"Ring Taxi" - Tire selection research

What tires for the M5 Ring Taxi in GT6

  • Total voters
    72
Stotty
All good points, but not relevant to this particular discussion - unless ABS continues to have an effect on the car once you're fully off the brakes.

The analysis I posted above includes minimum apex speeds... when the driver has finished trail braking and is in the (usually) short coast phase before picking up the throttle. Mid corner speed is mid corner speed... ABS doesn't play any part in how much speed you can carry at the apex... if you braked earlier (and in a straight line) as per non ABS, you'd run slower lap times, but your mid corner speed would be the same.

Of course using ABS will help reduce lap times as it allows very deep trail braking with little/no fear of the car becoming unstable, just as not using ABS should lengthen lap times due to how rubbish the game is at representing real braking.

But it doesn't change the fact that (in the above analysis at least) SH tyres generate significantly more mid corner lateral grip (in all but the slowest corners) than even a semi slick track day tyre does in real life, never mind a typical fully treaded tyre.

So not subjective and/or opinionated... just factual.

BTW... out of the top 50 drivers in the current Laguna Seasonal event (GT500 on RH), every driver is using ABS.
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You're just diverting now. Irrelevant? Lol. Ok, dude. Irrelevant must mean something different where you live. Every driver is using ABS1 in the Laguna event because of the drop out left and right at the top if the back straight and the crest right before it, where you are braking and veering right. Then downhill to the left, downhill to the right. It is obvious ABS would help on crap pavement or when all four wheels are nearly coming off the ground as you go over the crest, have to let off the brakes fore a split second, etc.

You clearly didn't think about the surfaces at laguna. Watch the next racing TT. Look at the last few. Enough said. Obviously, it is not possible in your mind that you could be wrong, so good luck with your theory. You're answer to that would be "It is not theory! It is fact, I tell you!" I don't think you understand how hard you can push a set a top notch sports tires IRL. I'm not saying it to belittle you, I'm saying it because I think it is clouding your opinion. But, of course, you believe otherwise and that is all that matters.

Some opinions are more outrageous than yours, too. I really don't understand how you can pin it on the tires without watching hex values on all sorts of stuff from the game at the same time. Or having someone else watch. Based on other inaccuracies that seem to parralel grip, IMO it is not tires and I don't have much else to say.
 
How am I diverting?

I posted analysis that clearly demonstrates SH tyres allow a car to carry significantly more mid corner grip in GT6 than tyres such as MPS Cups/Pirelli P Zero Corsas do in real life.

So far, you have chosen to completely ignore the data and simply post your opinions and theories.

So I say again... If you think that ABS somehow affects mid corner grip (when not braking), post the analysis to prove it... I'll be more than happy to change my views.

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Separately;

My current car is a 996 on MPS2. I've driven over 70k miles in it over the past 7 years, including numerous track days. Previously, I've also done single venue tarmac stage rallies in both FWD and RWD cars, gravel rallies in a RWD Manta, and several seasons of karting. I also have experience in single seaters on slicks (FPA, FF), Clio Touring cars on slicks and Caterhams on slicks and semi slicks.

So enough of the patronising 'I've done x in real life' stuff.
 
I don't have to prove anything, just posting my opinion that if you can use racing brakes with ABS on but not ABS off its clearly doing way more than some like to admit. Racing brakes is a big difference. Easier to be consistent is still "easier" and that difference alone is enough, but if people don't want to accept it, no amount of reasoning is going to change that.

Ask any driver about tires and low vs high grip, low grip limits are at slower speeds, the limit is more predictable and easier to recover from passing the limit. High grip limits are at higher speeds, the limit is less predictable and the resulting slide from pasding the limit is harder to recover from. It goes without saying higher limits will net lower lap times, but a skilled driver will be faster than less skilled drivers all the same. Nothing more real about low grip tires with low limits. Its just easier and overall slower. More grip means more reaction to how the car is set up, bad setting with high grip make a bigger difference than bad set ups with low grip so poor tuning is less evident with lower grip.

I agree with anybody who says its hard to hold down low grip tires and still be fast, but its just practicing in an overall slower car and getting used to it. Just because crappy drivers often throw on RS to be "easier" its still much harder for them to keep pace with fast drivers with skill.

Nobody has to use DOT tires, I like to keep them sport on street cars, but nothing wrong with building a street car into an all out race car.
 
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TorqueWrench
I don't have to prove anything, just posting my opinion that if you can use racing brakes with ABS on but not ABS off its clearly doing way more than some like to admit. Racing brakes is a big difference. Easier to be consistent is still "easier" and that difference alone is enough, but if people don't want to accept it, no amount of reasoning is going to change that.

Ask any driver about tires and low vs high grip, low grip limits are at slower speeds, the limit is more predictable and easier to recover from passing the limit. High grip limits are at higher speeds, the limit is less predictable and the resulting slide from pasding the limit is harder to recover from. It goes without saying higher limits will net lower lap times, but a skilled driver will be faster than less skilled drivers all the same. Nothing more real about low grip tires with low limits. Its just easier and overall slower. More grip means more reaction to how the car is set up, bad setting with high grip make a bigger difference than bad set ups with low grip so poor tuning is less evident with lower grip.

I agree with anybody who says its hard to hold down low grip tires and still be fast, but its just practicing in an overall slower car and getting used to it. Just because crappy drivers often throw on RS to be "easier" its still much harder for them to keep pace with fast drivers with skill.

Nobody has to use DOT tires, I like to keep them sport on street cars, but nothing wrong with building a street car into an all out race car.
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Whether it's true or not, what does that have to do with the discussion on which tyres are a more realistic representation of the real tyres fitted to the Ring Taxi?
 
I think the issue is in performance of the vehicle and using tires to offset the difference IMO is not the way to go.

If the cars accelerates too fast, & hit's too high a top speed, ballast and power limiter will easily pull this back in line. Then you can drive with the right tires for realistic grip.

Always keeping abs off to test the grip of the tires not how good the GT6 braking system can "assist" grip levels, tire temps and related loads in a critical section of the corner. Any changes at any point affects the rest of the corner from that point, braking into a corner is the start, mid corner and exit are all after.. Tire temp, and related grip and loads will be different when the brake pedal is lifted so when the assist stops, the starting point is different. So are grip levels in the rest of the corner.

How can you test grip while grip levels are diluded through the entire corner?
 
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True to a certain extent, but ABS 0 isn't a barrier to running the same lap times as ABS 1... much like DS3 vs using a wheel, it can be done, it just requires more skill.

Irrespective of lap times and whatever brakes you're using, mid corner grip remains higher than with SH than RL semi slick track day tyres.
 
Stotty
True to a certain extent, but ABS 0 isn't a barrier to running the same lap times as ABS 1... much like DS3 vs using a wheel, it can be done, it just requires more skill.

Irrespective of lap times and whatever brakes you're using, mid corner grip remains higher than with SH than RL semi slick track day tyres.
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That all true. It can be done.Its not a given though that everybody can match times IMO, but often it seems like some off as such, like if an ABS-1 time is made, all it takes is a few more laps to match it abs off. Some will, some won't IMO.

But for the time spent testing any type of authenticity don't you think we should strip away any thing that will impact grip, when testing grip, feel, GT6 vs real whatever it may be?

Once testings done use whatever you like and feel comfortable with, abs is there because not everybody has endless hours to chase lap times and in the end it doesn't add grip just helps maintain the grip you have.
 
TorqueWrench
That all true. It can be done.Its not a given though that everybody can match times IMO, but often it seems like some off as such, like if an ABS-1 time is made, all it takes is a few more laps to match it abs off. Some will, some won't IMO.

But for the time spent testing any type of authenticity don't you think we should strip away any thing that will impact grip, when testing grip, feel, GT6 vs real whatever it may be?

Once testings done use whatever you like and feel comfortable with, abs is there because not everybody has endless hours to chase lap times and in the end it doesn't add grip just helps maintain the grip you have.
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The problem with ABS vs no ABS is neither is realistic.

ABS gives added stability under braking, and with no ABS the brakes lock far too easily.

I can run as fast with no ABS if I put the laps in, but the level of concentration required over a full lap of the 'Ring makes it much more difficult.
 
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Stotty
The problem with ABS vs no ABS is neither is realistic.

ABS gives added stability under braking, and with no ABS brakes the lock far too easily.

I can run as fast with no ABS if I put the laps in, but the level of concentration required over a full lap of the 'Ring makes it much more difficult.
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No argument with that, the Ring has made me lose my voise a few times, especially 6 or 7 min into the lap:banghead:🤬
 
Stotty
The problem with ABS vs no ABS is neither is realistic.

ABS gives added stability under braking, and with no ABS the brakes lock far too easily.
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I agree 100%

I hate that they call it ABS, It doesnt at all represent how ABS works. Same thing with TCS it is nowhere near realistic.

I hate using it because it's so unrealistic, But driving with out the ABS is also unreal.


However,...

TorqueWrench
But for the time spent testing any type of authenticity don't you think we should strip away any thing that will impact grip, when testing grip, feel, GT6 vs real whatever it may be?
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I definitley agree with this. ABS 1 Is further from realistic than ABS 0.
So, When testing actual Grip its best not to have ABS on.
 
The base data is Horst Von Saurma for Aportauto (German car magazine). The GT6 data is taken from Sutuki's replay.

Whilst speed trap times on the straights may vary due to where the speed is logged I am not disagreeing that cars are too fast in GT6. However, minimum corner speeds are directly comparable.

The data is solid. The analysis is valid.

Again... post something to back up your opinions/theories.
 
I chose Comfort: Soft

I remember that M5's use Michellin Pilot Sport, something along those lines. These are high performance sport tyres which uses similar tread and compound mixture likes a semi slick but with more tread to improve water displacement (unlike semi slicks) and so I think Comfort: Soft would be a the best in - game counterpart to that.
 
Stotty
The base data is Horst Von Saurma for Aportauto (German car magazine). The GT6 data is taken from Sutuki's replay.

Whilst speed trap times on the straights may vary due to where the speed is logged I am not disagreeing that cars are too fast in GT6. However, minimum corner speeds are directly comparable.

The data is solid. The analysis is valid.

Again... post something to back up your opinions/theories.
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That is not solid or valid. That would take far, far less variables to hold true.

I'm going by experience, which I've mentioned. No one can prove it with tangible evidence. Not without the same driver for his skill and lines, speed traps spot on, etc. You may as well be comparing two different cars, otherwise. Not going back and forth with you anymore. It is a waste of my time.
 
Not sure what else you expect me to say.

I show you data, you argue against it by posting how you 'feel'... this is much like a discussion with my wife - no logic, no data, just emotions :lol:
 
Stotty
Not sure what else you expect me to say.

I show you data, you argue against it by posting how you 'feel'... this is much like a discussion with my wife - no logic, no data, just emotions :lol:
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Data. Haha. Data ≠ right or accurate. Whatever you say, dude. Like I said, not arguing. You never think you're wrong anyways.
 
If I inferred in my OP that I thought whatever tire was 'not accurate' due to purely the lap time I apologize. In my studying of video footage I was looking more at the way the car cornered than actual lap times. All I was saying is that if I can cut more than 30sec off of a lap while using no curbs, on a DS3 (with which I suck), with no aids my bet is that I have too much grip. Doesn't mean that can't be wrong. From what I've seen of how the cars act/react in corners my personal 'feeling' was that the CM provided the closest match.

Comparing lap times in 'Ring Taxi' videos would be useless as #1 there are passengers in the car you need to get from Bridge to Gantry without motion sickness, injury, or death. #2 the rides are only from Bridge to Gantry for the most part. #3 traffic. #4 repairs and slow areas.
 
What should the ring taxi be doing for a lap time? The E60, of course. I'm going to give this a go and see what it does initially and takes to bring to spec.
 
The only thing I know is that I have seen and heard that they were at one time restricted to 8:30.000 or slower. There isn't really a set time.

Keep in mind as well that I do not so much as brush a single millimeter of curb, grass, or dirt on these runs. Really the only place that the Taxis seem to do it is at Wipperman (I think that's the section name)
 
Ok so we now have a verified tire as the Michellin Pilot Super Sport.

Now I guess the debate begins over what will somewhat represent this tire. Being that the tread pattern is far from semi-slick I am not at all apt to call it a SH.

What I'm really trying to figure out now is do the current results of this pole show that most people want it to be CS because there is no option for SH, CM are too difficult to drive on, or people just really believe that CS most accurately depicts the grip levels of this particular tire.

Another factor that's been brought up here that should perhaps be discussed as well is whether or not GT tracks themselves have more grip than in real life. Thus causing some of us to constantly downgrade the tires to attempt to compensate for the additional grip in the track.
 
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smskeeter23
Ok so we now have a verified tire as the Michellin Pilot Sport.

Now I guess the debate begins over what will somewhat represent this tire. Being that the tread pattern is far from semi-slick I am not at all apt to call it a SH.
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It's the Super Sport. This is a completely different tire.
 
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This is just speculation but i think when PD has modled the cars they neglected to account for the 15 to 25 % that is due to drive line loss. I have found from trying to make replicas of certain cars that the horse power numbers to torque numbers don't line up in certain cars. In order to get them to match advertised numbers I've had to subtract 15 to 25 % to get the numbers to line up properly. This could explain why top speeds and lap times are faster than in real life.
 
holtzy08si
This is just speculation but i think when PD has modled the cars they neglected to account for the 15 to 25 % that is due to drive line loss. I have found from trying to make replicas of certain cars that the horse power numbers to torque numbers don't line up in certain cars. In order to get them to match advertised numbers I've had to subtract 15 to 25 % to get the numbers to line up properly. This could explain why top speeds and lap times are faster than in real life.
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If that be the case it would not be that "PD neglected" to account for drive line loss, but instead mean that PD uses crank power not power at the wheel. Just Saying
 

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