YSSMAN's Secret Invasion

[YSSMAN]

YSSMAN's Secret Invasion**

**Yes, I realize that no one wants to read a "What New Car Should I Get?" thread every time someone has a new idea, but alas, this is another one.​

Consider this a sequel of sorts to the formerly long-running series, YSSMAN's Infinite Crisis. In that thread, in much the same as this one, I'm considering looking for a new car, albeit with a different set of circumstances this time around. Instead of guessing that my current vehicle was on the verge of death (it did), and then needing a replacement, this is more or less the formation of an exploratory committee to attempt to decide what to do now that I've come into a bit of money.

How much money? That is an excellent question. My income has roughly doubled while actually working fewer hours than I did previously, and by my estimation, I'm going to have upwards of $400 (plus insurance) per month for pretty much whatever I want. So, that really opens things up to a lot of options.

I haven't talked a lot about it mainly because, well, I'm not even sure what I want to do. I'm moving out of my house in May, and will have to deal with having all of those fancy life responsibilities in the not-too-distant future. Furthermore, I'd like to remove myself of a large portion of my debt as soon as possible. Of course, these are roadblocks that can be avoided.

What am I looking for?
Generally speaking, the pretty typical stuff... "Fun to drive," decent reliability, something that won't totally kill my wallet if something goes wrong. Etc. But, I do want to add these as well:

• A "Nice Car" : I see a lot of college grads buy new cars that are, at best, okay. I really don't want a typical Civic or a Scion, it's far too boring and shows little of how hard you've worked to get where you are today.
• Something to say "I've Made It" : Not in the typical middle-age way, buying a BMW or a Corvette, or whatever. But to say, generally speaking, that I've managed to find a decent job, manage my money correctly, and I've spoiled myself a bit to buy this.
• Still be "Young and Energetic" : Something nice doesn't always make it a good car for a young person. I'd like the car to be fresh, interesting, and ultimately speak to my style.

The basic idea thus far is to have my current car (1998 Toyota Celica GT) paid off by the end of the year, and then use that extra money to save up for whatever else I want to go after. I'm not in any huge rush to get rid of Mieko, but I do know someone who wants to buy her when I sell her, and I'd hate to keep them waiting for so long that they end up getting something else.

So far, I've come up with three scenarios that sound at the very least, plausible:

The Runaways
This would basically be a two-car plan, adding a second "affordable" vehicle to the garage to go along with the Celica.

• NA Mazda MX5: Cheap, reliable, easy(ish) to find, a good car to "learn" with. I'd wait until the snow is on the ground to grab a cheap model to work on myself. It would be something fun for the summer, but able to use all year if I want. Total price could easily be done for well under $5000.
• 1964-1970 Ford Mustang Project: My Dad hates Fords. I've grown to love them. I'm finding a lot of affordable Mustangs for dirt cheap, things I could learn with, and grow to love. Easily the perfect accessory with my Dad's '68 Camaro. I'd be looking for V8 models, preferably. Could care less about notchback vs fastbackl
• New Vespa: I love me some scooters. I'm looking to move to the central city here in Grand Rapids, and it would be perfect for gettng around the city quickly, getting to class, and being a boss. Only problem is that they're crazy expensive for what you get.
• Used Motorcycle: Not sure how I feel about it. I'd love to own a low-spec Harley or an older BMW bike. I haven't ridden enough to make an informed decision here.

The Avengers
This would be a single-car plan, selling the Celica and grabbing a used vehicle on the higher end of the price scale. I'd set the figure somewhere around $15-17K on the high end, but leave no major restrictions otherwise.

• E39 BMW 5-series: I'd call this the Halo Car of all the options I've thought of thus far. I've been very surprised by how cheap you can get an M5, let alone a 540i. Thing is, I have no idea what reliability and repair figures are like.
• E46 BMW 3-series: Probably a little easy to call for. I know Duke has mentioned avoiding the early models because of the different steering systems, other than that, what's bad? I'd probably want a 328/330ci, but they're all great across the board.
• Pontiac GTO: The neuvo Goat wasn't well loved. They seem to be holding their value though. As a package overall, it's balanced, and I like balance. Apparently they're fairly reliabile. Whoda guessed?
• AP1 Honda S2000: This is the most impractical car I can think of. Yeesh. It would be sweet though.
• MKV Volkswagen GLI: I have a strange obession with Jettas. Based on Philly's issues with his GTI, it makes me want to think twice about looking at them. Plaid seats make me think otherwise.

The Illuminati
The "big" single-car plan, this would be going completely new off a dealer lot. My price ceiling is not totally defined, but I'd want to keep it under $400 a month.

• Nissan Juke S: Hate the looks if you will, I think it's brilliant. Turbo power, AWD, smaller size, still carries all my junk. Its young, funky, and fun. I've yet to see one in person, but I'm looking to drive one ASAP.
• MINI Countryman ALL4: Consider it the anti-Juke. I like it for all the same reasons.
• Ford Fiesta / Mazda 2: I was a little underwhelmed by the Fiesta, but I still love the guy. The Mazda is cheaper, more fun to drive, but I'm worried about the long-term outlook.
• Fiat 500 Sport: They go on sale in December. Problem is, the closest dealers would be in Chicago or Detroit (Three hours away). Pricing hasn't been announced yet either.
• Ford Mustang V6 w/Pony Package: As far as I can tell, it's the best performing car I can buy brand new, for a reasonable price. Furthermore, I'd get a discount at the local Ford dealer. And it would drive my Dad up a wall.

Long story short, I'm not in a rush, totally open to ideas, totally willing to have any kind of discussion. I realize that at my age (nearly 24), it is still pretty unrealistic to think that I can afford a brand-new car and a new apartment at the same time. I at least want to consider it. Better yet, some of the new cars I'd want are going to be used cars in not too long.

 

[Joey D]

With the MINI Countryman you don't need or really even want the ALL4, it's stupidly overpriced and still only AWD when you need it. It's also heavier and takes .4 seconds more to hit 60 then the FWD S.

Motoring File did a fairly extensive test of all the Countryman's that can be found here:

Comparison: Countryman Cooper, Cooper S & All4

In all honesty I don't know really if the the Countryman is the best fit for anyone other then a really small niche market. It will probably be my next vehicle though in FWD S trim with a couple of add on goodies and somewhere under $30k (hopefully). However when you are talking that money moving to a 3-series isn't out of the question, but the Countryman seems to be more inline with what I want out of a vehicle.

I haven't really seen much on the Juke, but it looks to be slightly cheaper and about 20 times uglier (which is a feat since the Countryman isn't really a looker either).

 

[Cale]

Honestly I'd go with the Goat.

 

[socomplayer2]

I vote for the for the Mark 5 gli for the sole reason that its almost like a more mature version of the gti. Boat loads of fun, smooth shifting and loads of torque for a 2 liter. But I've accepted the fact that, at least around here, most vw owners are young douchbags (like me) and you'll almost automatically be seen as one if you lower it and make it louder. But the vw scene may be different by you so t may not be an issue.


The s2000 I personally feel looks most mature and and shows people around you that "hey that guy drives a cool car with class". With that I know these cars are fun, well balanced and you can rev the tar out of them. I haven't personally driven one yet but my close friend is going to be picking an ap1 up within the next week or 2. So I'll let you know my opinion.


On the new cars.... *puts flame suit on*... the Juke actually looks like a fun and practical little, for the lack of a better word, thing. I don't know but the commercial almost makes me want one because they made it look like a nimble turbo-charged bug that zips around. I saw a video of the little display in it that monitors stuff like mpgs, boost and other stuff, looks really cool. I'll try to find a video for you. It could be garbage but I say go check it out at the dealer, I'm curious on what its like, as I usually dont like these mini, crossover-esqe vehicles. Also the Fiat would be cool too but I don't know too much about it.

EDIT:

This isn't the exact video but check out the "dynamic control center" in the juke, really cool.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--dZDgxWuUw

Another possible suggestion, e36 m3? If you pick up one with lower miles and a sorted out coolant system they seem to go for 250k or more.

 

[Tornado]

Get the 500. Or the Mustang.



Your 5-series BMW idea is good, but E39s are starting to get on in years, so you'd have to actively hunt for a low-mileage one. If you can find one, though, I'd say get one of those and forgo everything else.

 

[YSSMAN]

@JoeyD:
That's actually the best read-up I've seen on the new Coopers, thanks for the rad link. I had assumed the ALL4 was a full-time AWD system like what most of the Audis and Subarus are. Guess I was wrong. So, it's pretty much pointless unless it's winter. And that would be the main reason why I'd go with something like that. I'm looking forward to seeing one in person.

@Socomplayer2:
Volkswagens, for whatever reason, are really well-accepted here in West Michigan. No idea why. I do see a fair number of GTIs and GLIs at Grand Valley, and that's alright. I'd want one in silver or white with the plaid interior and a 6MT gearbox. Nothing too crazy. I wouldn't want to get into modifying it either.

@Toronado:
They're (the E39) getting old, and I know it. That's why I'm so hesitant in considering one. I'd love to have a big V8 sedan, and I'm rather surprised by how cheap they are these days.

Other than that, I'm looking into the Fiat as best I can. I just have to figure out where the hell the dealers are going to be.

RE: The Nissan Juke
Best I can figure, it's got everything that I want all in one package. I can jam all my friends in there, we can head out to the beach with all of our junk, and I'll manage to get some awesome MPGs on the way out. The only issue I have is that I have to get the CVT if I grab the AWD version. Crap.

 

[socomplayer2]

@JoeyD:


@Socomplayer2:
Volkswagens, for whatever reason, are really well-accepted here in West Michigan. No idea why. I do see a fair number of GTIs and GLIs at Grand Valley, and that's alright. I'd want one in silver or white with the plaid interior and a 6MT gearbox. Nothing too crazy. I wouldn't want to get into modifying it either.

RE: The Nissan Juke
Best I can figure, it's got everything that I want all in one package. I can jam all my friends in there, we can head out to the beach with all of our junk, and I'll manage to get some awesome MPGs on the way out. The only issue I have is that I have to get the CVT if I grab the AWD version. Crap.

Volkswagens in NJ are slowly becoming the new hondas. When I got mine I was different but within a year 5 other kids got mk5 gtis and most of them were turned into crap. I just feel that, here at least, there played out unfortunately. That doesn't mean they aren't fantastic little cars and are wonderful in stock form:tup:. Sorry for the rant that isn't relevant to your situation.

I can honestly say the Juke looks like the perfect all arounder, especially for what you say you want. Looking at the website, They seem to range from about 19k to 22.5k, and come standard with a 1.6l turbocharged motor with 188hp and a good sound system, I say check it out and build one. I know I am for fun.

 

[Keef]

The Juke is genius, I have to agree.

Recently you've read my interest in a particular older BMW, an E36 M3. I'm also interested in various other older cars. I have little interest in any new cars. They might look good and be less used and be more efficient, but I honestly don't think they're much "nicer" in many cases. For example, my mom's spanky new Corolla really doesn't offer anything that you can't get in a 1999 Civic. Really. At all. It has more boring.

The thing that super gets me about new cars is how b-i-g the interiors are. In my old Cavalier, Del Sol, Si, and my current RX7 the interiors are properly dimensioned to accommodate a person of my stature, but in the Corolla I have to take my left hand off the steering wheel and lean over just to reach the arm rest. I'm sorry, but if I can't even reach the damn arm rest I'm not going to buy the car, I don't care if it's got 500 horses and costs $500. I'd resell it, at most. I don't test drive new cars hardly ever, but I assume many of them have been suffering the same ballooning problem that makes them terribly inhabitable in my opinion.

You say you want something fun? Sporty? Young? Classy? Cool? Nice as all get-out? A buddy of mine recently bought himself a ~100,000 mile 2002 Lexus IS300 with a 5-speed. I'm so jealous that I make fun of it constantly. Me, preferring Japanese cars to German, very highly recommend the IS300. The 3-series is even more proper, but routine maintenance on that is even more expensive than the already pricey Lexus, probably more necessary depending on your generation, and I think the two cars have a bit of a different personality. I speak of tuning personality, of course: M3s have ITBs, yeah, that's cool. The Lexus has a 2JZGE, and all the Supra's internals bolt in. So yeah. Take your pick I suppose. I would probably choose the M3 based on performance, but if I were comparing a 325 or 330, the IS would probably get the nod.

The IS is the kind of car I want badly. To everyone else, you're driving a nice car, a Lexus, a luxury car, you're above the curve. But it's got a tuner side that nobody expects. It's a pretty serious machine. Same for the BMWs. Plus, I saw an IS drift through the parking lot last weekend and it was rad, so yeah, it might be a Lexus but it's pretty much the only sweet Lexus. Surprisingly inexpensive, too.

 

[Eric.]

IS300's a cool choice. I don't see them often, but I love it when I do.

GTO probably gets my approval. Only problem would be driving it in a Michigan winter I suppose. I don't know if I'd say they're holding their value though. For a $35k new price I see them selling for $15-20k quite often. I have a feeling you'd want a purple one.

 

[Keef]

I'm personally not a big fan of GTOs. They have lots of power, but the quality and refinement of the car in underwhelming. It's a Pontiac, too - in no way a symbol of status. It grabs attention, yes, but it won't make anybody immediately recognize you as an accomplished person driving a nice car. And then you won't be driving that nice of a car anyway, because it's a GTO.

Like I mentioned, interior design and quality are underwhelming compared to what could be had, maybe for a little extra. The manual transmission is a pig, whereas the Lexus I mentioned has a very smooth, easy to use manual that is less on the performance side of things and more on the luxury side of things. Don't get me wrong, it's good and proper, it gets my approval, but it's just nicer than the GTO's. Same probably goes for a BMW.

I'd like to return to the Juke for a second. I think I would like to have one, but that all depends on whether or not I can have both hands relaxed on the bottom of my steering wheel and still be able to reach both armrests with my elbows. If that didn't happen I would honestly cross it off my list and get something older with a smaller interior.

 

[Casio]

In before this thread gets to 47 pages.

 

[Sertsa]

Just a couple of things.
--Try not to see the car as an expression of whether or not you've made it or how far you've made it. Our culture is pretty much built around that, but I see both that and the effects of people stretching themselves too far to show they've made it. (I have a corporate job in a downtown area). This over-reaching becomes especially evident when shopping for used sports sedans, as I've come across a few that were owned by people who could not properly maintain them. (In that regard, if you see a BMW with the cheapest available tires, other things were probably done cheaply, as well).

So, I say, get a car that you love driving and want to spend time with, but one that's also practical for your purposes and you can afford to maintain well.

You mentioned an apartment. Will you have a place to store you car(s)? This will be especially important if you get something like a Miata or S2000 in a Michigan winter. You don't want to find three feet of snow collapsed the convertible top.

That said, here are some of the cars I personally like and think you should drive:
- Acura TSX - A very well put together luxury sports sedan. The first generation, at least (I haven't driven a second gen TSX). (An RSX-S would be cool, but insurance is absurd on those).
- Mazda 3, Mazdaspeed 3 and Miata (at least drive them to get a feel for how good they are in their respective classes)
- BMW 328i (Again, even if you're not ready to buy, it's a great benchmark).
- Infiniti G35/37 - It's kind of a luxury muscle car. If only it had steering feedback.
- Suzuki Kizachi - I haven't gotten a chance to drive one, but do you know anyone that has a Kizashi? Neither do I. It's reportedly fun to drive, well put together and more exclusive than a Jaguar.
- Mustang. Yup, drive a few. Be careful with the older ones, especially with the brakes. Since your dad has a '68 Camaro, I'll guess you know that classic muscle cars don't stop as quickly nor turn as readily as most modern cars. They also don't have e-nannies to correct for any mistakes.


Edit - If I were in your position, I'd probably put the Mazda 3 (in S trim, probably a hatchback) or even a Mazdaspeed highest on the list. If the new Ford Focus really does have more of a European feel, then you may want to consider that, as well.

 

[Tornado]

- Suzuki Kizachi - I haven't gotten a chance to drive one, but do you know anyone that has a Kizashi? Neither do I. It's reportedly fun to drive, well put together and more exclusive than a Jaguar.

Exclusive probably isn't the right word to use.

 

[YSSMAN]

Awesome feedback guys, keep it coming!

RE: Keef and the IS300
I never even thought of it. I honestly didn't. I'll have to look into some of the pricing and see how things are. I actually got to drive one aaaaages ago, and thought it to be alright. It'd be weird having another Toyota, that's for sure.

Anyone have experience with the IS and care to share?

RE: Sertsa, the TSX and the Mazda 3
My Dad actually has a three-stall barn that we just built to keep whatever extra car I have in the off-season. My grandparents have the same setup as well, so I have a few options if I go to a multi-car (or bike) setup. Otherwise, where I've been looking to move, they do have covered places to park the car, if it has a soft top that is.

Anyway, if I'm doing the TSX, it would have to be an OG model. I've never spent a lot of time around one, and I don't know much about them other than the common pieces they share with the Accord and Civic. Car and Driver loves to rant and rave about how nice they are to drive, so color me interested. I'd have to find one with a stick, and that may be hard around here.

As for the Mazda 3, I came about **this close** to buying one in the summer of 2008, so I've got a fair bit of experience with the car. It's definitely in the running if I go with something used, and I'd definitely have to find a 2008 or 2009 M3S Hatchback in purple if I did.



Does anyone know anything about the earlier bug-eyed WRX models? I always assume they've been beat to hell when I see them on the used car market, and I'm not too confident with grabbing one.

 

[Tornado]

What about a Goat?

Does anyone know anything about the earlier bug-eyed WRX models? I always assume they've been beat to hell when I see them on the used car market, and I'm not too confident with grabbing one.

That's probably a fairly accurate assumption to make, all things considering.

 

[Jondot]

I've basically lived in a Fiesta for the last month, and I'm not that amazed. I know they're all exciting and new in the US, but once that wears off it'll just be a small Ford and nothing more. Not a bad one, admittedly, but I think from time to time you'd wish you'd gone with a Juke. Or indeed pretty much anything else in this list. My money would be heading towards a Nissan or Fiat dealer, personally.

 

[ND4SPD]

Gran Turismo Omologato!

 

[Sertsa]

I test drove three TSXs, all first generation with six speeds. It's a long story why I wound up test driving three, but in the end, I couldn't quite buy any of them. Some of that has to do with the cars themselves (one was an example of being owned by someone who either couldn't afford to or didn't care to maintain it very well) or the dealer (I nearly bought the last one, but the sales guy decided to try cheeseball tactics to get me to not leave without signing something. It convinced me not to give him money). I at least found three fairly low milage, first gen TSXs with manual transmissions, though, and I'm in Northeast Ohio.

It's a very good car. Well put together, lively, planted and responsive, at least with the manual transmission, but it seemed just slightly dialed more toward luxury than sport for my preferences. You should definitely drive one if you get a chance. Still, though, I might actually like the Mazda 3 better. I'm thinking of test driving a 3 again, now that the TSXs, a BMW and a G35 are fairly fresh in my mind.

Anyway, on the bugeye WRX: Yes, it will be hard to find one that's not been beat, and I am extra concerned about buying a used turbocharged car. A few years ago, I had severely broken my left leg and needed an automatic, so I was checking out an NADA off-lease auction at a dealer preview (I'm not a dealer, but I was there with one) They had a bugeye WRX and dealers were waiting their turn to hoon it around the lot / testing area. I regretted the injury even more, since I couldn't try it out, but I realized that even dealers will hammer WRXs.

Edit - I have been trying to find a last gen Subaru Legacy GT with a manual to test. They're a little more "grown up" than a WRX, but not much. The current versions are far too big for my preferences.

If you really want something unique, Mazda RX-8s are surprisingly inexpensive on the used market, but I'm guessing that's partly because people discovered that they drink a lot of premium gas, need a quart of oil every second fill-up or so and very few people know how to work on them. They're still awesome, however.

 

[Paulie]

You want the GTO or the brand spankers V6 Mustang, hells yes.

 

[Eric.]

Keef, I'm gonna disagree with the quality of the GTO. I've only driven an automatic, a friend has a six speed one and he has said the shifting is pretty bad, but there are ways to fix it. Nothing else in this thread will be as fun to stomp the go-pedal in as the GTO. Nor sound as good doing it.

 

[Leonidae@MFT]

Is a V6 Camaro out of question? Personally I'd prefer that to the Ford.

 

[Paulie]

Is a V6 Camaro out of question? Personally I'd prefer that to the Ford.

*Reads and re-reads that, rubs eyes.* Coming from Leonidae?!

Seriously though, I thought YSSMAN was a big fan of Corvettes, I'm sure you could get yourself a nice second-hand one and have a faster car that gets more respect than most of those cars. A lightly modified Vette is very young and energetic.

 

[Joey D]

I think the only people who own Vette's in Michigan are middle aged men who went through a mid life crisis.

 

[Leonidae@MFT]

*Reads and re-reads that, rubs eyes.* Coming from Leonidae?!

As a former Ford owner ( I got the reservation ticket for a place in heaven due the hell I experienced on earth during the Ford ownership), I can't do much else than choose the lesser of two evils. Besides, Camaro looks better and that V6 has very European, almost Alfa Romeo-like soundtrack. And it has the IRS.. Yes, it's heavier. Yes, it has less power. But I don't think that Yssman is bothered by that. He isn't 50+ guy who wants to relive his past and purchase shiny red retro pony. He just wants a daily driver.

 

[Tornado]

As a former Ford owner ( I got the reservation ticket for a place in heaven due the hell I experienced on earth during the Ford ownership), I can't do much else than choose the lesser of two evils. Besides, Camaro looks better and that V6 has very European, almost Alfa Romeo-like soundtrack. And it has the IRS.

And despite that, it handles and rides worse than the Mustang does.

 

[Leonidae@MFT]

So? Cars like this aren't bought because of the spec sheet.

Oh, and as another bonus, Camaro wouldn't cause his dad a heart attack..

 

[YSSMAN]

If I were comparing the 2011 Mustang to the 2011 Camaro, I'd be more likely to go with the Ford. The look, performance and fuel economy is a fair bit better, and with things staying as they are, I'm guessing the resale value would hold up a bit better on the Mustang. That being said, with the Camaro having been around for nearly two years now, I could probably pick up a used one for a decent price. A Camaro RS V6 wouldn't be terrible if I could track one down with a stick, but that's where I jump into yet another problem.

The GTO is still around. It's still a pretty sensible yardstick for that segment of cars. Values are holding steady in the mid-teens, and I get arguably better bits and pieces in an older car.


I dunno. I'd have to look into insurance too. In all honesty, that's probably going to be the deciding factor in a lot of things. Strangely, cars like the S2000 seem to cost very little month-to-moth.

 

[Tornado]

So? Cars like this aren't bought because of the spec sheet.

I fail to see how things like ride quality and handling feel are spec sheet material. The Camaro rides... oddly (it feels sure-footed, but at the same time it doesn't), and the steering is vague and unconnected like the older Corvettes were. The Mustang has neither of these problems, with some rare exceptions (basically, only if you go out of your way to try to make the rear suspension feel darty does it feel worse than the Camaro).
Furthermore, as Brad himself mentioned, if he was going to get the Camaro he might as well just get the GTO, which also handles and rides better than the Camaro does, but is faster, cheaper and (in my experience) a lot easier to drive.

 

[Omnis]

Ride a Vespa to your job at DSW. You will be the ultimate hipster sausage magnet.

 

[YSSMAN]

...And all I need is this helmet...