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[kcheeb]

Therefore, the points were recorded and calculated with good ol' pen and paper, and it failed us. Please click here to view the updated results.

The public Google Doc will be updated shortly so that everyone can dissect the new results to verify that they're correct.

Oddly, the pen and paper was correct, it was my incorrect scoring premise, doh! My bad and apologies, now I know.

The score keeping would not be in question (even if done with good ole' pen & paper) if the point system wasn't a sliding scale.

I understand that it's been this way from the start of the league and that's fine, but everything evolves or dies. I'm not the only one who sees a problem with the current point system.

I've been thinking on the sliding scale versus fixed scale scoring system and am leaning towards the fixed scale. It makes the spreadsheets a tad simpler to calculate and will make week to week score comparisons relevant. I'm not fussed on which numbers are used, Devious example or 16 down to 1.

Honestly, I have no strong preference either way, just saw a couple of benefits and I'm all for improving 👍

Although, I did have a preference last night as I was trying to figure out the scores manually

 

[zer05ive]

As I recall, Zero was saying that DLC Tracks would be okay but not the DLC cars, as most people would have the tracks. I've been itchin' to run SPA since Zero had mentioned the DLC track comment a few weeks ago. I asked Zero last week about the DLC track and his response was Not this week, because of the prolonged protest issues of last week. There doesn't seem to be that issue this week, so I thought I'd ask Zero again. I REALLY Wanna run SPA!!

Let's table the DLC track discussion for at least one more week please. There are too many "hot topics" right now that the last thing I want to do is add another one to the thread. People complain all the time about not being able to keep up with the thread, so they don't try. That's not what we want.

When we do decide to bring that up for vote/discussion, it would have to be brought up well in advance of any decision being made. I could put a poll up for example, but we'd have to give everyone one week at minimum to reply to it. Either way, Spa is unfortunately not an option this week.

 

[M1SS-D3V10US]

Soooo if they both disagree who should it be forced to for a ruling? General vote? I dont get the point of this line of discussion. Whether its all or nothing, or swapping points, if they both disagree its going to have to go to the stewards. This is also why I dont like not being able to bring up something that the stewards have found outside of just the filed grievances. Being able to dock someone even if there is no grievance, but is found in review (something like cutting sections of track for example) to be out of OLR would further impress the need and want to follow the OLR.

I'm saying that the "All of Nothing" policy is fine for the stewards ruling. My point is, if both driver feel they didn't do anything that warrants a protest, and their choice are "ALL or NOTHING" it will go to Stewards every time. I think there needs to be a middle ground for the drivers to work things out on their own and compromise. If one of the driver is not willing to entertain the idea of a compromise, then it will always go to the Stewards. I cannot be the only one who sees this?!?

As for your questions, should the stewards step in if the drivers are not able to work it out, Yes. That's the job of the stewards. I wasn't talking down about the stewards position in a protest. It's just that I have already witnessed in the past, if both feel they are in the right (regardless if they are or not) it will go to the stewards.

 

[Vol Jbolaz]

I miss half a day, and there are three pages, and lots of PMs, and other stuff...

Real Quick:

* I like non-linear points just because I like the difference between 1st and second to be more important than the difference between next-to-last and last.

* As to the points based on the number of drivers, that will matter if I have a nine point lead over you in a ten driver room. If you get first and I get last, then you'll tie me. All I have to do is not be last to beat you. If a driver drops out, then it doesn't matter what I do, I beat you. I'll still get at least one if I'm last and now you'll only get nine. I can see rational for awarding points based on the number of drivers that started. Mind you, if that driver left before the race started, we are still back to I don't have to work as hard. So maybe fixed points per place make sense.

* I'll go check on the spreadsheet and help make sure they are right and everything is available for you to see where we have it right now. I know there are some outstanding protests.

* My PS3 is not healthy. Two replays were corrupted for me last night. It won't boot on the first time any more. It locks up and I have to power it down and start it again, then it does the integrity check. Sometimes, it won't even turn itself off, it locks up and I have to power it off. I am afraid it is going to completely melt. I need to find some sort of disk maintenance utility. I know it can reformat itself, but then I suspect I lose all of my DLC, not just the stuff from this game, but anything from PlayStation Plus or the gifts from Sony for being down last summer. I need to do some more research.

 

[Apmaddock]

The score keeping would not be in question (even if done with good ole' pen & paper) if the point system wasn't a sliding scale.

I'm upset about this sliding point scale. It's clear to me that this slide points scale has proven the point I made a couple post back. As a result, it move me out of the top spot.

Just... no....

Again, examples:

If you were five points out of the lead going into the last race, you had to beat Mopar by six places to win. If he dropped, you had to win a six man race or beat five people in a race of more people.

If Mopar was granted free points for starting but not finishing, the same would hold true. Only the point numbers would be different.

 

[Apmaddock]

I know it can reformat itself, but then I suspect I lose all of my DLC, not just the stuff from this game, but anything from PlayStation Plus or the gifts from Sony for being down last summer. I need to do some more research.

If you've downloaded it or purchased it you can do so again on the same account.

I know. I have. This is my second PS3.

 

[Rallywagon]

I'm still confused as to your position here. Driver a says " He hit me." Driver b says " No I didnt, I had the right of way" they have 48 hours to figure it out, then the steward do it. What else do you need? they have time to work it out, we step up in a timely manner if they can't... Ohhh, I see, because driver B cant just say "Oh, your right, how about I take the points you got." Here's my counter, often, two people aren't the only ones who get affected. 3, 4, 5, a lot of people can get pulled into the event and lose any number of positions. With what you might be suggesting, the offending party will go to the lowest position of the affected, and the lowest will take his spot, but what of all the other possible racers that got affected, they are SOL, and still lose the spot. where as an all or nothing, the offender gets dropped. everything is left as even as possible.

 

[Apmaddock]

Alright. I'll show mine. At least my ping is decent.

 

[Rallywagon]

If you've downloaded it or purchased it you can do so again on the same account.

I know. I have. This is my second PS3.

Except the extras from when the PSN went down. Those where time based and no longer available, even for restoration I do not believe.

 

[Rallywagon]

Upload .37? Man, no wonder you have issues!

 

[Hogster-iR]

Ahhh, Hogster, that is a good idea, and gets to the heart of one of my lines of debate that I didnt use above. This would essentially be like a black flag, just administered after the race. I see this as having potential. Its not like its a lot of extra data to throw into the raw race data for the records keeper, those number munchin fellows. And the negated time could be adjusted to fit the situation. Of course this negates the all or nada policy, but is better then a points swap system.

It's not an all or nothing, but can be be nearly that if the time penalty is great enough. Most races have everyone finishing within 30 seconds (I said MOST. Don't nail me down on it), so a 30 second penalty is essentially a death penalty.

Scorekeepers would be required to record gap data to effectively apply said penalties. And if an infraction affected multiple drivers, the time penalty could be increased accordingly. If we're going to have stewards reviewing replays anyway, it seems this system would be fairly easy to institute.

 

[Vol Jbolaz]

I'm putting down the best/gap times for D3, and I am reminded of something that happened that bugs me. Turn 1 at Nurburgring and someone ghosted through me and left the corner before me. I don't think the contact was my fault. So... because I did good, I lost a spot.

Mind you, I wrecked myself later, so it didn't matter, but the penalty system is teh suxors.

Alright. I'll show mine. At least my ping is decent.

Your ISP is a wireless provider? Probably 3G? That is likely your problem, not your upload throughput. At the time of that test, your latency was only 19 ms, but it can fluctuate wildly with an over-the-air ISP.

Except the extras from when the PSN went down. Those where time based and no longer available, even for restoration I do not believe.

That sucks giant donkeys.

 

[Apmaddock]

Upload .37? Man, no wonder you have issues!

Yeah. That's where the problem is. I think I'm paying for .66 upload. When I upgraded a month or so ago, I only got a token increase in upload, but it really seems to have been enough to stave off most issues. Just a little cooperation in getting all of the peer-to-peer connections together and typically everything is golden.

 

[Apmaddock]

Your ISP is a wireless provider? Probably 3G? That is likely your problem, not your upload throughput. At the time of that test, your latency was only 19 ms, but it can fluctuate wildly with an over-the-air ISP.

They're only kind of wireless... as in they don't sell phones or the like. Only internet. It's the best option we've got out here in the sticks. Trust me. I've tried several.

I'm actually on a 4G connection now. It is miles better than the 2G or 3G that I was on before (not certain which). With that I got NAT type 3. I'm type 2, now.

My latency has always been good with every test I've done. Never worse than about 20, and sometimes into the single digits.

The only thing that I could do to improve things is pay more for more throughput. There's even an option for a "business class" plan that gives my connection priority. I don't think I want to pay that much more, though. hehe.

 

[Chiochan]

http://www.speedtest.net/result/1911952392.png
while watching netflix on ps3. not to bad.

 

[Rallywagon]

You all ready for Monday Mayhem!!! Its on in ten! So get there

I'll be in momentarily.

 

[M1SS-D3V10US]

Let's table the DLC track discussion for at least one more week please. There are too many "hot topics" right now that the last thing I want to do is add another one to the thread. People complain all the time about not being able to keep up with the thread, so they don't try. That's not what we want.

When we do decide to bring that up for vote/discussion, it would have to be brought up well in advance of any decision being made. I could put a poll up for example, but we'd have to give everyone one week at minimum to reply to it. Either way, Spa is unfortunately not an option this week.

...you said "next week" last week.

*sigh*

...i understand



[rant]
Okay. I'm a little puzzled. Why you would say yes to DLC tracks would be okay in a lounge to me and at least 3 others weeks ago and then keep on the back burner for so long? I completely understand about there being other priorities the league needs before opening other tracks for general selection. I totally get it, but I asked you weeks ago about DLC Tracks. [/rant]

*sigh*

Now that That is out of my system....
I understand the need to vote or do a poll or whatever voodoo it takes to get this ball rolling. Why couldn't the vote have been called for weeks ago? I've really been eager to run SPA after talking to you about this topic. If I had known it would have taken this long to get the things started, I would have asked the DLC track question the first night. Okay, so a vote thingie or whatever is going to get called next week with a week to for everyone to reply - so effectively making it months from the time I asked you about the DLC Tracks until we have a final word on it? It's just frustrating, but I understand.

💡
If the intention was to call for a vote to get things started then why did you bother to answer the DLC question weeks ago? Or, at the very least why didn't you tell us (all of us in the lounge that night) then about the needed steps to take to make this happen, instead of waiting until now? *sigh*

 

[diabolicwyvern]

So, with all the laggy-ness and other network issues we had this week, do we want to talk about designating hosts for the rooms? I know that Diabolic, Zero, and Garris are the "hosts" of the room, but maybe we should get some bandwidth statistics from everyone and see who would make the best hosts in each division. It's been my experience from Lemons and 450PP club racing that when someone who I know has a large amount of bandwidth hosts the room, network issues are minimized. I'll start with the sharing.

I was 8.3 and 1.2. No idea what that means though. The closest spot they found to ping was hundreds of miles away...is that normal. I'm in St. Louis and they are testing with Springfield? My ping was 155ms which seems high.

I just thought of something. I recently, about 3 weeks ago started using Utorrent and I'm constantly downloading and uploading on my laptop top gear episodes. Is that hurting me even though its my laptop and not the PS3? I've already got the episodes I want I was keeping them seeded so folks who take them from me (give a penny take a pennt sort of deal) If I remove all those so I'm not actively helping upload/download will that fix me up?

 

[dabneyd]

I was 8.3 and 1.2. No idea what that means though. The closest spot they found to ping was hundreds of miles away...is that normal. I'm in St. Louis and they are testing with Springfield? My ping was 155ms which seems high.

I just thought of something. I recently, about 3 weeks ago started using Utorrent and I'm constantly downloading and uploading on my laptop top gear episodes. Is that hurting me even though its my laptop and not the PS3? I've already got the episodes I want I was keeping them seeded so folks who take them from me (give a penny take a pennt sort of deal) If I remove all those so I'm not actively helping upload/download will that fix me up?

You can pick the site you want to use if you click on the map.

You should turn off your downloads when you're trying to play any games online. The reason it affects your connection quality is because even though you may only be uploading a little bit of data at a time, your computer and router have to maintain a whole lot of connections to keep the torrent data flowing. These connections cost your router memory, which degrades its performance, along with having to work in managing your PS3's connection to the room server and all the torrent connections. So, yeah, shut off uTorrent, jackhole.

 

[diabolicwyvern]

How do I shut it off? I'm not currently downloading anything, but I have 4 seasons in 1080i that people pull from me. I got rid of two of them and my ping is down to 45ms but my speeds are only up to 10 and 2. I'll just remove them all. I'm helping others, but then hurting others as well.

I just hit stop on all of them.

Ping down to 41ms and speeds now 12ish/2ish

 

[dabneyd]

Yeah, that's all you have to do; close the application, or hit the pause button.

 

[Vol Jbolaz]

In the uTorrent configurations you can schedule when it is active. I have my limit bandwidth during the day when I'm working, and off completely in the evenings when I race.

Having a bit torrent client will cause a lot of packet collisions. That contributes to latency and that will kill your gaming. Again, throughput doesn't matter. Each client you are seeding to has overhead and is its own packet stream.

If you notice other problems, you can also configure uTorrent to limit the number of connections it will maintain at any time, which will improve network performance dramatically. You can also have it limit the amount of bandwidth it uses.

 

[dabneyd]

Also, make sure you encrypt your bittorrent downloads.

 

[tezgm99]

I would post my speedtest results....but I think my friends would beat me up since it's their connection and it's rather sucky in comparison to my one at home

Should be back tomorrow, stayed an extra day to help them out around the place a little bit.

I'm constantly downloading and uploading on my laptop top gear episodes.

I'm mean, I just d/l them and that's it since I got what I wanted

Edit: I see your addition to the GT5 meme thread, Ap

 

[JLBowler]

Here's my two cents and you can take it for what it's worth, which is much less than two cents.

The point system is fine the way it is. I think it could be made a little simpler by switching to a fixed scale from 16 down in one point increments. Either way, it's not rocket science to figure out where you need to finish to protect a lead.

The all or nothing penalty is meant to be a deterent to agressive driving much like fixing your car is a deterent to agressive driving in real life. I organized multiple racing series for a different league on prologue and gt5 and these were our only rules for on track incidents: If you didn't get it cleanly according to OLR then you need to give the spot back during the race. If you ghost for reason other than penalty, you may not drive through any other cars. Failure to follow these rules would result in DQ from race. It was very simple. The racing was very competitive and over the course of two and a half years, one on track incident had to be settled by a commitee of stewards. The only reason that incident even went to the stewards is becasue it occured on the last lap at Daytona SS and there wasn't time to handle it during the race.

My point is, if everyone is willing and able to follow the simple rules that are put out there, there really isn't a need for the much more complex rules that are starting to leak into this organization (such as a formal protest procedure). I come from dirt tracks and the only protest procedure we have for on track incidents is me showing up at your hauler after the race wanting to know what the hell happened. 99.9% of the time it's handled right there like respectful individuals and we go share a pitcher of beer. Common courtesy can go a long way toward keeping things running smoothly.

 

[zer05ive]

I have no problem with DLC, but I defer to the Mighty Cipher on those issues.

(I just got this..)

 

[zer05ive]

Close finish for second! .002 seconds!

Nice shot, but I would like to protest the result of this race! I had an extra thick license plate holder installed before this race. Shouldn't not be considered part of my car?

 

[dvdoughboy]

Here's mine

 

[racefan78]

I've wondered about the sliding points scale ever since I joined, and I never really liked it, but this is the first time I've seen it actually effect the outcome of the total points total. I think a fixed scale makes much more sense. For insance, due to the sliding scale, I scored the same number of points for finishing 6th in race two as I did for finishing 1st in race six.

 

[esh]

They're only kind of wireless... as in they don't sell phones or the like. Only internet. It's the best option we've got out here in the sticks. Trust me. I've tried several.

I'm actually on a 4G connection now. It is miles better than the 2G or 3G that I was on before (not certain which). With that I got NAT type 3. I'm type 2, now.

My latency has always been good with every test I've done. Never worse than about 20, and sometimes into the single digits.

The only thing that I could do to improve things is pay more for more throughput. There's even an option for a "business class" plan that gives my connection priority. I don't think I want to pay that much more, though. hehe.

After I left the lounge the second time and you became host I couldn't reconnect. Network incompatibility with host. Do you have UPnP enabled? I restarted my PS3 and confirmed my router was allowing UPnP but by the time I had reconnected you were no longer the host.