My Saab's going away soon... EDIT: Need W124 Info!

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High-Test

High-Test

4,735
Israel
Kansas City, MO
FlyingAGasoline
My Dad, Stepmom, and I have finally agreed that the Saab that I've been driving needs to go. Let me explain why: It's had a reputation for being unreliable. It went through two entire transmissions with my stepmom when it was only a year old. (It's a 2003 9-3) Now, it has something go wrong with it every three months. A sensor here, a pump there, etc. it goes through O2 sensors and Wiper fluid motors like toilet paper. Now, it has no idea how much gas it has, and stops running anywhere when the needle is inbetween a half and a quarter. Since we've owned it when it was new, it has been too much of a liability. It's far too expensive for a college kid to have to get it looked at and fixed every few months. And, EVERYTHING about that car is expensive. No matter where I look, I'm forced to go back to the dealer for the dumb little parts to keep it satisfied. And Finally, It's so much of a hypochondriac that a warning will pop up on that blasted "infotainment" system, and the car won't move. Sometimes it won't start, sometimes it will lock the transmission. Then, the message goes away. Andthe car starts functioning. So, here comes the ubiquitous phrase of this forum: I'm looking for a new car.

I desperately want something reliable. My lexus had a wire melt somewhere, and it died. The bottom end of my Beloved '60 Chevy's motor fell apart three weeks after I finally got it back. Now, The Saab 9-3 I've put 20,000 miles on last year is either starting to die or acting like it.

Here are a few things I'm considering that seem to be reliable:

Early 90s Toyota Pickup -Indestructible
87-93 Volvo 240 -B230, Baby. Read above.
Honda Accord -It's a Honda. It's genetically incapable of being unreliable.

One thing I appreciate about that Saab is the fact that it gets 26-35 miles per gallon. I want to hang on to my precious mileage when the USA is starting to feel the rest of the world's crude oil blues.

That leaves the Honda, the Volvo, and probably the Toyota pickup.


I feel as though I'm writing a Novel.

Here's what I'm looking for:

**** Good Gas mileage
*****Reliablity
***Good in the Snow I'll probably be going to North Dakota State University Next year.
*** Ample storage space
** Rear wheel drive

I haven't been given a budget yet, but Odds are it will be $6000 or less.

I'm seriously considering a Volvo 240 Station Wagon. Does anybody have any other suggestions? Reasons to stay away from a 240? something that's a completely better option that my three listed?

I want some input from people who seem to have a vast knowledge about cars.
 
High-Test
I want some input from people who seem to have a vast knowledge about cars.
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Unfortunately, you're going to get my opinion instead.

No Toyota pickup. The resale values of those things are so high that they're simply not worth what they're being priced at; for the $6,000 you want to spend you'd have to settle for a very old (slow, very worn) Toyota pickup, or you could get a decent Accord, as you've mentioned. Yes - the truck would run forever, but the Accord would run for the life of your ownership. In 1996, Honda added a potent 170-horse 2.7-liter V6 to the Accord, and that'd be the one to get (though it's automatic-only) - I believe those are well under $6,000 by now. If you don't want the six-cylinder, which gets superb fuel economy, consider a 1997 EX model, although stay away from the 1998 (prices are too high, since it was the first year of that design).

I'd also consider an Acura Integra, staying away from the high-performance GS-R model which is fun but has killer insurance. Find an un-modded sedan ('94-'01 design) and you'll do great. Front-drive, but a better handler than the Accord (though that '96-'97 Accord V6 isn't horrible to drive). I'd also suggest at least looking at Toyota cars and possibly even a '92-'97 Lexus ES300, though you seem to have a slight pre-disposition against Lexus.

Do you live in North Dakota?
If so - where do you service your Saab?
 
Your Saab doesn't sound like the rest of them. My step-mom had a 98 9-5, no problems whatsoever until she sold it at about 150k miles. I'd say avoid the older Volvo, because parts will get really expensive.

Now, heres a good one.
Beating Doug to the punch here....





How about a W124 Mercedes E-Class? Look good, run well, and very comfy. They're everywhere too.

[/thread]
 
:lol: Kellah is always quick to say [/thread]...

I would've said something like an older model of the Subaru Impreza, but you said RWD. :ouch:

What RWD is good in snow? I don't know... FF's can do better in snow, due to the fact that the weight is at the front, and you can steer the wheels to get you out. Don't think of getting a ford mustang for snow. The Volvo 240 isn't too bad in snow, but I don't think the mileage is that great, considering it's heaviness. Also older cars tend to eat up more gas if you don't maintain it good enough. But what RWD is really good in snow? Maybe a Rear engined Rear wheel drive car. Where do you live? Maybe you should get a Toyota MR2 like me. :D They can handle snow a bit, mileage isn't too shabby, and has a cool factor to it. :cool:
 
That was really a pseudo-sarcastic comment, just to clarify things. Its just like the MR2, except more expensive. Also the MR2 has less room then your shaving kit.
 
I would definitely look into a 4 cylinder accord or integra ls. Even though they arent RWD, they are plenty reliable and will get excellent gas mileage,
 
I live in Kansas. I'm 97% sure that I'll be going to NDSU. My Heart says Volvo 240, but my mind wants to check every possible avenue first. RWD Good in snow? Well, if one drives properly, anything is good in snow.
 
High-Test
RWD Good in snow? Well, if one drives properly, anything is good in snow.
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Usually? No. Volvo 240? Yes. I've had several friends who ran 240s and 244s just fine in the snow - they're heavy and exceptionally slow, so they're okay. I would suggest snow tires, though.
 
I'm surprised you had so much troubles with your Saab, they're very reliable as far as I know since we've had two of them (9000 Aero, 900 SE) and we've never had any troubles with it...

Anyway, I'd say go for the Honda unless you find a Toyota very cheap and in good state 👍
 
Thanks for all of the input, guys.

I've nixed the Toyota pickup from my list, due to a previous comment that made good sense. Being in a prosperous area, EVERY Acura Integra I can find has been molested by some kid at some point in time. I'm crossing that one off my list. Someone said to avoid the Volvo because of parts costs, yet suggested a Mercedes!? Riiight. I'll still look into it, because It's German. Therefore it won't ever die.

I really do appreciate the input, even though I may be picking every suggestion apart. :)

M5Power
I'd also suggest at least looking at Toyota cars and possibly even a '92-'97 Lexus ES300, though you seem to have a slight pre-disposition against Lexus.
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- I had a '92 SC300 that was bested by a melted wire or a massive short somewhere. I loved that car, but the cost to repair it was far more than what the car was worth.

TuneRVisioN
The Volvo 240 isn't too bad in snow, but I don't think the mileage is that great, considering it's heaviness.
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It can't be that bad.. Where I live, 26 and up is fantastic. A Close friend has a 940 Turbo, and she gets over 30 highway. I would figure a non-Turbo 240 would do as good, if not better. The Volvo is a Tank. Like the E Class, it's completely over-engineered, and we get to benefit from that.

Here is my current list of options:

96-97 Honda Accord 4cyl or V6 - A friend has a 97 V6, and despite him driving like an Idiot and beating the crap out of that car, it refuses to give in. It's actually a very fun drive, Despite it's still the No-Nonsense Accord.

87-93 Volvo 2 series - Does anybody know much about these? Every one I see is in my price range, and for being Volvos, most of them don't have as much mileage as I would have thought. I'm really attracted to these, I think it's the idiom that a can of oil, a screwdriver, and a hammer for rust will keep a 240 running indefinitely.

W124 E Class - Are the parts for this one magically cheaper than those of its brothers and sisters? My mom had a 560SL, and the distributor cap and wires would have been eight hundred dollars. Needless to say, the car had forklift spark plug wires when it was sold. (That's a long story..)

92-97 ES300 - Toyota reliability with Mercedes Parts charges! I don't think I'd find one in my price range, but I'll look.

EDIT: http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.j...oors=&transmission=&max_price=7000&cardist=13
:drool: It's in my price range, but I probably wouldn't buy that one until I'm absolutely sure that's the avenue I want to go down. Is 4900 dollars a normal price for one of those? Or.. should I be worried as to why it's selling for that low of a price? There are Several W124 owners here, how expensive are parts?
 
I thought you said reliability was your main concern? A Mercedes with 181,000 miles can't have much longer to go, can it? Or did they work better back then?
 
That's the average price I'm finding in my area for this model. There are a few with 100,000 miles as well. I guess they worked better back then, the W124 was the last car they purposely Over-engineered, they wanted to save money on the later ones.
 
Mista Kellah
The W124s will run till the end of time, right Doug? Wheres Land Sea Air when you need him...
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The W124 Mercedes is, in my view, the most reliable premium vehicle ever manufactured and honestly I would place it in the top ten of the most solid automobiles ever made - alongside vehicles like the Toyota pickup. The phrase 'they don't make 'em like they used to' is often applied to old domestic cars, but the very same phrase could easily be applied to the new E-class relative to the W124.

100,000 miles in a W124 is child's play; 200,000 is definitely possible and 300,000 is about where I'd start to get worried that something legitimate might brake.

For the record, given the mileage of that particular W124 (the E320W) you showed, $4900 seems a bit high, however a 1994-1995 W124 will be the best model as it was the newest. Regardless, any W124 is going to hold up, though I'd avoid the diesels based solely on the fact that they're slow. Frankly I think if you could find a 120,000 mile 1994-1995 E320 sedan, you'd be golden. For the record, it was renamed 'E320' in '94 along with Mercedes' model changeovers, prior to that it was '300E'. Wagons will be referred to as '300TE' and then simply 'E320' beginning in 1994. 4Matic all-wheel drive was available; it's common here in Colorado but probably rare elsewhere. The W124's last year was 1995, replaced in 1996 by the also solid but less so W210. V8 models were available - the '400E' and later 'E420' came out in 1992 and is today known as the 'E550;' also from 1992 to 1995 there was the '500E,' later 'E500;' that model goes for well over $10k today, was co-developed with Porsche, and is a predecessor of today's E63 AMG. You could probably afford a '92-'93 400E and maybe even a '94 E420, but repair costs are higher so I'd look at just the models with the straight sixes.

EDIT:
W124 E Class - Are the parts for this one magically cheaper than those of its brothers and sisters? My mom had a 560SL, and the distributor cap and wires would have been eight hundred dollars. Needless to say, the car had forklift spark plug wires when it was sold. (That's a long story..)
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Parts won't be cheap, but everyone is in agreement about one thing: they just won't die. If you don't keep them in perfect shape, stuff will start to break. Stuff under the hood will eventually break too. But don't worry - save nuclear holocaust, the thing is going to keep going. Maybe not as powerfully, maybe not as perfectly, but it'll start every time you turn the key. They're solid.
 
We (well, my mum and her other half) had a W124 230 for about 3-4 years, and it had 220,000 miles on it when we bought it for £1,500. It breezed every MOT (an annual car road-worthiness test for those unfamiler with the term) and was just stuttering towards the end, with 260,000 miles on the clock, when it got traded in for a Mk2 Clio. Recommended.
 
Keef
I thought you said reliability was your main concern? A Mercedes with 181,000 miles can't have much longer to go, can it? Or did they work better back then?
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As Doug said, pretty much every late 80's Mercedes simply will not break. Ever. They are like the Noah's ark of the car world.* If you have ever heard the phrase "the old Mercedes-Benz," it is referring to everything developed before the R129 SL-Class. The cars may seem expensive for the mileage; but none of them (be it the W124, W201 or W160) will ever strand you somewhere without at least 25,000 miles of warning before it happens.
It is essentially the upscale version of the 240 you suggested, and you really can't go wrong with any of them. The only major advantage that the Volvo would have on them is better gas mileage; and on the off chance that either does break, cheaper parts.






*This doesn't really apply to the R107 SL, but those are 70's cars anyways.
TuneRVisioN
The Volvo 240 isn't too bad in snow, but I don't think the mileage is that great, considering it's heaviness.
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What are you talking about? 240s weighed less than 3000 pounds even in U.S. spec.
Mistah Kellah
I'd say avoid the older Volvo, because parts will get really expensive.
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Volvo 240s are about as difficult to keep running as a VW Bus is, so long as you avoid the PRV. Parts are not that expensive either, because they made so many of them.
High-Test
I'm really attracted to these, I think it's the idiom that a can of oil, a screwdriver, and a hammer for rust will keep a 240 running indefinitely.
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Your right, and that is essentially the case as well.
M5Power
The W124 Mercedes is, in my view, the most reliable premium vehicle ever manufactured
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I dunno. I'd probably give that accolade to the W201, with the W124 nipping at its heels (see next point for explanation).
M5Power
maybe even a '94 E420, but repair costs are higher so I'd look at just the models with the straight sixes.
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Isn't the 4.2L a version of the engine that kept blowing up in the ML class? Or was that a different one?



So, my suggestion/reccomendation? Mercedes W124 or W201, or a non-V6 Volvo 240. All of them will be reliable almost to a fault, very safe and pretty nice on the inside, too.
 
Now, here's the Kicker:

Many of the 95 E320s in my area were under 120,000 miles. One was 100,000, one was 107,000, and one was 102,000.

The 240s I've seen have mileage around that same number, believe it or not.

I talked to service people from both a Volvo and a Mercedes dealership today, and got some info about each one.

Volvo - The Service guy said that many 89-93 240s have bad starters, and some could have problems in the wiring harness somewhere. The Harness runs around three to five hundred dollars.

Mercedes - THe Service rep I talked to actually has had two W124s, and said that the only way to tell if it's a good car is to either do a history report, or bring him the VIN number to do a dealership search to see what the dealers have had to do to it. He said that several of these cars are running around "almost new" and others look great but have been wrecked four times and rebuilt. He said to watch for Climate control problems. Other than that, "They're bulletproof."

It seems that I'll need more stuff in the front end to make sure that a 240 would stay running. But, if an E320 breaks, I'll be paying dearly for parts. THe problem with a 240 is even finding the parts, outside of vlvworld.

I guess It may come down to preference... That will be hard.
 
I'd say you should go for a W124, god couldn't kill one hismelf if he tried. I'd love to get a W124 sometime in my life, preferably a 500E. Did I mention how sexy these cars are?
 
You sure? Last time I checked the Volvo 240 GLT Estate weighed in at over 1800Kg. Ahh maybe they made a typo. Is he talking about the wagon? Or is there a sedan/coupe version I don't know about?
 
TuneRVisioN
You sure? Last time I checked the Volvo 240 GLT Estate weighed in at over 1800Kg. Ahh maybe they made a typo. Is he talking about the wagon? Or is there a sedan/coupe version I don't know about?
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Which means you went by what GT4 said. And GT4 was only off in the Volvo's weight by about, eh, 500kg or so.
 
So do what they told you to do High Test, take down the VIN's, pay whatever fees you must, and if they come back clean, buy it. :)
 
I'll Test drive both at a used car place, now that I've been given the go-ahead by my dad. The problem will be actually finding a 240 anymore.. There were loads of them a month ago, now I can't find a single one.
 
Diesel. Mercedes.
Get a W123 or W126 body Mercedes. Think the same that's being said about the W124, but with the OM617 diesel or turbodiesel that will run a little past the end of time. I'm quite sure this applies for the diesels that were available in the W124, as well.
 
M5Power
UI'd also suggest at least looking at Toyota cars and possibly even a '92-'97 Lexus ES300, though you seem to have a slight pre-disposition against Lexus.
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Even I don't recommend a 1992-96 ES 300. They're problematic, unless it's a low-mileage one. You're just getting an old Camry with leather and sunroof, and virtually no suspension differences at that point. Stepping up to a 1997-2001 model is an improvement in handling, but some parts get a bit more expensive.
 
Well, my dad has completely changed thinking, And now has decided that I need to keep the Saab for at least a semester in college. He knows NOTHING about cars and the problems they incur, so making my point is most difficult. I may just save up and buy a used 240 anyway. I kind of want the experience of buying my own car without parental help anyways. So.. Either I'll be stubborn and buy one myself in late July, the Saab will have a massive failure sometime in between now and next january, or I'll have to wait. I love parents. Now, my dad is asking if there's anything that needs to be done to the car before I go off to college, and I'm thinking: "Yeah! A thousand dollars of stuff that needs to be done! it needs two tires, an alignment, new fuel guages and sensors, and a new 6 disc cd player.(It "chews" stuff all the time, it's probably wearing down the battery)

On I-635 the other day it dropped from 70 to 65 on its own without me letting off the accelerator or putting any pressure on the brakes. Is that normal?


It makes very little sense to me to keep a car that is trying to fall apart while it still has some market value. Next January, it will be nearly worthless.

For future references, What should be the "cutoff mileage" for buying a used car? Say I find a Volvo 240 that looks like it left the dealer a week ago, yet it has 180,000 miles. Would it be dumb to even think of buying a car with that many miles on it?
 

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