Yellow Ford GT Prize Car

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In the Extreme hall, one of the races gives you a prize car listed as a Ford GT 05. It is yellow and has no racing stripes. It turns out that this car, in Two Player Battle Mode, allows you to fit Racing tires. Nice to have a "regular" car that allows racing tires. The bad news is the car handles *totally* weird in TPBM, the rear just slides around all the time. I don't know what to make of that, as it is tuned to handle properly in Gran Turismo mode, where it does just fine. I suppose I could try to change settings, then go into TPBM, then go back and change settings, but I have a feeling I won't find time to do that. Still, for those people like me who *HATE* the crappy stickers they put all over the "Race Cars", it is nice to have a car that isn't made fugly with advertisements but which you can still stick racing tires on.

As a general note, I've found that some of my tuned cars handle almost the same in TPBM and some handle like a completely different car. I'm sure it is a bug that we can't do anything about, but it is extremely annoying and I wanted to vent about it :-) Thanks for listening :-)
 
the bug is the tcs and asm, u need to turn it on or off in 2p mode, theres a thread about that somewhere, as i posted in it before, so go serach for it



djaft3rb3ats
 
djaft3rb3ats
the bug is the tcs and asm, u need to turn it on or off in 2p mode, theres a thread about that somewhere, as i posted in it before, so go serach for it



djaft3rb3ats
I'm aware of that particular "bug" and it definitely shouldn't be the driving nannies in this case as I always turn them completely off for all my cars. On rare occasion I will turn on the TCS in a FR or FF car for a specific race, but other than that I leave all of them off all the time.
 
Well, the GT4 first of all does a poor simulation of an awesome car. I think Ford stepped on the Japanese pride as the real Gord GT is actually a far better car. I think they did it purposely. The real Ford GT tops out at 235 MPH. Not in GT4! You have to go full power options to get that. The real GT also does 0-60 in 3.3 secs.

However, a powerful MR car is unique whereas in reality, you do not want to release the throttle completely. Like a Porche, if you suddenly release the throttle, near max cornering, you will crash.

As for the colors, the real Ford GT is available in six colors with vinyl stripes. As an option, you can have painted stripes, or no stripes.

I have heard of people getting 5 of the 6 solid colors. I have both Black and Blue.
 
OK, so I decided to get another solid-color (no racing stripes) Ford GT '05. I took the yellow Ford GT '05 I won in the Extreme Events section, and guess what? It won't let me drive that particular Ford GT! I had to drive the one I purchased. The game insisted I wasn't in a Ford GT.

I think they botched this car (meaning, there is something especially wrong with the particular version of the Ford GT you win in this series). Plus, when I won, I got a solid purple GT, Yuck! :-)
 
Wild Cobra Z28
Well, the GT4 first of all does a poor simulation of an awesome car. I think Ford stepped on the Japanese pride as the real Gord GT is actually a far better car. I think they did it purposely. The real Ford GT tops out at 235 MPH. Not in GT4! You have to go full power options to get that. The real GT also does 0-60 in 3.3 secs.

You might want to have a read of this thread

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=64900

and this post in particular

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=1742206&postcount=19

With regard to the 0 - 60 and top speeds you have quoted, they may be from manufacturers claims; personally I would rather go with independent figures. I use Autocar (who use true GPS logged data) and the following were the figures they obtained.

0-60 3.5secs (true 60mph - speedo reading 62)

Top Speed 205 mph

Road and Track in the USA also figured the carand the results tey obtained were

0-60 3.8 secs

Top Speed 190 mph (on test @ 4750rpm)

R&T also indicate in the spec sheet that the GT's speedo has a max reading of 220 mph!


You may also want to take a look here, a test compairing real 0 - 100 - 0 figures for a Ford GT with figures obtained through GT4.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=1737520&postcount=345

Its quite interesting stuff and I believe shows that far from doing a poor job with the GT, PD have actually done a damn fine job with the car.

Regards

Scaff
 
Scaff
You might want to have a read of this thread

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=64900

and this post in particular

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=1742206&postcount=19

With regard to the 0 - 60 and top speeds you have quoted, they may be from manufacturers claims; personally I would rather go with independent figures. I use Autocar (who use true GPS logged data) and the following were the figures they obtained.

0-60 3.5secs (true 60mph - speedo reading 62)

Top Speed 205 mph

Road and Track in the USA also figured the carand the results tey obtained were

0-60 3.8 secs

Top Speed 190 mph (on test @ 4750rpm)

R&T also indicate in the spec sheet that the GT's speedo has a max reading of 220 mph!


You may also want to take a look here, a test compairing real 0 - 100 - 0 figures for a Ford GT with figures obtained through GT4.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=1737520&postcount=345

Its quite interesting stuff and I believe shows that far from doing a poor job with the GT, PD have actually done a damn fine job with the car.

Regards

Scaff

Well, it looks like to me those writing the reports failed to do some important things. First of all, a professional race driver was used with a change of real sticky race tires to get the 3.3 seconds. Top speed 190@4750 RPM… well, they obviously used 6th gear rather than 5th gear to do it. The car is designed for top speed in 5th gear, and very close to the 6500 RPM peak power point. Sixth is for fuel economy on the freeway. To only get 190MPH means the car has less than 400 HP at that RPM, probably about 370 or less. The 550HP is enough power to make the slick body of the Ford GT go 235, and probably faster. Looks like GT4 based the top speed on the faulty info of trying top speed in 6th!

As for the speedometer, that doesn't mean anything. Almost all powerful USA cars will go faster than than their speedometer.
 
Yes, the RL Ford GT does indeed top 200 mph, I don't know why anyone would write a review of the vehicle that says otherwise.

As for the non-racing-stripe Ford GTs you can win in the Extreme events, they can only be described as "broken". In GT mode they are mostly identical to the Ford GT you can purchase, but when you put a wing on them the downforce values are different than those available on the purchased versions. Also, in TPBM (Two Player Battle Mode!), this version of the GT is an unmanageable mess. I'm not talking about any of the normal differences between GT and TPBM mode, this is a different issue completely. This car is just about unusable in TPBM.

So, stick with a purchased Ford GT unless you really want one with no racing stripes.
 
Wild Cobra Z28
Well, it looks like to me those writing the reports failed to do some important things. First of all, a professional race driver was used with a change of real sticky race tires to get the 3.3 seconds. Top speed 190@4750 RPM… well, they obviously used 6th gear rather than 5th gear to do it. The car is designed for top speed in 5th gear, and very close to the 6500 RPM peak power point. Sixth is for fuel economy on the freeway. To only get 190MPH means the car has less than 400 HP at that RPM, probably about 370 or less. The 550HP is enough power to make the slick body of the Ford GT go 235, and probably faster. Looks like GT4 based the top speed on the faulty info of trying top speed in 6th!

As for the speedometer, that doesn't mean anything. Almost all powerful USA cars will go faster than than their speedometer.

The two article I quoted were in regard to a Ford GT in stock form, not running on race tyres (which quite obviously will reduce a 0-60 time), which is a very significant fact you seem to have forgotten to mention when you posted the 3.3 seconds time. It would also be nice if you could quote some sources for these times. I've found one which is Car & Drivers website, this was however on a Ford 'development' car and as such I would take with a pinch of salt. lease be aware that I do not dispute that a 3.3sec time would be possiable with the right driver, climate and most importantly tyre choice. As you have said the time you quote was on sticky race tyres, but what about road legal stock tyres!

On the second point, you seem to have ignored the Autocar v-max of 205mph and focused on the 190mph Road & Track time (i have no idea why you took the choice to ignore the Autocar figure), howeverhere are some more details on the top speed recorded by Autocar here you go

Max speeds by Gear
6th 205mph 5050 rpm
5th 205mph 6170rpm
4th 181mph 6650rpm
3rd 138mph 6650rpm
2nd 99mph 6650rpm
1st 65mph 6650rpm

Accel from rest

30mph 1.7 secs
40mph 2.3 secs
50mph 2.9 secs
60mph 3.5 secs
70mph 4.8 secs
80mph 5.7 secs
90mph 6.5 secs
100mph 7.8 secs
110mph 9.4 secs
120mph 11.2 secs
130mph 13.0 secs
140mph 15.1 secs
150mph 17.5 secs

Standing qtr 11.7secs 123mph

The figures are measured using Racelogic VBOX GPS equipment which is suitable for submission for world record purposes (and Autocars figures have been accepted in the past for these purposes). These are real world figures, recorded by one of the most respected automotive magazines in the world; one which is know for its netrual stance on performance figures.

The Ford GT also runs a 5th gear ratio (and mph per 1000rpm) of

5th 0.77 / 33.2

With a max engine speed of 6650rpm, the sums work out as follows

5th gear v-max = 33.2 x 6.650 = 220.78 mph

However this figure does not take into account drag, and at these speeds no matter how slippery the car its going to have a major effect.

Now a quick max speed run in a stock GT (not even an oil change) with N2 tyres gave me the following v-max.

218.42 mph



Now if you wanted to ignore the laws of physics regarding drag and just look at pure number s for a car, you can come up with some quite silly results.

The GT runs a 6th gear ratio of 0.63, which provides 40.6mph per 1000rpm, this would equate to a theoretical top speed of

40.6 x 6.650 = 269.99mph !!!!

Now quite obviously the GT is not capable of this speed, no matter what sort of a run it has.

Now your quoted v-max on the car was 235 mph, which you claim is produced in 5th gear, however as I have quite clearly shown the gearing of a GT in 5th makes this an imposability, as the v-max for 5th would be 220mph before you take drag into account. Now 6th gear could theoretically run to your spped, but to do so would need both a straight road of epic length and for someone to remove the laws of physics with regard to drag.

The speedo issue is of note, because while the US regulations state that a maxmum allowable difference between speedo and actual speed is 10% (based on + or - 5mph at 50mph speed), the GT is sold in Europe and the legislation is slightly stricter here, the difference is still the same (10%) but only an underread is allowed (i.e. speedo reads 100mph, but actual speed could be 90-100 mph). The Ford GT would then be illegal in Europe.

Every single piece I have read on the GT (and based on actual real world test data) indicates that it has a top speed of approx 205 - 215mph, which will vary based upon local climatic changes, but the 235mph you have quoted does not appear to have ever been achieved by an independent test I have seen, nor is it claimed by Ford, the GT website being free of an claim to top speed. All magazine and TV pieces I have seen on the GT that quote claimed Ford figures state a 200mph+ top speed.

I would be very interested if you could let me have the name of the source for the 235mph figure, or a scan of it.

Regards

Scaff

All specification figures quoted are from Autocar and/or Ford
 
Scaff
Now if you wanted to ignore the laws of physics regarding drag and just look at pure number s for a car, you can come up with some quite silly results.
Well, I am not ignoring the laws of physics. I am aware in of the various frictional considerations.
Scaff
The GT runs a 6th gear ratio of 0.63, which provides 40.6mph per 1000rpm, this would equate to a theoretical top speed of 40.6 x 6.650 = 269.99mph !!!!
And the theoretical max of my Z28 is also 270MPH in sixth (0.50) gear, but it tops out at about 130MPH. In 5th however, it probably goes 160 or 165. I know it goes much faster than the 130! I only had it about 150 before letting off. When I live in Germany, I had a 1977 Firebird Esprit with Trans-Am body parts (older design, more drag) that would top at least 165-170 in the right conditions, and I don’t think it’s engine was much stronger than the LS1, but that Oldsmobile 350 with a Quadrajet sure breaths good!
Scaff
I would be very interested if you could let me have the name of the source for the 235mph figure, or a scan of it.
I will look for it when I find time. It’s been several months since I’ve seen it. I know what I saw and the physics pan out for the car.

A thought… Is it possible the production GT has a governor that needs to be removed? Equal top speeds in 5th and 6th don’t make sense, especially when the 5th top speed is below peak power! Maybe some later cars got some detuning for EPA reasons? There are actually so many other reasons why the discrepancies could be including altitude and weather conditions.
 
Scaff, another thought... I was looking for the source. Haven't found it yet, but are you sure the 500 HP @ 6000 RPM preproduction version wasn't tested in the reviews you sited? It would make sense!
 
Wild Cobra Z28
Scaff, another thought... I was looking for the source. Haven't found it yet, but are you sure the 500 HP @ 6000 RPM preproduction version wasn't tested in the reviews you sited? It would make sense!

Nope, the Autocar was a full road test on a production GT, running at 550bhp.

Remember its not the 0-60 time I have an issue with, 3.3secs should be possiable in the right conditions, withthe right tyres and driver.

However a top speed of 235mph just does not sit right with the performance figures for the car; you are correct that the engine is theoretically capable of it, however the gearing and aerodynamic drag are what gets in the way.

The figures I quotes regarding gear ratios and mph per 1000rpm are Fords own, and given these 235mph is not possiable in 5th, and aero drag is going to stop anything much above 200 - 210 mph in 6th as the gearing is, as you correctly say, for economy not [erformance.

I believe that the GT could get close to 220mph in the right conditions and with a damn long run, its just the 235mph I do not buy.

Regards

Scaff

Just found this, the Ford GT's certified top speed (as recorded and verified at the Nardo high speed test facility is 205MPH, heres a link.

Ford GT 205 mph
 
Well, maybe what I say was pre-production testing, maybe is was slightly modified in the gearing or tires. With your figures you say are from ford, need about a 10% difference to match the 6500 to 235 MPH.

I don't know if this is where I say the numbers, but I remember seeing something on perhaps the Discovery channel about the new GT. They showed actual testing of the 500HP prototypes, and the 550HP prototypes. Maybe they hit 235MPH but failed their goal numbers for economy or emissions and had to rework something. One thing I remember was they did change their choice of tires for production, and maybe that could explain the difference. I don't recall where, but I do recall the 235MPH number. Maybe they weren't comfortable with the downforce and change the body shape for more. I think it’s at 250 pounds of downforce now, but at what speed? I can only speculate why things are different, and it looks like I'm wrong about the production model.

I wonder how much smoother the body is with painted stripes rather than vinyl stripes? How much difference can that make at 200+ MPH? Can the air peel it off?

The though reminded me of when I had to replace my chrome stripping. When I lived in Germany, one day cruising real fast down the autobahn, my windshield chrome stripping all flew off the car. Happened so fast, I didn’t know what I saw, till I got outside the car and it was missing! The force of the air literally ripped off my chrome stripping! I was probably going about 160-165 MPH…..
 
hmm, intriguing story, maybe those factors u mentioned did have an effect of the production model of the car, but itll be hard to find the answer



djaft3rb3ats
 
Wild Cobra Z28
Well, maybe what I say was pre-production testing, maybe is was slightly modified in the gearing or tires. With your figures you say are from ford, need about a 10% difference to match the 6500 to 235 MPH.

I don't know if this is where I say the numbers, but I remember seeing something on perhaps the Discovery channel about the new GT. They showed actual testing of the 500HP prototypes, and the 550HP prototypes. Maybe they hit 235MPH but failed their goal numbers for economy or emissions and had to rework something. One thing I remember was they did change their choice of tires for production, and maybe that could explain the difference. I don't recall where, but I do recall the 235MPH number. Maybe they weren't comfortable with the downforce and change the body shape for more. I think it’s at 250 pounds of downforce now, but at what speed? I can only speculate why things are different, and it looks like I'm wrong about the production model.

I wonder how much smoother the body is with painted stripes rather than vinyl stripes? How much difference can that make at 200+ MPH? Can the air peel it off?

The though reminded me of when I had to replace my chrome stripping. When I lived in Germany, one day cruising real fast down the autobahn, my windshield chrome stripping all flew off the car. Happened so fast, I didn’t know what I saw, till I got outside the car and it was missing! The force of the air literally ripped off my chrome stripping! I was probably going about 160-165 MPH…..

I think you could be right that 235mph was perhaps an original design target, with changes during the final stages causing it to be changed.

I do know that when Ford tested the original GT40's aerodynamic stability at speed, they found a large amount of lift at 210mph+, one of the reasons why the Ford GT has a very small and subtle lip spoiler on the back and an extensive undercar aero package. All of which would peg back any original top speed target.

You are right about little things making a huge difference at these speeds, once you get above 200 mph the amount of horsepower needed to just overcome air resistance is massive and the increase needed per additional mph large. Most high speed record attempts resort to things like tapeing down the wipers and covering panel gaps with tape to help inprove the aero.

Regards

Scaff
 
thanks a lot for the information all, but lets get back into the game and swerve away from real life for a second because for now, we havent done much about the tuning of the car =)


djaft3rb3ats
 

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