling riders getting their knee down or not? Are you making any effort to provide force feedback or other information to the rider, or are they doing this purely visually? Does the player have to make any attempt to balance or is it all assumed skill?

    Or is all this being done automatically, and you've basically recreated Ride/MotoGP/Superbike/Tourist Trophy? Why are those games insufficient for you?

    I think you want someone else to solve all the problems for you and magically hand you this hyper-realistic motorcycle simulation that somehow manages to accurately translate the fairly complex task of riding a motorbike fast onto a generic controller. While ignoring the fact that if it were that easy, at least one of any of a number of companies that make semi-simulation motorcycle games would have progressed to that point by now.

    We have highly accurate aircraft simulations, but you cannot seriously engage with one using a console controller alone. The controls are too complex. At minimum it requires a keyboard, to be anything approaching realistic flying requires a specialist controller, a HOTAS joystick/throttle set. A motorcycle has less explicit controls than an aircraft, but the complexity and need for substantial analogue control of a type that no current controller provides, along with feedback that is difficult to convey means that this is not a trivial problem. It can be solved, but I have doubts that it can be solved at a consumer price point.



    This is not consumer grade. But you need a motion rig to really be simulating riding a bike, it's basically central to the experience. Anything that removes that is not really a simulation any more, it's remote control bike racing. Which exists and might be more what you're looking for.



    Physics guaranteed to be absolutely realistic down to the last quantum. Played using a simple controller of a type you'll be familiar with. Safe, relatively cheap, competitive if you want it to be. It's just not real bike riding, just like what you're asking for isn't.
     
  12. Corsa

    Corsa Premium

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    I’m not entirely convinced iRacing knows what they’re doing with cars anymore, so bikes? No thanks.
    They’ve released massive updates in recent months but moving back and forth between iRacing and ACC, the former loses quite terribly.
    Like you guys I’ve been on bikes for years, decades in fact. Rode my K1300s to work this morning was quite brisk, lovely, just not sold on bike games.
    Maybe if someone came forward with ffb handlebars? Such hardware would probably cost as much as a decent used bike.
     
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  13. ctdc67

    ctdc67

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    How many people use a motion rig in iracing? Probibly not many. Where is a contraption to simulate G-force. That still needs to be invented. When more motorcycle games come out, more hardware will be out. There are limitations for all simulation games and that does not mean they can't push the limits.
    '
     
  14. Corsa

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  15. Imari

    Imari

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    If you can't control it well enough to experience the extra fidelity, why are you not just playing Ride?
     
  16. ctdc67

    ctdc67

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    Would you be happy with one company making all the car racing games?
     
  17. Imari

    Imari

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    So what you're saying is that there's already multiple games that do exactly what you want, but you want one from iRacing because...monopolies that aren't monopolies are bad, mmkay?
     
  18. ctdc67

    ctdc67

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    It looks like some people have a religious passion for car simulation games I am a little surprised the motorcycle game community doesn't chime in.. Ride,Motogp and Isle of Man are fun games and on the simulation physics side. I would like to take a motorcycle for some lap and then a car out in within the same sim. game. The Crew has that option but it is an arcade game. Most simulation games have a wide variety of cars and I would like to add a motorcycle. Variety is the spice of life...
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2019