WW1 remembrance 100 years

[mister dog]

On the 28th of June a 100 years ago Franz Ferdinand and his wife got shot whilst touring Sarajevo, it escalated in WW1 which claimed millions of lives and produced lots of misery.

I was in my home country last week, visited Tyne Cot cemetery in Zonnebeke:

Where the graves of thousands of English, Australian and New Zealand soldiers are, amongst the graves of just 4 Germans.(I though to myself that those Germans (their grave is in the middle of the cemetery), are surrounded for eternity.

Also visited the Passchendaele museum, Ieper and the Menen Gate (all recommended if you ever visit flanders):

I also have WW1 stories from my family. The uncle of my granny was a sergeant and in the last days of the war, he told his men to get up (they were lying down in a ditch). At the moment they got up a German mortar struck and almost all his men got decapitated whilst getting up and my uncle lost his left arm. For the rest of his life he had a fear of mud. He couldn't stand it after having spend so many years in the trenches at Flanders fields...

My question to you were you are; is this war already forgotten? (i get the feeling sadly). Do you know much about it, and have other members got WW1 stories from their families maybe?

 

[KSaiyu]

Will always remember my trip to the Somme. At the time we were all a bit miffed since the geography class got to go to Eurodisney instead but I reckon it was more than worth it in the long run. A great generation indeed.

 

[Dotini]

At the time, most of Europe was organized into empires. The war seems to have initially been motivated by a nation state wishing to free itself of the yoke of empire. Another giant factor was a cascading series of interlocking treaties which obligated treaty members to come to the defense of other parties to the treaty. War then became an automatic reflex instead of a careful consideration of self-interest.

 

[Liquid]

The first major international scuffle in the Greater European wars 1870-1945.

Some, myself included, like to see the Franco-Prussian war of 1870-71 as the start of a series of major European conflicts which did not come to a conclusive end until the 1939-45 Second World War. Often called the European Civil War, as it is on Wikipedia, I don't agree with that per se because Europe was never unified for it to be an "internal" conflict but there are overlapping and lingering tensions from many European conflicts of the late 19th century through to the early to mid 20th century.

All the major European powers were arming themselves for war in the 1910s, there just needed to be an incident to give legitimacy and pretext to the war. The assassination of the heir to the Austro-Hungarian throne was that spark.

World War One was a watershed in European history. It led to the dissolution of some of the most poweful and influential monarchies in the world (Russian, German) and in the case of Austro-Hungary, the dissolution of an incredibly powerful monarchy and break up of Europe's largest sovereign landmass (modern day Austria, Hungary, Czechia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Romania, Serbia, Bosnia-Hercegovina, Montenegro and Croatia).

It cannot be overstated how important World War One is. The founding of many of the modern sovereign nations as we know them today, the rise and success of republicanism and the dissarray in Europe afterwards allowed an isolated United States to extend its influence and reach across the globe.

Even if you don't agree with the 1870-1945 periodisation, it is certainly true that the fall of the German monarchy, a major incident in the war, created a tempered environment in Germany where much bitterness and resentment festered. The aftermath of World War One, and the failure of the League Of Nations, definitely laid the foundations for the European theatre of World War Two.

And that's just from a histographical / political point of view. Technologically, World War One was a prototype for many new weapons of warfare such as tanks, fully automatic machine guns and aeroplanes. The end of the cavalry charge and furious bayonetting.

It should never be forgotten. For anyone with an interest in European history and for anyone who gives a damn about what has shaped us as peoples.

 

[mister dog]

 

[Mike Rotch]

Also visited the Passchendaele museum, Ieper and the Menen Gate (all recommended if you ever visit flanders)

Good post and I am very envious that you and other Europeans can visit such sights so easily. I did the same as you 7 years ago now, including a day drive around the Somme and it was hugely emotional. If the ground could talk, what stories it would tell.

I dug out some of my pics from various memorials:

Thieval Memorial on the Somme, containing >75,000 names inscribed of soldiers with no known grave

Newfoundland Park Memorial - untouched evidence of war

Fricourt German Cemetery - one of only 4 on the entire Somme battlefield

Australian 5th Division - Polygon Wood

Remains of Pozieres Windmill, the scene of Australia's greatest loss of life in a single battle in history:

Delville Wood Cemetary and Memorial, South Africa's greatest military loss in a single battle in history.

 

[mister dog]

Good post and I am very envious that you and other Europeans can visit such sights so easily. I did the same as you 7 years ago now, including a day drive around the Somme and it was hugely emotional. If the ground could talk, what stories it would tell.

Funny that you say it; i borrowed my parents car and was driving there with the misses on a sunny day through those beautiful green fields and little villages; and then you have to realize that just 100 years ago all those fields were trenches, with only mud, no trees in sight and thousands of men fighting for their lives...

For example; the pic of Ieper (with the belfry) i posted in the OP is how it looks nowadays, but they had to rebuild all those old buildings from scratch as this was how it looked after WO1:

 

[Eyes Fried Open]

Respect to all those who laid down there life for this.

RIP ANZACS

 

[Lizard]

Ahh the first world war. One of the only things that makes me cry.
True the second world war had more people die during it but can you imagine living in a trench or having no where to hide from machine guns? People are recorded to have stuck their feet above the sandbags and when asked why they answered. I may lose my foot and the ability to walk but at least I can go home.

All this because of a guy who wanted to free Yugoslavia (and unify it) shooting the Archduke and Serbia refusing the July ultimatum. Also the ultimate result of the battered concert of Europe although it had formed 2 separate camps by then.

I remember a tv show called the last voices of WW1 which was good. Haven't a clue on the channel and it was about 5 years ago. Also a shame no one is still alive, I liked reading about Harry Patch (I think that was his name) when he was the last one.

Also don't forget the Asia/Pacific war. Although small in scale compared to the European one the Chinese were helping supply the Triple Alliance so the Japanese went and tried to put a stop to it.

 

[mister dog]

How WW1 affects you:

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/06/11/opinion/ben-ghiat-world-war-one/index.html?iid=article_sidebar

Interesting read on all the inventions that came to be because of WW1, and how it changed society and warfare in general. I'll remember the next time i use a tea bag

 

[TenEightyOne]

War broke and now the winter of the world with perishing great darkness closes in. The foul tornado, centred at Berlin, is over all the width of Europe whirled,
rending the sails of progress.

Rent or furled are all art's ensigns. Verse wails. Now begin @Famines of thought and feeling. Love's wine's thin. The grain of human Autumn rots, down-hurled.

For after Spring had bloomed in early Greece, and Summer blazed her glory out with Rome, an Autumn softly fell, a harvest home, a slow grand age, and rich with all increase. But now, for us, wild Winter, and the need of sowings for new Spring, and blood for seed.

For all those who fell because they believed in something so... so "right" that they were prepared to die for it... RIP.

 

[mister dog]

WW1 Christmas truce, tomorrow exactly 100 years ago:

"ON CHRISTMAS EVE, 1914, the guns of war fell silent along many sections of the Western Front. Over one long night – and even into early January in some places – the German, French, and British soldiers spontaneously halted the bloodletting and celebrated a Christmas truce. “Such a peace from below had never occurred before in the history of war,” historian Michael Jürgs wrote in his book Der kleine Friede im Großen Krieg (The Small Peace in the Big War), nor has it ever happened since in the same way and on the same scale. But as miraculous as the truce must have appeared, it could not last. “Today we have peace," a German soldier told his new English friend. "Tomorrow, you fight for your country, I fight for mine. Good luck.”

 

[Dotini]

WWI turned out to be a bad joke on Europe, with over 38 million men killed, wounded or missing in action. When an unjust peace came, the Ottoman Empire collapsed, Hitler rose, and world war recommenced just a few short years later.

But humans love conflict. We cannot get enough of it. It will happen again. Humans never change, but our weapons get better.

 

[lbsf1]

I feel that to most of "my generation" (18yo) WW1 is what most of us see as the start of the modern era. The fact that so many pictures were taken and journalistic reports were written for the first time means it is a lot more relatable today. The war changed Europe hugely and ultimately led the way to WW2.

I would hope that this would mean my generation will learn from the mistakes made before and avoid another tragedy such as this, so many young men sent into a brutal war for in the end very little gain for anyone.

I went to a WW1 cemetary in 2007 on a school trip and the number of casualties is just mind blowing. As said above the events of Christmas 1914 showed there was no hatred between the fighters on either side, each just following orders, to me that makes the loss of life even sader.

 

[Lizard]

I would hope that this would mean my generation will learn from the mistakes made before and avoid another tragedy such as this, so many young men sent into a brutal war for in the end very little gain for anyone.

We already did 70 years ago. Almost got crushed due to not learning it but we got there in the end.

The issue was we were using Napoleonic era tactics. We tried the same at the start of WW2 and the Germans who had adopted more modern tactics just steam rolled us.

Also why the American Civil War had so many deaths.

 

[DK]

WW1 Christmas truce, tomorrow exactly 100 years ago:

"ON CHRISTMAS EVE, 1914, the guns of war fell silent along many sections of the Western Front. Over one long night – and even into early January in some places – the German, French, and British soldiers spontaneously halted the bloodletting and celebrated a Christmas truce. “Such a peace from below had never occurred before in the history of war,” historian Michael Jürgs wrote in his book Der kleine Friede im Großen Krieg (The Small Peace in the Big War), nor has it ever happened since in the same way and on the same scale. But as miraculous as the truce must have appeared, it could not last. “Today we have peace," a German soldier told his new English friend. "Tomorrow, you fight for your country, I fight for mine. Good luck.”

I don't mean to rain on your parade, but...such truces were commonplace during the opening months of WW1.

 

[mister dog]

I don't mean to rain on your parade, but...such truces were commonplace during the opening months of WW1.

No parade at all, just citing the fact that 100 years ago during xmas killing took second place to brotherhood and bonding between 'enemies' albeit just for a while. Before we forget.

 

[Liquid]

100 years since the Somme. An entire century has passed. The war still had two years to run at this point.

 

[Dotini]

...the Somme.

A bad deal. 20,000 Brits were killed in one day alone, BBC said, mainly by walking straight into Maxim machine gun fire. The 5 month battle took a toll of a million casualties, all side counting.

 

[Liquid]

The 5 month battle took a toll of a million casualties, all side counting.

Which makes the fact that the war still had two years left to run even more tragic. Passchendaele and the like were still yet to occur.

 

[Dotini]

War is a bitch, and we never, ever, learn. My grandfather was in the WWI merchant marine, dodging torpedoes in the Atlantic. Father served on Guam dodging sniper fire in WWII. Uncle Bud's B-24 Liberator was shot down over the Ploesti oilfields and he returned a broken man after 7 months evading capture behind the lines. I lost several friends and schoolmates in 'Nam. This very day war rages across the middle east, largely started by men (and some women) playing a game of thrones.

• 
  

 

[Lizard]

Which makes the fact that the war still had two years left to run even more tragic. Passchendaele and the like were still yet to occur.

Yep and Vimy Ridge, the Nivelle Offensive and Bloody April. Verdun was still going on and would be till Christmas.

 

[Liquid]

War is a bitch, and we never, ever, learn.

Which, tying in succinctly with the Somme, brings us to Field Marshall Douglas Haig. Which way do the winds blow for him these days, favourably or not?

I remember reading up about him when I was little and it was all "Butcher Haig" this and "lions led by donkeys that" but now there has been some re-evalutation of men like him which try and stress that he was not the ignorant, stubborn cowboy we once thought him to be, but did indeed try to adapt to new tactics and new technologies. He was hampered by strategic and environmental realities, which led to the high number of casualties under his command; two million between 1915-1918.

Butcher Haig or a commander hampered by the harsh reality of war? I suspect that, as is often the case, it falls somewhere between the two. But I would also bet that if you brought up his name, it would be reviled more than it is revered.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Butcher Haig or a commander hampered by the harsh reality of war? I suspect that, as is often the case, it falls somewhere between the two. But I would also bet that if you brought up his name, it would be reviled more than it is revered.

In terms of the Somme they were hampered by an immense intelligence failure - the Germans knew the date and time of the attack thanks to the insecure nature of British trench communications.

Overall the commanders of both sides were fighting an old style numbers-always-win war in an age of new chemical and mechanical technology. It was the last of the "rush" wars and taught tacticians a lot of lessons for a horrible price.

 

[Biggles]

I think we can say, regardless of Haig's personal level of responsibility, the general idiocy of the high command on both sides was blameworthy. Who sends hundreds of thousands of men to their deaths for month after month after month?

I made the point in anther thread that the European experience in the two World Wars, understandably, created deep scars in the European psyche that separates Europe from North America in profound ways.

 

[Lizard]

The thing I find fascinating is that it was considered a war crime to use incendiary ammo against planes till 21. The fact the pilots had no parachutes and thus were going to die anyway obviously slipped the mind of politicians.


I always feel more sad about WW1 than 2. Despite 2 having a higher death count, those trenches must have been hell on earth. So much so that there were some people who stuck their foot above the trench hoping to get shot, as although they would lose their foot they would at least be allowed to go home.

 

[A2K78]

Shame that whenever we talk about a WW we never talk about WW1 and its consequences which continue to play out right down till this day.

Anyhow recently I got through watching a great documentary(The First World War) and its quite amazing. What I find even shocking about this was the vast amount of atrocities committed.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Shame that whenever we talk about a WW we never talk about WW1 and its consequences which continue to play out right down till this day.

Nonsense.

 

[Bo]

My Great Grandfather, John Moran, was in the Somme. He was one of the older ones involved. He was with a young man, who was told to hold onto his back as they crossed. The young man wasn't able to hold on. It haunted him for the rest of his life.

I can't even begin to comprehend how many stories like that are out there.

 

[mister dog]

Nonsense.

Not exactly, might be popular again right now due to Battlefield 1 being released soon, but the general impression i get at least is that whilst younger people remember a couple of points from WW2 in general, WW1 is already a blur so nonsense is an exaggeration.