Project CARS General Discussion Thread

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DrJustice
So that makes all the other sim studios out there incompetent, lazy or intentionally omitting features as they all continue to improve their driving models and other aspect of their sims...


Ah, yes the models will be ripped/stolen and distributed as pirated contents, and even sold for a profit, as we're seeing already, with random copy & paste physics.

Gweezus, what an outlook.
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There is a difference between improvement of driving models over time and having entire features (damage) neutered weeks before release. And yes, most studios creating racing games now are one of those three: PD are incompetent and lazy, Turn10 are lazy and shaft you with DLC, and Kunos are looking like they're more than happy to put out paid DLC, although I can't be sure how badly it'll be priced.
 
When I buy games i never get in with the hype I simply like to read a bit about what I will excpect from the game which I'm doing now. I will go in with an open mind about project cars hoping it is good.
 
So ready for this! Finally a proper racing simulator on PS4! For those enquiring about AI in a race, heres a video that shows a Clio Cup race with the player starting in last, 38 car grid.
 
That sure is well behaving a.i. I read the clip is a bit older footage. Good promo material anyway. I wonder if it was on easier settings.
I'd really like to see the same race with faster race cars and with hard a.i. settings.
Yes, I'm really looking forward the game but a bit worried atm. :nervous:
 
GordonS
That sure is well behaving a.i. I read the clip is a bit older footage. Good promo material anyway. I wonder if it was on easier settings.
I'd really like to see the same race with faster race cars and with hard a.i. settings.
Yes, I'm really looking forward the game but a bit worried atm. :nervous:
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Check that channel's (FailRace) slightly older videos and you'll see a similar event at Oschlersleibenring (or something like that) with GT3 cars. Same AI difficulty (I think it is at 80% or 90%). He says in the Clio video that the AI is faster into the corner but slower out than he is which leads to some very close racing, you also notice the suspension damage on AI cars a few times.
 
iQuacks
I remember a time when developers released games that were, you know, finished! :crazy:
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Project CARS isn't finished, it is technically still in Early Access, till it comes to consoles in March.
 
I was really interested in some of the comments made by Empty Box in his most recently posted video in here.

He spoke of feedback and how it is better than most any other racing title out there, but in the same breath talks of how PCars physics model is slightly lacking compared to the likes or iracing etc.

My question is how can you comment on physics and feedback as separate entities. Surely the most important aspect of a Sim is how it feels to drive? Ergo the way the forces are fed back to you via the physics model. If the feedback in PCars is so good in this regard then it must be the most accurate representation of how it feels to drive a fast csr on a race track surface. Does that bot make it the best sim out there??

Slightly confused
 
Captain Roh
I was really interested in some of the comments made by Empty Box in his most recently posted video in here.

He spoke of feedback and how it is better than most any other racing title out there, but in the same breath talks of how PCars physics model is slightly lacking compared to the likes or iracing etc.

My question is how can you comment on physics and feedback as separate entities. Surely the most important aspect of a Sim is how it feels to drive? Ergo the way the forces are fed back to you via the physics model. If the feedback in PCars is so good in this regard then it must be the most accurate representation of how it feels to drive a fast csr on a race track surface. Does that bot make it the best sim out there??

Slightly confused
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The issue lies in each sim heaving a different feel and a different style of community. Iracing is full of arguably the most hardcore sim racers. I believe they also have to pay for a subscription, tracks and cars aswell. Some please correct if I'm wrong about that point. They also probably have invested a lot in the sim rigs.
So I ask you this
If you have a game that costs for simplicity $100 dollars a year with that you only get seven cars. And a few tracks
You then have to spend 12 dollars for each car and $12-$15 on each track. Now race a few series and for a year or two.
Having spent that much you would need to be convinced it's the best. I couldn't justifiy spending that much. when for 100 dollars you could get a few sims that will have mods or cars in game that provide a similar experience. For a lot less or free.

Having dabbled with Iracing, assetto and some of the older sims. I'm of the opinion I racing isn't worth the cost. I also feel there is sense of elitism with I racing and they tend to look down on anything else that rivals it. Rightly or wrongly sims will be always compared to I racing.

However if you race a lot on I-racing you maybe slightly biased because of the money invested into it.
 
iQuacks
and then??? it still won't be finished. I wasn't having a pop at pCARS, i was just making a JOKE. :crazy:
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A lot of game devs are releasing broken games (Ubisoft). I can't wait til we get back into the swing of releasing working games on time. DLC and online patches ruined that.
 
I remember when games weren't all about the graphics they were the good old days. My favourite racing game was mariokart 64 so much fun on that. Not even a sim :P.
 
Cobra_GT500
I remember when games weren't all about the graphics they were the good old days. My favourite racing game was mariokart 64 so much fun on that. Not even a sim :P.
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My favourite racing game is NFS Hot Pursuit 2. Graphics weren't great but it was a ton of fun.
 
LogiForce
I will post something completely off-topic, however, this thread needs a good laugh.


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Even though I bought a 970 and want to choke someone at NVidia, that was a hilariously funny parody. I'd like to get my hands on the non-subtitled version, it could be useful many, many times:D
 
Willfred_1
The issue lies in each sim heaving a different feel and a different style of community. Iracing is full of arguably the most hardcore sim racers. I believe they also have to pay for a subscription, tracks and cars aswell. Some please correct if I'm wrong about that point. They also probably have invested a lot in the sim rigs.
So I ask you this
If you have a game that costs for simplicity $100 dollars a year with that you only get seven cars. And a few tracks
You then have to spend 12 dollars for each car and $12-$15 on each track. Now race a few series and for a year or two.
Having spent that much you would need to be convinced it's the best. I couldn't justifiy spending that much. when for 100 dollars you could get a few sims that will have mods or cars in game that provide a similar experience. For a lot less or free.

Having dabbled with Iracing, assetto and some of the older sims. I'm of the opinion I racing isn't worth the cost. I also feel there is sense of elitism with I racing and they tend to look down on anything else that rivals it. Rightly or wrongly sims will be always compared to I racing.

However if you race a lot on I-racing you maybe slightly biased because of the money invested into it.
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IRacing is ludicrously expensive. I posted about this in the iRacing.com thread if you want to know more

Also: 1000 Posts!
 
Can I choose which car of a team I want to drive? For example, can I choose whether I want the red Formula A car with the number 1 or number 2?

Also, are the AI drivers always the same ones in the same cars? What I mean is, are there always the same two drivers in the red Formula A cars, for example? Would add to the immersion, trying to beat them every season, and not have them randomly generated every season/single race.
 
Speedy__17
Can I choose which car of a team I want to drive? For example, can I choose whether I want the red Formula A car with the number 1 or number 2?

Also, are the AI drivers always the same ones in the same cars? What I mean is, are there always the same two drivers in the red Formula A cars, for example? Would add to the immersion, trying to beat them every season, and not have them randomly generated every season/single race.
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Pretty sure specific AI uses the same car throughout the season. Not sure how it is in multiple seasons. You can select the desired car number before the start of your career, but I'm not sure if you are guaranteed to get that number on your car.
 
Cool, I thought the numbers were attached to a car. When I get to Formula A, for example, the red cars have numbers 1 and 2 and I can maybe choose one of them. Also, the no. 27 BMW M1 Procar looks great and I love that number. I hope that I can choose anything like that for single races (and custom seasons, still hoping :D) too.
 
@Captain Roh -- Force feedback is what you feel, but the physics engine determines what happens in the game and how the car responds to your input, like when you brake too late and lock up all four wheels or get on the throttle too early coming out of a corner on cold tires.
 
I feel those things in GT6 @Wolfe. I'm confused as to how a different game (I say game because people tend not to want to call GT games 'sim') can more accurately represent this. Thresholds in your examples vary massively, even in real life the same car will feel completely different on two different tyre brands. So which brand feels right? Or correct? I've never understood how a certain physics model can be regarded as better if all the information there is relatively the same. Of course the feeling one likes is highly subjective, and the difference between GT6 and for example, ^ Mario Kart are obvious. But between games with similar representations of accurate real life physics, how do you distinguish?

If I drive an Aston Martin in PCars and it feels like I'm driving a big rig, of course I would concede that the physics were not correct. However as I said before, when comparing relative physics models how could anyone say this or that one was better without the appropriate feedback?

I think ive gone off point because im struggling to wrap this up lol. Basically what I'd like to know is what SMS are doing better than all their competitors in the feedback department, how they're doing it and whether it's a reflection on a good physics model or not.
 
^ I don't think simmers will agree on FFB issues, as in X is better than Y :) What SMS is doing though, is taking the forces that act on the spindle, summing them and transferring them to the rack via the spindle arm and tie rods. This is purely physics based FFB. The FFB system is modular and configurable, and also includes modules to (optionally!) add "Seat of Pants", "Gut" and "Arm" which is basically simulating the effects of the driver having a body that is affected by g-forces and non-rigidity. There are also modules for (optionally!) processing the resulting FFB signal in a few ways, because our wheels have inherent limitations.
 
Wolfe
@Captain Roh -- Force feedback is what you feel, but the physics engine determines what happens in the game and how the car responds to your input, like when you brake too late and lock up all four wheels or get on the throttle too early coming out of a corner on cold tires.
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Actually it's more complicated than that actually.

Technically there is a 'feedback loop' between the ForceFeedback and the Physics.

From the Physics a ForceFeedback signal is calculated (in case of pCARS). That signal gets executed by the ForceFeedback motor. The rotation/movement caused by the motor is sensed by a position sensor. This position sensor feeds new wheel axis position data to the game. That data than gets recalculated in a new angle for the front tyres. Which provokes new Physics responses, which means a new ForceFeedback signal being calculated, etc.

That's kinda the rinse and repeat Feedback Loop of the ForceFeedback system if it works hand in hand with game Physics.
 
LogiForce
Technically there is a 'feedback loop' between the ForceFeedback and the Physics.
...
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Just adding that there is a human inserted in that loop between thee FFB and the position sensor :)

This is therefore what is know as a "Human in the Loop" (HITL) simulation. That human component is unpredictable, sometimes opinionated and argumentative, sometimes lacking in knowledge and experience, having good & bad days etc. :D
 

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